Coyote Missles "Helping" the "New players" in the air game.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Scr1nRusher, Apr 28, 2014.

  1. Scr1nRusher

    They don't.

    From there price, to how they are used, they are the last thing new players that enter the air game can get or want to face.

    They are the heat seeking rocket pods of the air.

    Coyote's Were Quote on quote "designed to help new players enter the air game" Along with the higher capacity nose gun options.

    Yet both were priced 1,000 certs

    Coyote missiles Make the airgame really messed up for everyone.

    Right now they are being abused as much as rocket pods used to be.

    Theres no thinking involved, just get a Enemy ESF in front of you and launch the missiles. The missiles will do all the work.

    Atleast with the rarely seen hornet missles the effectiveness of the missles involves the player entirely, and to some extent the 500 range tomcats do aswell...... somewhat.

    My final point is this,

    At the current state of the Air game Coyotes are broken, and they have broken the air game.

    Theres more to the Air game then just Liberators...... but that's another story.
    • Up x 10
  2. Paragon Exile

    It is my sincere hope that all lockons will one day be expunged from the game entirely and shot into the sun.
    • Up x 8
  3. DashRendar

    The sun isn't nearly good enough, send them to the place they sent Myspace.
    • Up x 10
  4. WyrdHarper

    They help new players figure out that they have no place in the air game unless they're much too stubborn for their own good.

    (Note: I'd love to see more pilots, especially since I'm not a particularly great pilot myself and could always use more things to kill!)
  5. Paragon Exile

    1v1 me! I'll feed you tons of kills!
    • Up x 1
  6. bPostal

    As someone who is currently using Coyotes to get over his inability to fly I think it helps even the odds when I fight against people who actually know what their doing. Shoot the nosegun, fire the missiles, shoot the nosegun some more, fire a few more missiles.

    Sure, you can go ahead and bash me, but if it weren't for the addition of these things, I'd still be on the ground shooting lockons at you anyway in a vain attempt to get y'all to **** off.
    • Up x 9
  7. WyrdHarper

  8. Paragon Exile

    Games shouldn't reward you for being bad. Newbie crutches have no place in a competitive multiplayer game.

    *Is horrible pilot/tanker/infantryman*
    • Up x 6
  9. bPostal

    True, you shouldn't be rewarded for being bad, but you shouldn't be punished excessively for it either.

    To get to point I'm at now I had to rotate my resources and timers between three different alts on three different servers and I still get jacked up by a competent pilot with little to no chance of fighting back.

    As to PS2 being a competitive multiplayer game, it's very much not. Look at how far MLG has gotten. The closest you'll find to an actual competition is community clash and even then you're still just playing for fun.
    • Up x 4
  10. Simferion

    Problem with Coyotes is that also super Expert pilots are using them to boost their DPS.
    So they are a Get2Win option now.
    I had to buy them because otherwise I was jumped on and shredded to pieces. Now I can defend myself.
  11. Planetdoge

    I have about 20 hours in ESFs now, and never once did I consider buying the expensive Coyote missiles. I seriously doubt I would have improved nearly as fast as I have if I had been using Coyotes instead of relying on the nosegun (okay, and lolpods for ground peasant farming). Nosegun nosegun nosegun... it's so fun to kill infantry with the nosegun. :D
  12. m44v

    If Coyotes were meant to newbies then they would be:
    1. Cheap to buy, 'cause the average newbie doesn't have certs to spare.
    2. Outclassed by a high skill alternative, so once they learn the ropes they can switch to a more difficult (and more effective) play style.

    But they are neither.
    • Up x 8
  13. WolfA4

    One amusing side effect of Coyotes is that it forces people out of hover-fighting ranges with rotaries, and into Air Hammer range. People are so eager to lean on Coyotes that they have been making themselves child's play to shoot down with an Air Hammer.
  14. FateJH

    Well, it's a good thing this is Planetside 2 and not something more respectable, yes?
  15. Paragon Exile

    The only "punishment" being doled out is by those who put their sweat and blood into learning the game. By giving newbs a, in my opinion unfair, leg-up on them with some ridiculous no-skill weapon is both demeaning to the "pro" and counter-productive for the new guy.

    When I started (and now...) I got shredded in seconds by people who actually knew what the hell was actually happening and what they were doing. I consistently and constantly got/get gutted without any real chance of victory, and I learned from my mistakes.

    I'm improving myself through trials, and doing things the hard way; by having a weapon that holds my hand, I lose out, and in the process BS the people I'm fighting.

    "Competitive multiplayer" = Two or more teams of opposing players
    • Up x 2
  16. Paragon Exile

    PS2 is well-known for its balance and well thought out patches :3
    • Up x 2
  17. bPostal

    The punishment is from the overly restrictive combination of resources and timer, both of which are getting looked at sooner or later if my recollection serves me, that only compounds the frustration that one gets from an excessive learning curve. This leads to the mindset of "**** it I'm getting a grounder, some bursters and a few skyguards" which has served me for the last year or so.

