current range of strikers is simply not enough

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by VeryCoolMiller, Sep 24, 2018.

  1. HippoCryties

    What server are you playing on?!! At least every 5 minutes I find either a good player with a pump or noob who just sprays with a mauler and kills lots of mans. Shotguns are pathetic and at least IMO take no skill to use, especially the spamming ones like Thanatos and mauler.
  2. VeryCoolMiller


    I had to use a shotgun for the LA directive and i confirm that the 800 kills I had to do with a shotgun have been a pain.

    On the other hand I enjoyed any carbine for the carbine directive...

    I can simply confirm that i don't consider shotguns competitive and , indeed , only a small amount of ppl use shotguns on Miller (a freaking try hard server).

    cool videos btw...
  3. Demigan

    Does that even matter? If you look at the actual usage stats, shotguns are at best used as much as one weapon category (Carbines for example, or SMG's) although it's more like "almost keeping up" than "used as much". In the meantime shotguns are available on more classes and a unique weapon system compared to automatics of which we have several variations (SMG, Carbine, LMG, AR, certain Scout Rifles). And they are supposed to be cheese weapons? Where is it's user base? Where are the shotgun users?
  4. C0smos

    This thread was about the striker , then many trolls and shotguns tryharders came to the party
  5. Demigan

    I tell one guy how it is and half a dozen people reply to that same post. I have the decency to give a single reply to all of them. So far the anti-shotgun crowd who's been insulting me (and anyone else supporting shotguns) has been the spammers and trolls.
  6. TobiMK

    At this point honestly I have kind of lost track of this conversation. I think I've iterated my stance a few times now, but I'll give it one last attempt at clarification I guess.
    You still have to actually move your crosshair onto an enemy's head and track them accordingly. Bursting also remains necessary to keep your Cone Of Fire in check. With shotguns in the same scenario, your one requirement is to place the Cone of the Shotgun onto the enemy's body, which as you know is vastly bigger than the crosshair for automatics, i.e. dot vs circle. Yes, you do have the random COF on shotguns, but that is a good thing. If that didn't exist, shotguns would literally devolve into a point-and-click game where missing becomes virtually impossible.

    The point of these events is to have a competitive and balanced experience between the teams. Generally a competition doesn't work well with low skill playstyles, those defeat said goal of having a competition about skill.

    Some playstyles and weapons in this game are, for the sake of these formats, overpowered. MAXes and shotguns come to mind the most. Other things are (obviously) vehicles. Also banned are motion detection tools.

    Also don't forget that having MAXes and shotguns in such a format simply isn't fun. Nobody wants to die because somebody vaguely pointed their weapon at you and instagibs you. The goal is to outplay your opponent with superior skill, and thus having less frustrated deaths.

    My main gripe remains on shotguns and their imbalance. Ambushers simply enable the shotgun user to apply even less skill than already necessary to their playstyle.

    Neither really, LMGs are worse than most other guns and HA has been nerfed repeatedly.

    Not sure where you got this from. I do not enjoy playing shotguns, because I am aware that it
    1. is extremely frustrating for my enemy
    2. serves me no purpose except to cheese on my enemies
    3. is a nerf to myself as long as I apply a modicum of skill and handle my automatic guns.

    A "competent" player using shotguns is often even worse, yes. But the problem lies with any shotgun player. Our perspectives here are different, that is why we talk past each other. From my perspective, someone snuck/flew/walked up to me, and then proceeds to insta-kill me, without leaving me a chance of retaliation. Now this would be less of an issue if shotgun players actually applied good positioning and movement, because that is actually predictable. But the average shotgun player sticks to a 1 Kill -> 1 Death playstyle, where all their actions are just set up on rushing somewhere and then relying on the OHK nature of their weapon to receive any kills at all. This wouldn't actually be possible with an automatic gun. This is the big problem I have with shotguns.

