[Suggestion] Crouch cooldown?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Terrince, Mar 7, 2021.

  1. Terrince

    Greetings all!

    So I'm sure most of us have come across a crouch spammer bounc'in like a spring!
    Do we want a crouch cooldown at all?
    What's the best time if we want one?

    A easy counter is to aim for the chest, they crouch right into your fire for a headshot. Though some spammers go so fast you don't get hits and aiming for the legs or lower is not an option.
    Any other way to counter the spamming?
    • Up x 5
  2. RabidIBM

    Widen the firing cone while un-crouching?
    • Up x 4
  3. Demigan

    The solution has been in the game for years: To prevent bunny-hopping the game deliberately slows your character down if you jump too much per second. Additionally your COF increases in size if you are airborne too long.

    Similarly if you crouch on average more than 3 times per second, you are definitely trying to crouch-spam and bug out the game's netcode. So why don't we place similar restrictions on crouching?
    While we are at it, do the same with strafing. You change direction more than 3 times per second (or something similar) you are using the latency netcode to make yourself harder to hit (even if you might not know that you are doing it). Having something in place that prevents this is vital for a fair and enjoyable gameplay.
    Ofcourse the people who've been using these kinks in the system won't find it as enjoyable, but if they are as good as they think themselves to be they can adapt.
    • Up x 2
  4. NotsiMadz

    some do it so that if you are aiming for the head, you miss the head. I don't see any issue with that, except maybe it looks really dumb.

    The real issue (for me) is if done in a certain way (2 very fast crouches) it :

    1. messes up hit detection, so even if you're aiming right at the guy, your bullets don't hit the guy

    but the "real" real issue isn't that either.

    2. the "real" real issue is that it boosts the crouching player's ability to shoot. Whether it's accuracy or his or her hit detection (I think both)

    Basically, you shoot in bursts, as you normally do, and due to the game mechanic, not due to how you're aiming, your bullets will hit and miss the target. Tapping crouch two times really fast makes you hit the target when you normally would miss.

    Most players using this exploit will use it at the end, as a "finisher". It's not to avoid being hit. You're tapping crouch so fast you're instantly back in the same position, so any opponent shooting at your head will hit your head anyway.

    3. crouch combos. You can combine crouching and adadadadad (obviously). Some use macros.

    I don't have a problem with trying to avoid being hit by crouching or moving, I find that perfectly normal. Appart from the exploit, I think however that moving and crouching should make it more difficult for you to shoot. It does, a bit, but not enough imo. Spamming crouch and adaadadadad should make your character shoot with less accuracy.
  5. Liewec123

    As rabid says, if the COF was maxed while getting in/out of crouch then people wouldn't be able to spam it. :)
  6. Pelojian

    it's too late, they aren't gonna fix it.
    they are focusing on adding stuff to keep people playing rather then fix core issues, they'll keep doing this as the game slowly bleeds to death.
  7. MonnyMoony

    Crouch spam and ADAD spam should both bloom your COF massively (much as jumping does) - but as the poster above says, this is never going to be fixed.

    There are tons of quality of life fixes that could be implemented that are exploited relentlessly by sweaty try-hards, yet here we are over 8 years on and they still exist (probably because many of the devs who play use exactly these exploits themselves).
  8. JibbaJabba

    Crouch spam is for noobs. It only works on people even more nooby.

    Animated GIF - Find & Share on GIPHY

    If you see someone doing this crap, just center shot them and depending on range also consider throwing in a juke (sprint, 90 to oneside, then 90 back) as they are going to have a really bloomed CoF

    Really skilled players will give a flicker crouch timed right when they think you're adjusted your initial snap aim and are about to headshot. Rare they'll do it twice in a single engagement. It doesn't throw off their aim, and they aren't going to be using some macro to do it.
  9. Demigan

    One of the best way to currently keep the playerbase playing is to fix glaring issues. Just fixing many of these things would make the game feel like brand new.