    In stepping into the pilot's domain I can't help but notice that if you're on the ground, you still have a fair chance at fighting back in a majority of situations. This does not apply to someone who's learning to fly A2A (anyone can lolpod, and as an 'infantryman' the liberal use of lolpods has further fueled my hatred for anyone who flies).

    As I've pointed out previously, what the Coyotes have done for me, is help ease the transition from ground pounder to a much more well rounded player. Is this fair to someone who has spent their time and effort learning to fly? I say yes. Coyotes, in the hands of someone who already knows how to fly, will destroy someone who doesn't know how to fly. Contrary to the popular belief, they do not act as an instant 'I win' button even if they do have some sketchy aspects. I wouldn't even be upset if they were nerfed in one of the variety of ways that have been brought up both on this forum and reddit as I'm still of the mind that the primary weapon should be primary and the secondary should be just that. Please note that this mindset also applies to the Tomcats and especially to the lolpods.
    Any player, not just the noobs, can unlock and use Coyotes so the playing field is very much level in that aspect. If you've got the certs or the SC, you can get them and we both know that noobs probably don't have the spare certs lying around.

    The air game was broken before the introduction of these missiles and will continue to be so, with or without them. People complained about the Tomcats, people complains about the lolpods, people still complain about Libs. Matt Higby has even gone on record as stating the only hard counter to an aircraft is another aircraft when discussing ground based AA (a statement that I believe has done more harm to the state of overall combined arms balance than any other).

    I will continue in my unabashed use of them because they let me live long enough to practice what's really important, dogfighting and aiming. These are the two main skills that I would never have even gotten a chance to sharpen, while also allowing me to enjoy the game in an entirely different fashion.
    • Up x 1
  18. Paragon Exile

    I agree that the current system is somewhat broken.

    The skill ceiling is higher in air vehicles because of how they're designed and control. It's sort of unavoidable that experienced people will curbstomp you in their area of expertise, otherwise there wouldn't be any point to learning.

    Reasonable, but you admit in this section that the missiles reduce the gap between the pro player and the newb, which is my whole gripe with them. They have no place in the game.

    Low-skill weapons by their very nature cannot be used at a "higher level" than high-skill weapons. The Gauss SAW, the Reaper
    DMR, the Beamer, the Lancer and the like are high-skill; they require good knowledge of game mechanics and require good aim. A player who practices with these guns and labours trying to improve will dominate someone who just picked them up.

    Conversely, low-skill weapons like shotguns, rocketpods and lockons are pretty much one-shot wonders; they basically use themselves. Sure there are some things you can do to improve your game with them, mostly related to positioning, but a pro and a newb will use them the same way and achieve similar results.

    I hate the latter.

    That's due to the concept of air superiority; the only way to consistently win is to control the skies. This is because they have such a massive advantage in terms of speed and maneuverability.

    The only way to make that no longer apply is to either A) remove air units altogether or B) nerf them to uselessness.

    I suck **** through a silly straw at flying, but I've been improving and getting kills on better pilots without missiles. You're just using them as a crutch; you need to put yourself at a disadvantage to learn.
    • Up x 1
  19. MarkAntony

    Lol i just use tomcats. Skillmissiles for the win!
    Sky knights don't like it because they allow tactics and numbers to be way more effective than individual skill. But having 6+ reavers with those things can really keep air superiority.
  20. TheBlazing

    Taking Coyotes as a secondary is just like taking Lolpods or Hornets. It lets you specialize in a specific role and be much more effective in that role, the difference being that pods/hornets are for A2G while Coyotes are for A2A.

    Also, I'm sorry if I will offend any honourable knight or something, but we really need to throw this "nosegun/unguided only" mentality in the trash can. Planetside 2 is not WWIISide 2, you can't really expect the entire A2A game to revolve around noseguns. If someone pays 1000 certs to specialize at A2A anti-ESF (because Coyotes are pretty crap against Liberators or Galaxies), and drops the advantage of lolpods/A2G or 80% more AB fuel to be more effective in that role, he deserves to have a good advantage against players that go with a mixed or A2G loadout.

    This type of advantage is also needed to prevent rotary+lolpods from becoming a "skygod A2E (air2everything)" loadout for skilled nosegun users: if you are a pro pilot, going with rotary+pods/ab may be good for all around work and dominating other multirole, A2G or inexperienced pilots but you can't really expect to win against a dedicated A2A pilot that takes rotary and Coyotes, even if he is not as skilled as you, because you have a mixed loadout while he has a loadout specifically intended to kill you.

    If you think that the problem are Coyotes as a weapon, and not the idea that the air game may span beyond just nosegun hoverduels, then propose a better A2A anti-ESF wepon.
    • Up x 12