    As explained above, hardly any shotgun user actually makes use of these skills. It's much more of a suicide playstyle, rather than one focused on sustained engagements. And that makes it so frustrating to the receiving end.
  7. TobiMK

    That is demonstrably false, and you yourself just gave the evidence. If your statement were true, shotguns, snipers and MAXes would be the most used weapons/equipment in the game. But in reality it's LMGs/Carbines/ARs/whatever.
  8. TobiMK

    I can get fully behind you if you simply don't enjoy shotguns, neither do I. But your statement about shotguns being useless was simply false. And since I had seen some previous stuff of yours (e.g. saying that TR is underpowered), I was somewhat skeptical.
  9. Demigan

    Actually this is where the smart people get to yhe conclusion that MAX's while powerful in the right situation are very niche, and rarely used outside of enclosed area's. Snipers arent the right kind of cheese, they take too much patience and affect the battle too little to be enjoyable, its far easier to buy a tank and use that, or use a HA with LMG or rocket primary instead of sniping. Sure theres more risk, but also a faster reward and less positioning and capabilities required. I've covered the shotgun already.

    Even if what you said were true, you still have to come with a viable reason why so few use shotguns. While you are at it you can try to invent reasons why MAX's and snipers arent used that often either. I'm sure you have some kind of insult or twisted reality ready to avoid having to come up with an actual answer just like you did now.
  10. HippoCryties

    Didn’t mean to offend you, I’m trying to discuss here.... sorry if I did
  11. HippoCryties

    I seem to always find these br 4 with the mauler which just shreds in CQC(as it should) . TBH shotguns are kinda ridiculous in this game, the pump shotguns are in a good place, but those spam shotguns, need to be fixed IMO
  12. Demigan

    The redaction has been asked to make a correction on the article of 29/09/2018 at 10:45. It said "So far the anti-shotgun crowd who's been insulting me (and anyone else supporting shotguns) has been the spammers and trolls". This erroneously made some people who did not insult the author think that they were also part of the spammers and trolls. We offer our apologies and hope that future articles will be clearer.

    I think you are running up against confirmation bias. You will often miss how many times you killed that same BR4 or other shotgun wielders. The fact that you don't seem to see any high BR players wielding shotguns is also a clue that there's something wrong under the hood of shotguns that makes people not want to use it.

    Also most people will idolise the pump action, the auto shotgun or the Baron, apparently I'm one of the few who actually enjoys the semi-auto shotguns for what they offer (mostly big magazines).
    • Up x 1
  13. Demigan

    I just watched this video and good god the guy really doesn't know what he's talking about.

    First of all, his "list". He forgets that shotguns also have COF and that if you for example jump down from somewhere (quite common on the LA which uses shotguns the most) that your COF is going to be so large you'll be missing shots at 5m distance even at perfect aim. Try it in Koltyr or on the live server.

    He also forgets to add in values. An automatic barely needs any positional skill. Any cover can be used, and even if you aren't at your ideal range an automatic can still be used against your opponent. A long-range LMG can be used in CQC, and a CQC Carbine or even an SMG can be used at range, although at a disadvantage compared to a weapon designed for it. A shotgun user can't use cover to fire from, and can only use cover to attempt to get close. This puts a far higher skill requirement on the player both in situational awareness and capability to get into range of opponents as a shotgun can't compensate for being engaged outside of it's ideal range. The same for things like COF control and crosshair placement. A perfect shot on the body with a Carbine is almost guaranteed to deal full damage, while a shotgun can easily miss pellets.

    The guy also assumes the shotgun can OHK, which is only possible with the pump-actions and no longer with the semi-auto's which used to be able to OHK with a headshot within knifing range (2m already had too high an RNG to get pellets off-target).

    He also calls using a shotgun dumb and idiotic, even though he admits himself that an automatic can be just as powerful in CQC as the shotgun. He also fails to realize that shotguns require more skill as it's not just "be in CQC and you win!".


    Here's some actual information:
    http://iridar.net/planetside2/weapons/shotguns/

    Especially check out this part:
    http://iridar.net/planetside2/weapons/shotguns/#Playstyle

    And the two little youtube clips in there. Iridar is far from a bad player, and the clips show how even for a good player shotguns aren't in any way, shape or form auto-win guns. It also shows exactly what I'm talking about: If you don't aim perfectly for the enemies center too many shots will miss. In the meantime an automatic can be just held with the trigger (as seen with the opponents in the clip) and you'll hit enough shots for a kill eventually. This would make the automatics dumber and more idiotic as per the idea of the guy in the movie, who assumes that a weapon that requires less skill to operate is idiotic and stupid.


