Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by AirPilot, Jul 16, 2016.

  1. WeRelic

    Oh look, it's the "Let's trash on pilots" bandwagon train again.

    This forum is so toxic it's no wonder the mods don't even like coming here.
  2. Jamuro

    It's good to see that you understand the issues pilots are facing somewhat, but your "solution" is a bit ignorant.
    (Intentional or not)

    It's basically the same as if i were to tell all infantry players, that if they don't want to get farmed to hell, then they have to simply stay away from the places where esfs are.

    See, it's a bit sh*t ... and the easiest solution honestly would be to split the esfs up into 2 different types with their own clearly distinguishable models.
    And the a2a hunter variation, simply has no access to a2g weapons, BUT gains agility/speed and some resistance to ground based AA.
  3. Saturax

    Only problem i see is ESF vs ESF fights... ( lets say both have mg+coyotes ) players with composite armour + F repair, get beter edge over players using stealth... ( players with same skill ) it was like 50-50 now its 70-30... some one can say.... but he will not see you coming on radar... true, but he will hear you and turn on you anyway if he have some skill, because stealth esf make same sound like normal esf so... reduct stealth esf sound can balance it, or i think make coyotes lock on stealth lvl 5 was mistake... stealth esf now fell like paper plane :D
  4. zaspacer

    It's really not that bad in most areas for doing A2G. As long as there is some sort of way to break line of sight. In places like Northern Indar, AA can be pretty brutal, but in many other places an ESF can still operative through even a small number of enemy AA. You just id what types of AA they are, where they are, and then use terrain to cut off their angles and open up routes for attacks/exits. For A2A vs. ESF, AA can definitely get bad though, as you typically have to exit the area while taking damage from the ESF.
  5. FriendlyPS4

    Presently I have no sympathy for pilots because the air game in PS4 is farm the softies on the ground. So softies have to fight invisible warriors. Flying warriors. Gunships, and ESFs who just want to fly low to pick you off and run.

    There should be a flight ceiling where air can not effectively duel each other and not get hit by ground. But once you go below that safety zone to play pilot v pilot. Then you are fair game to all your troubles.
  6. FriendlyPS4

    *There should be a flight ceiling where air can effectively duel each other and not get hit by ground.

    • Up x 1
  7. FriendlyPS4

    Lol this forum was a bad idea from the start. It took away from the healthy planetside-universe community that existed for years. And spread it across, this dead forum. A dev forum that most don't even know about. Reddit and Twitter. No bueno. Fail customer service.
  8. OldMaster80

    Are you new to the game? In Planetside 2 ESF are supposed not to have effective counters :D

    Seriously I hope they consider a further change to coyotes by making them impossible to reload in background while firing the nose gun.
    After that it's time to have a serious look at the Valkyrie which sadly remains a useless piece of flying garbage.
  9. Scr1nRusher

    Barely anyone uses Coyotes.
  10. FriendlyPS4

    I don't. I only use air as a very life threatening way of traveling to my destination. Last kill I had with an ESF was a smurf idling mid-air in a Valk waiting for the base to turn blue. Thats as good at air to air "combat" as I get.
  11. CptFirelord

    I mean... Proyotes are a bit imbalanced (as if they ever weren't) currently, but a good pilot can still shoot down a crutch-user with his nosegun. I've been taking my rotary out a bit more for the extra DPS instead of my trusty needler just so I combat the Proyotes dpm.

    The real bane of all things in the air is flak. Fly over ANY fight where there is a single burster MAX and tell me how many other pilots you see. Alive ones, that is.

    You must not fly that often.
  12. Taemien

    What do the british call this? "All mouth and no trouser" or something like that?

    Pilots on a whole aren't being trashed, just the ones who can't adapt to new situations. Like I've said in other aspects of the game, if they quit then its good. I get quality over quantity in both teammates and enemies.

    People have choices. Crying or Fighting. Not seeing much fight in this thread.
    • Up x 2
  13. Scr1nRusher

    Or......... **** is being blown out of proportion & Skynights are acting like SJW's.
    • Up x 1
  14. vortex-5

    I dunno I'm kinda liking the new air changes I see new air in the skies and the new air zerg balls are refreshing and scary at the same time. Not to mention if you're equipped with anti-air on the ground you're in for a cert farm.

    Skyknights sort of live in a rule set that is not in the game. The game is about interaction between all the parts. There is no such thing as a dedicated A2A game you're juggling that with the ground suppression duties interception etc.