    While they are at it, fixing old issues by adding stuff is also an option, its not just about bug hunting. Fixing the problems with how the game keeps stopping momentarily while players wait for timers to tick down or for attackers to get their Sunderers set up would increase interests in non-biolab fights as you can have continuous battles while losing or winning terrain. Small changes like adding player-made objectives that dynamically change the battlefield would also have a large impact. Sunderers already fulfill that function as they can theoretically be placed anywhere and offer different attack routes for players. Adding many more that create objectives to both place, protect, disrupt or destroy these would make the fights dynamic and much more interesting, as a bonus giving you options to make individual classes more important compared to the jack-of-all-trades HA. You can also refocus player attention from KD whoring to rewarding them for completing these smaller objectives, making players more willing to experiment and risk their lives to try and complete them.
  10. Demigan

    That's not crouch spam, not even close.
  11. Somentine

    He almost beat you in a 1v1 'fair' fight against a heavy. Carbines are typically better DPS, but that was still way too close.

    For the thread topic:

    The biggest problem with crouching is the animation. It should be a way to dodge some headshots, but it shouldn't be so janky. Slow down the animation by adding in more frames, and force the player to complete a full crouch and standing animation.

    I don't think adding CoF or slowing the player down any more than it already does is necessary, but those aren't bad ideas either. IMO, it's better to naturally discourage it rather than heavy handily discourage it.

    By slowing down the animation and forcing the full animation, you basically add a cool down to it anyway. Like look at the gif in Jibba's post. Look how fast that animation is. That should not exist like that.
  12. RabidIBM

    I want to clarify that I only mean to widen the firing cone while returning to standing. Dropping to crouch for a better shot and better use of cover is legit and should not be penalized. That brief second of uncrouching is where I'd say to widen the firing cone. This way the people spamming the crouch key will have the same firing cone as if they were falling, rendering the meta useless.
  13. JibbaJabba

    That's not me just FYI, just some buddy.

    The spammer didn't win though. With a carbine. Indoors inside hipfire range.

    The person that did win did what was appropriate in that engagement. Some simple AD strafing, hipfire, focus near neck. They screwed up their own HA shield deployment but still won.

    The person with the carbine should have won but they did the wrong thing. They strafed in one direction and tried to crouch spam their way out of it.

    The animations in planetside are... old. And simple. It's what makes a flicker crouch so powerful. It does a deep dip on the enemy screen but barely affects aim. It takes a lot of skill and practice to use this to decent effect. Spamming the crouch manually or setting up some sort of macro doesn't accomplish the same thing.

    If you want to say put a stamina limit on crouching 5x same way you do with bunny hopping.. sure, fine. I would rather dev put resources into a myriad of other fixes but I won't object.

    But if you want to somehow alter the mechanics and movement meta around single crouches I'll object. That sounds like whining about others being good and taking something away from them rather than spending the time to get good at it yourself.
  14. Somentine

    Their HA shield was completely used up. It was used as correctly as could be. They also got basiaclly no headshots (1?), despite aiming for the chest/neck. They're also using an Orion with a laser sight.

    This is about the best scenario for an even fight an HA could ever ask for, and they barely won against an LA.

    No, they shouldn't have won at all unless the HA was worse.

    No good player thinks the crouch animation is good. Using it correctly is still a skill, but it doesn't mean it's a good mechanic and that actually fixing the janky animation is whining.

    Also, @ the get good comment, do we need to compare stats?
  15. JibbaJabba

    But... Barely won = won
    If the crouch is so powerful why did the guy using it lose to the guy not?

    (I by no means consider this one .gif to be the gospel here, but it's illustrating the point I'm trying to make)

    He didn't use his shield optimally, he popped it at the start of the engagement. His overshield went down before his shield which means his AD was slow. Would have cost him against a better player.

    The LA lost ultimately because they sucked. Deep crouches throwing off aim didn't help.

    Butter smooth animation across all poses would be ideal. Asking for that isn't whining. But we're playing a recoded DX9 game in 2021 so I'm not holding my breath.