    I say, get a shotgun, get good with those. If you can be good with a shotgun and regularily get close enough to kill someone you are learning the important situational awareness and movement capabilities to get your automatic weapons game far higher.
  14. Demigan

    Watching this video, the guy doesn't know anything.

    Tl: dr:

    He victimshames anyone with shotguns, the only stats he provides are wrong, claims a shotgun user he has it out for uses only opinionated claims while hypocritically only using half-based opinions himself and cant even keep a straight argument, such as claiming shotguns teach you nothing and immediately saying shotguns are like training wheels for the game. He also fails to see that players that adapt and outplay him even if he knows they are there are using skill simply because the skill does not involve headshotting.

    Long version:

    He starts with showing a clip of an OP shotgun from another game, while stating how much faster a shotgun kills in CQC.
    First of all, a shotgun is supposed to kill faster in CQC. Just like a CQC Carbine or LMG is supposed to kill faster in CQC than their long-range counterparts. This is what we call "design".
    Second, he states that PS2 shotguns kill 400% faster. Previously the best any non-pump action could achieve without headshots was a two-shot kill. The automatic shotgun (which couldn't do a 2-shot kill unless you had headshots if I recall correctly) would have a 2-shot kill TTK of 0,23 seconds assuming all shots hit and you are in kissing distance. This is nowhere near the 400% faster TTK boasted by this person.

    He then goes on basically bashing a single shotgun user, as if that means anything? I could just as easily pick on some semi-known automatic weapon player and claim automatics are (I'm paraphrasing now:) "for idiots". The rant holds no value.

    Getting within close range and then having an advantage does mean the weapon does the work for you. But what the person in the video does not understand is that when you pick a CQC Carbine/LMG/AR/SMG or a long-range Carbine/LMG/AR/Sniper that you also let the weapon do the work for you. Knowing your weapon, it's effects, it's recoil, it's ammo count, it's reload, it's COF etc etc is part of the game! You play based on the weapon you pick! If you are engaged by a mid-range carbine at mid-range distance while holding a shotgun, did the mid-range carbine user win because he was better or because his weapon did the work for him? The entire argument "your weapon did the work for you so it doesn't count" breaks down at the lightest introspection, but even that introspection is too much for some people against shotguns it seems.

    The person in the video also misses the idea that you can beat a shotgun user not by picking another CQC weapon, but by engaging the enemy when he's in an ideal range for you. IE midrange, long range, the bit of CQC before shotguns become useful. Or even any range before the shotgun gets useful as even the worst CQC SMG/Carbine can be used effectively before the shotgun can.

    He laments that a shotgun killed him in CQC "before his 4rth shot", which is weird as you can fire more shots before a shotgun as just about every single weapon has a higher ROF than 520, with a few noteable long-range exceptions you shouldn't be using in CQC anyway. So the shotgun user both surprised him or the headshotter would have fired more than 4 bullets, and remember the headshotter heard the shotgunner and knew he was there!!!! And the shotgunner adapted to his opponent and decided to not play his game where the headshotter wins. That's intelligent, skillful play to outplay your enemy, especially when you can surprise your enemy even though he knows you are there.

    The person also makes the statement that "every capture room is shotgun range", try and measure that for once and see how absolutely wrong that statement is.

    Dying to a shotgun should have taught him that each weapon has their ideal range, and that enemies can surprise him even if he knows they are there, and that if you are in a CQC environment with an opponent that he won some battles from that his opponent might adapt and change his tactics so that this time he'll win. But that there are more skills than headshotting is too much for him to handle.

    He also targets his opponent and says "he didn't want to learn an easy to use, hard to master weapon". Except that the guy already had two engagements with him while holding an automatic and lost. The shotgunner saw there was no reason to continue that path and adapted by wielding a shotgun and getting in CQC because he knew how his opponent was playing. The person of the video is trying to victimshame, to make his opponent seem bad just because the person of the video had his pride hurt.