    Over the last few years you have to think of the game for what it is in that infantry play is the meat and potatoes tank and vehicle play is the sauce and air play is the garnish on top. Air is what you bring when you need a force multiplier but you don't just going around air air air the game is just not setup.

    So have some steak and have some sauce you may even like these things.

    (I realize the analogy is probably awful but hopefully everyone gets the point)

    As an aside that's why I love the flying in planetside a lot of it is situational awareness. Some random ground base has flak you better know about it. And when a base like the octagon is not going our way a game of farm the softies is generally a reasonable force multiplier although you generally can only do it for about 3-4 passes before all manner of flak is deployed. Other games that are purely based on flight (Warthunder) are pretty sterile if you're looking for a clean air game go there they have a far nicer flight model where planes feel like planes but the beauty of planetside IMO is it's dirtyness and how a great fight can be ruined the instant you see Lock Ground Mx3
  15. Riksos

    I see Coyotees so infrequently that when I get killed by them I'm more surprised than upset. I thought this was going to be a joke thread before I started reading. It would be like saying you are going to quit because the engineer repair tool's range is too long.
    • Up x 1
  16. Insignus

    Disclaimer: Certain quotes have been re-summarized for my amusement, and to provide perspective on what I feel is actually being said. This may or may not reflect their viewpoints, and I encourage you to hit the arrow up button to see their actual words. [Skub] is an indicator of perceived issue stance, and is mostly an internal classification to keep track of people's positions.

    Good post. But unfortunately, I have to dock you points because you have clearly failed to discern behavioral indicators, unit markers, and pixelated specific weapon loadouts on an object travelling 300Kph in the opposite direction at a 25 degree AoA into the Sun, all of which would tell you if you were engaging an A2G Esf or a Skyknight, and thus whether or not you should leave them alone. That's just bad form!

    So close! This is actually a "Pilots trashing other pilots!" thread. The "Lets hate air in general!" thread is generally between 3-5 posts down the page on any given day.

    I've also noticed an uptick in pilots, including a new batch of comically bad ones that I'm assuming are learning, and some of them are taking pointers well. I think part of it is also that many players have been convinced by proxy that they can't fly because the air game is discussed in such toxic and ominous terms, and the news that the air game may have changed has convinced them to try it out.

    But I've flown with some of the "Flak is OP crowd" before, and to be honest, I never hear them ask about flak before flying into a zone, and they never listen when I offer that information. The casual galaxy crowd absolutely does, and gobbles that info up, even though they have the least to fear, but the ESF people don't seem to ask or offer that info unless they're in an air-only squad or in some sort of outfit based air smash, and Lib pilots just seem to roll on and shrug it off. They seem to just set themselves to roam for kills, and seem annoyed when they roam into AA nests or defended columns. Its like someone has the audacity to anticipate their attack and shoot back at them.

    There is a social science gold mine in the ESF community, simply waiting for someone to write a dissertation. If you know anyone in a PhD program for anthropology or sociology, you should totally clue them in.
    • Up x 4
  17. Scr1nRusher

    They are the SJW's of PS2.
  18. zaspacer

    The Devs don't come here because they can't post here without restrictions and potential repercussions from their bosses.

    I think this forum is great. I have enjoyed being a part of it for years. It is my current favorite forum.

    I suppose each persons opinion of it will vary. I don't know what you want in a forum, and perhaps it's just not for you.

    Coyotes are being used much more now. In my handful of trips online I have used Coyotes, I have seen Coyotes on ally ESFs at landing pads, and I have been killed by Coyotes. I'm not proclaiming Coyotes are being used by everyone, but I definitely have seen a surge in their use since the patch.

    Who knows what the usage rate will be when the dust settles and ESF pilots figure out what works for them. Coyote is poor (but not useless) at A2G, and ESF players who do usually do lots of A2G but who are currently trying out Coyotes, may go back to their Hornets and Rocket Pods... or maybe AI Nosegun and Coyotes... dunno.

    I'm not a Skynight. I'm not that good at ESF and I don't have their attitude about Air. But I'm seeing signs that the Coyote factor is looking like a legit issue... at least for now.
    • Up x 1
  19. Eranorz

    I'm earning just about the same or more per hour as I was before the patch. I think it's mostly due to the "OPness" of the new coyotes being offset by the fact that there is more "free food" in the air now.

    I've seen these kinds of arguments ad infinitum, basically that the flight controls in PS2 are "broken" in some way.

