Coyote Missles "Helping" the "New players" in the air game.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Scr1nRusher, Apr 28, 2014.

  1. entrailsgalore

    So the 3 factions don't Compete with each other on any level?
  2. Monkeydmomo

    You obviously don't know what competitive play is, you know tournaments?
  3. Ronin Oni

    But they MIGHT have spare cash ;) $$
    • Up x 2
  4. Hoki

    Thread of dishonest complaints from nosegun samurai about being shot down by new players.
  5. bPostal

    They've got 700SC from me.
    And now that I've gotten a bit better in the air, I don't even use 'em. Too late for a refund though :(
  6. entrailsgalore

    adjective: competitive
    1. 1.
      of, relating to, or characterized by competition.
      "a competitive sport"
      synonyms: ruthless, aggressive, fierce;More
      informaldog-eat-dog, cutthroat
      "a highly competitive industry"
    2. 2.
      as good as or better than others of a comparable nature.
      "a car industry competitive with any in the world"
    Now a tournament is a different story, but that is not what was said. What was said was that Planetside 2 was NOT a competitive multilayer game. Which by definition it is, since all three factions are competing with each other for resources, territory control, and XP/certs. Now if what was said was "This game isn't a Tournament based game it lost that chance a long time ago", I might agree with that.
    • Up x 2
  7. Monkeydmomo

    You're trying to hard here. I could get on the web choose a definition of competitive that sides with my cause but I'd be beating a dead horse.
  8. Alarox

    Coyote missiles help moderately skilled ESF pilots like myself who don't have massive amounts of playtime and top tier aim like so many players do. They help players like me still utilize tactics without getting stomped into the ground.
  9. m44v

    The main point of this thread is that with a 1000cert price tag, sure as hell it doesn't help new players to get into the air game. And because Coyotes can basically replace your rotaries, you can build an one-size-almost-fit-all ESF that can deal with both air and infantry, like a Banshee/Coyote Mosquito.

    Edit: There's also the issue that neither flares or stealth do sh*t against coyotes.
  10. MrJengles


    I'm going to repost a comment I made in The Current State Of ESF Dogfights thread. Coyotes are getting some discussion there too.

    "Coyotes are not balanced:
    • Coyotes should stick to their design goal of helping newer players close the gap between themselves and experienced pilots
    • They should not reduce viable weapon choices / loadouts
    • They should encourage newer pilots to practice flying and aiming so that they can later progress on to a weapon that's harder to master
    If you make a weapon that's just as good if not better than it's predecessor AND make it easier to use, why would anyone use the alternative?

    Regarding the Air gameplay everyone agrees it's too hard for newer players. In fact, I would even say that regular pilots have historically been the most vocal in providing suggestions because it isn't fun flying around when almost no one else is. Ground pounders tend to talk about anti-air more, except for those that are actively trying to learn to fly.

    Linear progression is the thing to avoid here. What you want is to boost newer players ability so they are more effective for very little effort. The more effort you put in, the less you get out of it. This closes the gap between the top and low ends without eliminating the need for practice or the achievement from it.

    Ideally, you'd make every weapon easy to start with and hard to master but that balance is incredibly difficult to accomplish at the best of times, and is even harder in the air where there's such a vast gulf between the worst you can be and the best you can be.

    Thus, the concept of balancing weapons for different capability brackets. Every weapon gets to be viable, just not at the same time to every individual. It goes like this:

    Players start with weapon X because for very little effort it yields a significant reward. As players become more experienced they find that weapon X tops out at maximum effectiveness quite early on.

    Instead of letting those players become bored with the game and leave, you create the hard-to-master weapon Y for them to practice with. Many of the things they've already learned about situational awareness or leading a target translate so this change is more gradual than if they'd started with weapon Y (it yields very little until you can cross this boundary). For a while, they may even switch back and forth until they feel comfortable relying solely on weapon Y.

    Coyotes being slow but with a margin of error makes for good practice leading targets, unlike Tomcats, which was one of the major suggestions from the community on helping newer pilots without killing off the higher end gameplay.

    All that we need to see is Coyotes have significantly less DPS than a nose gun given the accuracy of a mid-level pilot. This means all newer pilots will take Coyotes and be able to do way more damage than they used to, making it easier for them to start being useful in the Air.

    [I hope people don't forget quite how bad things were and how much of an improvement this would be. I remember complaints about 2 or 3 v 1s where, despite the advantage, newer players said they could barely do any damage. This would fix those scenarios entirely. Or if AA helps out. Or if the more experienced, not necessarily top tier, pilot messes up. Or if they were injured from a fight that happened a while ago.