    He talks about false equivelancy, but hypocritically has been using this constantly to justify himself.

    He continues with the usual insults, and makes broad generalizations like "the majority just mindlessly mashes W and Shift until they get close enough". Considering how the game is played this is an impossible method to win. You can't just run straight at enemies and get a kill with a shotgun, you'll be dead before you get in a good range. If you do manage to get in a good range you can't kill them fast enough to win anyway unless your opponents are in the dummy squad (similar to his "high skill" portion of the video where he's fighting dummies that barely return fire and don't react to him doing the exact same thing a couple of times).

    "Why use positioning and audio cue's when you can use a motion spotter and never get better at the game" good god that was funny. Shotguns are required to used positioning and audio cue's to win, it's their primary attribute.

    How can the guy be this dense? He laments shotguns for being automatic wins in CQC, but then goes on and says "why would I use a shotgun when I can't kill people at range with it, which I can with any automatic". So what he's saying is that what a shotgun can do in CQC, he can do with other weapons at other ranges? Why is using a shotgun then a problem? Especially since you need more skill and situational awareness to actually get into engagement range. It's so weird to see this guy claim all skill, while he gets by on purely headshotting with particular weapons and does not have the skill or insight to make shotguns feel skillful. He can't even see that he is the one that can't adapt to a shotgun, while claiming that people who he beat multiple times in a row should "just learn" to be as good as him. Why and how would they do that right then and there? Why wouldn't they just... adapt to the situation? If there's a player who is more skilled than you in a particular field, you try to find a skill and field you can beat him in. IE surprising a guy who thinks he's superior despite that he already knows you are there.

    Even at the end of his video he can't keep it straight. "Never use shotguns they hold you back and you don't learn anything", followed by "they are like training wheels!". Are you kidding me? Training wheels are perfect for learning how to ride a bike! Also I would suggest anyone who picks up this game to start with shotguns as they learn you more about the game's layout, positioning and situational awareness than any other weapon, and it'll make learning the rest of the game so damn much easier.
    • Up x 2
  15. OgreMarkX

    Umm this thread was about Strikers not shotguns.

    Why not change the Striker to fire a five round burst of actual shotguns? Not slugs or buckshot, the actual shotguns, flying out of the Striker?
  16. HippoCryties

    Meh maybe but I think if u ask the guys that run with me. They’ll tell you that shotguns are just dominating for some reason, I don’t know why. I’d say 20% of my deaths in a session are from cheesy br 2s with maulers or maxes. It’s kinda ruining the game for me at this point. Now you bring up the baron, how tf u use that thing xD. It’s sooooooo bad
  17. OgreMarkX


    Hi, I am not great at shotguns but am going thru the auraxiums to get the always subpar directive variant (HAHAHAHAHA TR BUTCHER LMG HAHAHAHAHAHAHA).

    I auraxiumed the Baron.

    It's a short-mid range gun, it's not that great close up, damage is too low. Take aim via down sight use and hope to get a few hits. It was far easier to auraxium the NS Baron than the TR version it copied (and of course improved on), the Barrage.
  18. adamts01

    I don't know when the Swarm buff was, but on the receiving end it's just as worthless today as it was a year ago, at least from the seat of my ESF. You fly towards the missiles, then turn around and fly past them again, then they expire. I really think that thing should get the Striker mechanic so that all factions can have access to a decent AA launcher.


    That's a good point, but the same exact case could be made against ramming EDF, Decimator primaries, suicide anti-personell infils, most knife primaries, C4 flashes, and suicide C4 fairies. Like all those things, shotguns also have legit uses. And like other guys have said, they're not competitive, so if anything I think a buff is in order. Their double RNG needs to go, and I think they could use a little more min damage range.
    • Up x 1
  19. Campagne

    How can you always winge about being such a victim without having the slightly bit of information to base your beliefs on?

    All infantry shotguns are identical with the sole exception of the Brawler. The Barrage is exactly the same as the Mauler and the Thanatos. NS weapons aren't "copying" TR weapons.
  20. OgreMarkX


    Probitas laudatur et alget.