    Listen, the flight controls aren't broken, you've just never learned how to hover. This isn't a flight simulator, it's not Battlefield, and if you keep trying to fly forward like a conventional jet, you will get wrecked over and over, coyotes or not.

    Every ESF in PS2 is equipped with vertical jets that add a new dimension to aerial combat. This is virtually unprecedented in other aircraft combat games, and has certainly never been implemented at this same scale. So when you reference other flying games, their flight controls have no relevance whatsoever to how these futuristic ESFs should be handling because it is an entirely new platform with no basis for comparison.

    It's like if you spent your whole life driving a Miata to work and one day your millionaire friend lets you take his Ferarri FXX out for a spin on the track. Of course it's more difficult to handle, in fact you're all over the place at first - but that doesn't mean something is wrong with the car, it's just your own understanding of how to control it that's lacking. ie. PILOT ERROR: It happens. You can either deny it and remain clueless or accept it and start finding basic things to work on and improve. The biggest failing of PS2's devs in this regard is not making tutorials to help new pilots do this.

    In fact, the maneuvers you refer to as "buggy" are actually quite predictable when you realize what your opponent is doing with his jets and a few other factors such as the angle of his wings and so forth. Any game that tries to build in a "hover" function like PS2 has done has to have hard and fast rules for how how the aircrafts react to things such as gravity and momentum, it's not an easy task to program from a physics perspective.

    But IMO, Higby and crew did a pretty good job, it's just that self-proclaimed "pros" can't be bothered to learn something so unique from other games they have played. The experience is too humbling for most of them, so they end up blaming the aircraft itself, and for some reason the PS2 team never produced an actual series of tutorials for flying which covers basic maneuvers and a few core concepts which otherwise have to be learned from experience and from talking to more experienced pilots.

    Sadly, a noob pilot with coyotes is still a noob pilot, that's not an insult it's just a fact that all of us have had to live with when we were new to flying, that goes for everyone, from novice to Ace.

    The need to understand basic maneuvers and have some fundamental competency at controlling your ESF isn't going anywhere, and your approach only panders to people who can't be bothered to invest the time and effort to acquire said competency. Don't want to invest the time into becoming a better pilot? Drive a tank, do some sniping, roll some heavy assault and get some launcher kills, tower stomp with an LA, pull a max, grab an engineer and go to farm town. Ride around on a Wraithcloak flash and run people over if you want to (I am as guilty of this as anyone).

    There's an endless variety of things you can do in this game that don't require as much time and effort as learning to fly does, there is no need to reduce the most artful aspect of this game to peanuts just so you can feel "included". That's like the 6th grade soccer team losing a match and still getting trophies handed out to them because the parents insist on making them "feel like winners"... [IMG]:rolleyes:

    Things that "homogenize" the skill requirements of a game take away the individual player's capacity for exceptionalism and eliminate the incentive to get better. The experience is no longer rewarding or fruitful; It's like communism for video games - past a certain point there is nothing left to shoot for and the proceedings soon devolve into a giant *********** where everyone has the same relative effectiveness and noone stands out. (P.S. Anyone who has ever flown on Connery will immediately understand what I am talking about)

    Because being frustrated by trying to learn a new skill is so unbearable, right?!
    Ok, you want to know the truth? The vast majority of fights I have with coyote users (if it's just one) goes like this: They fly straight into me, I airbrake and hover, they fire a salvo and either A. Try to ram or B. Fly right past me, I turn in on them as they pass, rush them and one clip them.

    This **** isn't making them any better of a pilot than before, they aren't being challenged to excel and they will remain mediocre at best so long as they keep treating an ESF like "just another vehicle" that they can hop into as if it were a harasser.

    All the new coyotes have done is to give novice pilots a "cheese" weapon that they can use to occasionally snipe kills on someone.

    And it's not even good cheese.

    It's pleb cheese, Kraft singles in the plastic wrapping that your mom used to make grilled cheese sandwiches when you were 5.

    No gouda. No Muenster. No Colby. And CERTAINLY no aged vermont white cheddar.

    Just moldy, pleby cheese.

    The End ~
  20. ColonelChingles

    You make it sound so fancy. Almost as if to cover up the fact that PS2 doesn't actually have a flight model... it has the LA model that has been stretched out a bit, complete with the ability to turn on a dime or lose forward momentum.

    PS2's flying isn't inspirational... it's lazy.