[Vehicle] Curious to everyone's thoughts on A2G

Don't like to toot my own horn or inb4 wow ah scrub, I meant the default nosegun. Because AI noseguns are generally just a downgrade.

Not really, you get outdpsed even by the locust guns, they were nerfed pretty hard so that they weren't CQ A2A anymore, tbh I didn't mind it, but hey, maybe they'll get buffed against aircraft because no one should feel at a severe disadvantage just for picking a different nosegun.

As I've said before, you can chastise the general playerbase as much as you want.
It changes nothing, though.

I know that.

I also know prospective players look at these forums. It is up to someone to show that for every hater, there is a player. I will do it.

I'm sorry to say, but not only is this forum not a good sampling of the general playerbase, but I have a feeling that very few players come here before they download a free game. A tiny number will come here after playing a bit (usually to vent their rage about something like air), and an even tinier number will stay here for any extended period of time.
Besides, remember that your opinion is just one of many here, all of which are equally valid from another's perspective. From my perspective: If air in its current state really is detrimental to player retention, why do you stay here defending it? So that prospective players will see your posts and be convinced that everything's hunky-dory? What's the point? You're cutting off your nose in spite of your face; trying to lure players to the game by defending an aspect that drives players away. It makes no sense.

Let me show you what skill is in AA. If any of you ever enjoyed Battlefield Bad Company 2 you will know of this. It's a rocket launcher that is completely hand guided to its target no lock assistance or anything. Purely user skill and spatial awareness:

I use to do this and was damned one of the most satisfying things you could do in the game. Nowadays people just want easy mode mind numbing mechanics to do all the work for them, because lets face it the human population is just getting stupider/lazier/more entitled as time progresses and its apparent in every facet of life all the way down to the games we play.

Anywho give people something thats high skill that guarantees a kill and a sense of pride as one previous poster said. (They will still whine after failing to use it effectively within the first 5 min though)

And what do they use this team work for?
At best, nuking zergs, and saying "I need to see a little more left"

The fact that you need to use 'teamwork' on the ground against every single aircraft, just to have a chance...
While aircraft do not need teamwork when fighting any ground force.

Rather than hide it in riddles, I state the obvious.
Every pilot seems to say "get a group", or "Fly"
Yet you don't see this logic against any MBT, or land target... its never a Teamwork-required-job.
Aircraft? Either team up against solo aircraft that can appear like magic, or Fly.
Tanks? Enough options exist, AV weapons actually work, and you don't need 1/4th a squad per tank.
And that is a 2-man vehicle.

The few times I've been in an air ground, or even had aircraft coordinate, was zergs, the rare squad pilot or similar.
No where near the 'required' in-the-field Coordination stated to be needed against the solo ESFs.
Which is pretty ****** up; The smallest aircraft requires more coordination & people than the heaviest land vehicle, to even engage.
And that's to engage, not kill.

Only aircraft have all of this work, to discourage rather than kill.
Land vehicles? It is always Kill.

Now that is a nice weapon.
And nice video.

66% of your problems with Air are caused by the 84.9% of Players who will never, under any circumstances, Look Up Shoot Up.

I'm just going to throw this out here. Partly a shameless plug. Partly to troll on y'all. Partly also to contribute my routine perspective:

THIS. Most people in this game only want to play in their tunnel vision and not think and observe threats in 3D.

I would love a launcher like this in the game. Requires aim, but can OHK stuff.

Stop, stop, stop. Don't speak for other people on your own. I for one never asked for lock-ons and they annoy me for various reasons while I know they're necessary.

What comes closest to this in PS2 is the Phoenix but that allows being launched from behind cover, guess why:
There's no time, like in your vid, to stand around in the open for that long without becoming a tank's or sniper's target or of someone randomly dropping by. Usually you have around 1s to peek and shoot at a target with an unguided RPG.
Skill with unguided RPGs DOES exist. Proof of this are Decimator hits on ESFs or Libs or other unguided hits on cloaked Flashes or random Harassers and Sunderers passing by or on any stationary targets, even at a higher distance. So people aren't completely rêtarded at handling these but due to unguided RPG projectiles being extremely ballistic and slow their effective range is very low on moving targets and that's why lock-ons are needed: To counter mobility. Doesn't work for cover, though.

Keep in mind PS2 also has this nasty screenshake mechanic, something unique to it, and how hard that would make it to keep aiming precisely on that target.
Also your vid shows an instakill on an air unit while that'd translate to handguided Decimators for PS2.