    The more people that fly, the better that state of balance becomes.]

    Once they reach a certain threshold they should move on to nose guns, otherwise, we relegate nose guns to a fall back weapon for when you run out of ammo. We shouldn't see experienced pilots doing as well with Coyotes as they would with a nose gun."
    • Up x 1
  11. Ownasaurusrex

    I'm using hornet missiles in A2A. Soon enough one day, I'll be able to land both hits on coyote missile users.
  12. Liquidrider

    They certainly have changed the air game that is for sure. I can't even do reverse maneuvers anymore because of the those pesky missiles.

    So I adapted and now fly with Coyote misses. Could careless about the hate tells I get. The way I look at it, I am still flying and they aren't :)
  13. Bujias

    Is it really fun? or at least is it as fun as it use to be before they came along? cause when ever i use those things... mostly to take revenge on a guy who used them against me, i get no satisfaction for the kills i get, iv been fliying with those things lately as well just to kill people using A2A lock ons coyotes or tomcats, or the pest of hyenas lately, and thinking of adding air hammer to those. But it put me at a disadvantage against ab podders because i refuse to use them against them they are no fun, require no skill and i really dont feel good using those things or getting kills with them.

    Its a dumbed down weapon that shouldnt exist. ill keep saying it because im getting bored of the game and i really want to have fun again. They ruined the air game, practice, skill, determination, perseverance should be more rewarding than push to win weapons.

    Now the infantry and tankers out there should realize coyotes are crap against libs, requires you to be to close to comfort, incising lib survivability, so yeah its against you to, most of us that want to get rid of coyotes wouldn't care at all if they got rid of rocketpods, its not us farming you, stop defending crappy weapons that affect the entire game!
  14. LT_Latency

    that is the point. The new players can actual;y hit their targets.
  15. AssaultPig

    they helped me get into the air game!

    of course, I had like 6000 spare certs to dump into my reaver so I don't exactly qualify as a new player, but trying to learn to fly A2A against experienced pilots was an exercise in pure frustration. I still mostly get shot down in head-up duels, but at least I don't feel completely ineffective anymore. And it's getting to the point that I'm starting to feel relatively confident swapping the yotes out of my A2A loadouts

    for tomcats, I mean. what'd you think?
  16. Silkensmooth

    Hey im crappy at infantry play. I mean im pretty bad at it. But i don't really feel like practicing to get better you know, cause i should just be able to win. This is 'murica right and we all deserve to win. We are all heroes and stuff right?

    So why don't we have coyote machine guns for infantry play. Shotgun requires too much aiming and is useless at anything but cqc. My problem is that people who have better aim than me are just owning me at medium to long range.

    If we had a coyote machine gun that had head-shot heat-seeking rounds i could just fire in the general direction of my enemy and all the bullets would be head-shots. This is needed imo. If its needed in the air, its definitely needed on the ground. Most new players play infantry anyway.

    I want lock-on sniper rifles too. WT F should i have to AIM my friggen sniper rifle? This is how many hundred years in the future?

    Besides why would you play a FPS if you wanted skill to matter? There are games like WoW that truly require skill. Like you have to learn your spell rotation and like tab target stuff you know, so go play WoW or CoD if you want a skill based game. PS2 is not a competitive game its a team based game.
    • Up x 1
  17. rahulr1

    I f**king hope you're being a troll.
  18. rahulr1

    Anyway my thoughts on Coyotes. In a recent sale I picked up the Coyotes because everyone was killing me with them and they are undeniably OP. This is not a good thing. 99 percent of A2A engagements between two decent pilots involve the two pilots swaying in a pendulum motion in front of each other and using the nose gun to land as many shots as possible. Coyotes are easy mode and take away any skill that was need like in the aforementioned engagement type. I know this because I own them, and because I am a victim of it. I've invested over 5k certs in my Scythe and the game was way better in the 'everyone runs rocket pods and the 250cp nose gun' days. The air is now only left with br100 pros who nobody can take down and the worst part is many of them use Coyotes.
  19. Chazt

    That way we can confirm that this really is just liberator side 2? Got it, I'll pass.
  20. Teshrrar

    I still can't see this "skill" which you all talk about the air game in Planetside 2. It's ALL about practice, nothing more: learn where to aim compensating the latency, use the same cert build as everyone, find the better mouse sensibility for your gameplay, done. All you need to do now is press space and use basicly macro movements. At least with coyotes and tomcats I can try new tactics which not involve the stupid "press space and F and aim" play, even failing a lot because there's almost no room for anything but this.