    The movement meta that exists includes a fast duck. Smooth animiation or not, it's fast. Good players use it when the time is right. If folks want that changed because others use it against them, then yeah I think that's whining

    If they want the "spamming" of it confined to say 5x ... mmm ok I guess? I'm happy to let noobs running a macro think it's working.
    No, but I could be talked into a quick trip to Jaeger :D. I'll still be right here no matter who wins :p
  16. Somentine

    If you consider barely winning against, as you said: "a sucky LA", as a heavy, then that's on you.

    Your momentum changes on activation/de-act, it doesn't carry over until you stop moving or change direction.
    You only don't want to turn it on first if you're shuffling or running, otherwise you risk being clientsided before it even goes off or losing some of the regen from adren.

    Uh, 'deep' crouches work. In fact, part of the meta is now to just hold crouch for a little longer, or even just stand still and duck two or sometimes three times and just out DPS the other in a 1v1 like: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/933758219?t=01h40m26s or just watch Leroy, especially when he uses gauss saw.

    The LA may or may not have sucked, but he was an LA not using his ability, facing off against a Heavy with both of them reacting to each other at basically the same time.

    LOL, and then you follow that up with:

    By that logic, they shouldn't have fixed the semi-auto rubber banding, after all, it was just a fast animation and using it was a skill. Get out of here.

    So wait, you won't compare stats, and if I beat you on Jaeger you're still right? lol what a joke. If you're going to make the skill argument, then at least stick to your guns and **** if a better player tells you you're wrong.
  17. ZeroVeroes

    Make it to where headshots dont take increased damage unless you use single / 3 shot weapons. So mostly all full auto (most common) weapons dont apply increased headshot damage. Thus you can always aim in the nether area and no matter if they crouch spam or not they will always get hit.
  18. JibbaJabba

    Yes. You're gonna have to separate your argument and make it stand on it's own. Spamming crouch doesn't need some particular nerf because it's not effective. If you want to have a separate ***** measuring contest we can go do that but I'm not sharing my ingame stuff in the forum.
  19. NotsiMadz

    You're wrong, you're 200% wrong

    Not only is it super effective when used normally, it's ******* OP when exploited.

    I guess I'm gona have to make a video, I don't mean this in a patronising way, but I thought this was common knowledge.

    I like making videos, but not this kind, it's a pain, I have to record for like 5 seconds every time someone does it, then I have to edit everything together, for a 60 second video it takes me hours, I swear to god..
  20. Demigan

    Since you keep going about this I'll give a more full reply:

    That guy does less than 1 crouch per second. That's not crouch-spam that's just using crouch sometimes.
    The guy does basically exactly what you say skilled players do: hit crouch when you've "adjusted to the initial aim" . Although he holds it a bit longer so you are more inclined to aim lower, which is smart and the more likely idea that he's just using it in the hopes to throw off your aim a little.
    Your idea of what skilled players do is kind of ridiculous. Since due to the latency system all you see is what your enemy did a fraction of a second ago you have to predict the future when your enemy is adjusted to the "initial snap". This is also completely contrary to your point that you can "just center shot them".

    Consider also that the actual battle went like this:
    The TR LA walks down the stairs into the room. He's already turning away when the VS HA walks into the room. The VS HA seems unprepared and turns late to his opponent.
    The TR LA seems to turn and fire simultaneously with the VS HA, but in reality the TR LA turns and opens fire a fraction of a second sooner, showing the TR LA despite already turning away and not looking into the VS HA's direction initially is more aware and ready for combat than the VS HA.
    As the fight goes on, the TR LA manages to take away more health from the VS HA than the VS HA from the TR LA, but only the shield saves the VS HA.
    Surprisingly I could use a grainy screenshot during the TR LA's death to see the white color scheme on the weapon and identify it as either the TRAC5 or TRAC5-burst. This means the DPS of both weapons is virtually the same. You can see the COF of the VS HA, which only at the end grows larger than the TR LA model so we know the larger starting hipfire COF wasn't detrimental to the Orion in this fight.
    The LA was a newby by the look of his BR and playstyle, but not new to FPS's in general.