So all in all: Please spare us the entitlement speech and look at the game mechanics.

Exhibit A

Any questions?

If only ground based AA was as effective at killing aircraft as trees are...

Im a pilot myself and i find the A2G aronde 2 it can be pretty hard to see inf now at night its almost impossible and they see you coming at render distence, i understand that a nerf was needed but you pretty much took a baseballbat to fix a lose screw, and with lockons on evey hill its turned into beeping the game,

Yeah! They only want easymode! Thats why the most complained about systems like G2A are super-hardmode! And that players who have it easymode in the air will ask for anyrhing to keep that hardmode because its so healthy for the airgame and totally not in their own interest!

I absolutely agree.

As it stands now aircaft has absolutely domination on all medium / small fights, because the only reliable counter to aircraft is... more aircraft. Aircraft has the power to screw any small fight. Any player pretending to change the battle using G2A is just a fool, in the best case scenario aircraft will leave for a while and will be back in a few minutes.

Even the Skyguard, marketed as "Powerful AA cannon" just tickles aircraft. ESFs are fast enought to fly away before exploding, even if engaged from very close range. Liberators are so tanky they can slowly go away to get repair, or even turning to the Skyguard and annihilate it in a 2 shots.

As to the original question at the start of the post, it's not a perfect situation but it's in a comfortable-enough spot that I don't think it needs heavy investigating or reworking. Yes, good pilots are gonna mop up some sweet beps (I'm dating myself with that term, that's EXP for those of you that don't walk around with a cane yet), but the same is true of good anythings, really.

From a few replies I've seen, it feels like a lot of what causes this apparent unbalance issue comes from a lack of incentive in warding off air (the phrase "nerfing self by carrying AA" came up at some point). The payoff for being a good pilot is a lot better than shooing away good pilots, at least from a numerical standpoint, and unfortunately that's the driving matter for doing anything in this game where the majority (not -you-, the other guy, of course) is more invested in 'farming' than 'winning'. Air Deterrence bonuses were a nice start, but it's not going to make player Joe Schmo put down his medic tool or look away from his scope, even if it meant helping the team as a whole.

Without wishing to derail OP's simple question, it's less a matter of game balance right now as it is motivating players to protect others from enemy aircraft, as serving one's self over the good of your faction seems to be the norm in the current mindset. Increasing Air Deterrence bonuses COULD be a solution, as it means more people will be doing it more often, but it's a matter of fine-tuning the sweet spot, as too much incentive means everyone will be doing it and that's no fun for the pilots.

In short: Look up every now and then; if you see something that's not your faction color up there, don't assume someone else has spotted it and will deal with it.

Air Deterrence bonuses are comic...
How much do you think they'd had to be buffed, when aircraft can get a killing streak off of Killing AA more easily than they get the ribbons..

You only deter the aircraft from continuing the destruction of allies, for brief moments.
Either it'll be back moments later, with your general location known, with the knowledge of how many AA units are generally present, or just avoid your likely angle of attack if it won't just kill you.

And all the while, to do this, you make yourself a target to not just the aircraft that can kill you faster even in a Tank, but to everything on the ground, which unlike the AA units you are, has their full killing power against their proper target:
AI effectively Kills infantry.
AV effectively Kills vehicles, can effectively engage infantry.
AA can deter aircraft, and scratches other targets.

The glory of thinking that all it takes is aiming up, is forgetting said aircraft can handle everything short of a Dumb-fire or AP shell at close-quarters that can be fired at it, and still kill an entire group before that hits.

Unless destroyed, the enemy loses no resources, no time, learns more about the force, and can strike again.
This is why infantry are Killed and vehicles destroyed not deterred.
You cost the enemy nothing but few more souls it could've claimed.
Destroy it, and the enemy has to pay the price again & the time it takes to travel back.
Which is short enough for aircraft without simply surviving dedicated AA.

Those that think flying is easy don't do it.

Those that won't participate in anti-air efforts will get what's coming.

Those who die to air enough to think it's a problem are doing something very wrong.

It's not that simple. It's more time efficient to die and either get revived or re-spawn than to stop the ground push to engage air which you can't kill anyway. And say you did manage to land a Decimator hit on an ESF, if they have Indar then all you did was save them from flying back to reload. If vehicles and infantry weren't spammable or if ground could fight back with the same efficiency as air, then things would be different. As it is, just roll the dice and chances are you'll get through the Lol-pods to the objective.