[Suggestion] Counter Ghost Capping While Giving Infiltrators A New Support Role.

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by Sarmane, Feb 24, 2013.

  1. Sarmane

    A proposal to:
    -Lower/remove the ability of lone player/small 3-5 groups of people walk into unoccupied enemy bases and begin a cap on bases.
    -Remove the current ticket meter depleting without players on the Capture Point. Require that at least one person be on the point
    -Require that Capture points only begin flipping ownership when maxed out. i.e 2/2 for a three base or 6/6 for a major facility.
    -Give infiltrators a certifiable tool that allows them to drop a "transponder/virus" that adds "1 point" to a Capture Point (maximum of one per CP.) Can be removed/destroyed by a counter infiltrator hacking. This will enable free movement for attacking players in a base but not replace faster capturing completely.
    -Tweak level of ticket meter "burning" to reflect level of enemy activity at a base/allow possible defenders to react in time.
    Thoughts? Also sorry for placing this here, but by Vanu I want to see some change to current base capture mechanics! (And help out infiltrators with a new role.)
  2. Timeraider

    • Up x 1
  3. Sarmane

    Small ops would still be viable and I dont want wish to see more people join zergs. If you only had a team of 5, you could still begin caps on most bases EXCEPT Major facilites, Tech plants, Amp Station and Bio labs. (infiltrator hacking tool cannot be used until point is flipped over.) I also stress that this happens at the start of each cap and that the defenders would need 2/2 people or 6/6 to also change the CP back to their empire.

    I hate seeing currently a SINGLE person begin a cap on an entire base and if left alone for 3-5 minutes, switch a base over to their empire. It goes against any form of feeling like a base belongs to your empire while a single person can come along and set your ENTIRE front line on a slow burn towards to their own. it is tedious knowing there is just one person in an ESF flying around responsible. However, if it is a small ops team, who wish to capture a base or two, they still can, and under this new mechanic system, I would know I am sending a squad to deal with at least a small ops team too instead of Mr Lone Wolf ghost capping.

    So begins a new, interesting battle! I think it helps promote teamwork too, if you want to run around by yourself, then go join the big fights in instant action, leave the small base capturing to squad size level and up teams that want to shift the land strategically! Thanks for the response.
  4. Vaphell

    as for adding the slot to cap points, i'd see something going the other way too - fortify cap point for a period of time, removing 1, unless disabled by the enemy infiltrator. It could be an interesting dynamic involving 3 cap levels:
    fortified <-> normal <-> hacked
    I think the cap points would have to be reworked a bit as it would be possible to have +4/-4 in some bases and your standard medium base has 3*2 (+3/-3 = 50%) which would be more than +1/-1 in backwater outposts (16%)

    i'd like to see something taking the hacktool level into account It sucks that some scrub can rehack your lvl6 hack with ease. If it is to still be possible, time penalty should be brutal in case of a big lvl difference. Destroy/repair shouldn't circumvent high level hacks either. Mentioned cap point mechanic could use the tool level to calculate how long the buff/debuff is on.
    • Up x 1
  5. Sarmane

    Now were talking! I would love to see that level of certification into your hacking tree MEAN something.

    Maybe if your at the 4th-5th tier you can hack everything higher, but if your lower you cant. Also only higher level or maybe a different Hack Certification (which is expensive in the first place, none of this one cert to gain access).

    I also like your idea of different "stages" for a capture point. Prepping a base either against an incoming enemy as defender or as a friendly strike ops team attacking and making it be pivotal.
  6. Sarmane

    I have also felt that a high enough hack level (highest if balanced) should allow a infiltrator to hack destroyed terminals over to their empires ownership. If not individually, then perhaps a 'Master Control Node' that can be placed in major facilities and/or towers that if hacked over (has defenses like needs three high level infiltrators ect) that turns terminals and/or turrets over.
  7. Authustian

    I agree. Ghost hacking should be eliminated. 1 person running around on amerish (or esimer) should not be able to flip the continent.

    If nothing else, make it to where someone has to be on the point, or at least in the base to cap it.

    There must be an end to the: Fly to base, drop down and flip the points, hop back into aircraft, repeat.
    • Up x 2
  8. Vaphell

    being on the cap point would be brutal to infiltrators. You can't seriously expect squishy infiltrators to succeed while being anchored to a very small, well defined area for 2 long minutes. I do cap bases alone and i do sit on the cap point if possible but the wait is nerve wrecking because i know i have 80% chance to lose the duel if the enemy shows up.
  9. KiddParK

    if it's a team and outfit game, then a team or outfit should be the one to take bases. I'm not sure how to fix the 'i have a platoon that just had to turn back on itself to stop one guy' problem. But it's a tad annoying. Don't get me wrong, I'm an infiltrator a lot of the time too.
    • Up x 1
  10. Vaphell

    should the teams be required to claim lowly shacks in the middle of nowhere too? If there is nobody to contest your claim, it should be yours no questions asked. Major bases already take ages to cap, if nobody bothers to show up, you deserve to lose it, especially when it's in your interest to defend, as these 500xp/1000xp bases are the source of tanks. Guerilla tactics are valid but the problem is it's not *profitable* to go after lone cappers.

    The main source of the issue: Indar has too many bases, end of story. It's easy to avoid enemy when there are dozens of places where you can hit, not to mention it's not too epic nor impressive to see bases *everywhere* from the top of every major hill.
    Two ways to fix the problem
    - hardcore one: redo the map to reduce the count/increase the distance between and buff the value of bases from the territory control and logistics perspective
    - slice the current map into provinces where major facility is grouped with its adjacent outposts, demoted to a supportive role. Examples: you can cap them to get spawn points and deny resources, but can't launch attacks from them as they don't provide influence. Outposts have anti-droppod installations denying the rain of death in the province.
  11. Sarmane

    Vaphell, the idea for an Infiltrator virus/transponder is supposed to alleviate the issue of them standing on the point. This utility can only be made effective for base capture if the mechanics change AND it helps the infiltrators cause by giving them free reign to ambush OR they can decide to gamble as you said and increase the cap turn over rate even more. :D

    Now the reason I want base captures to change in general is because of the indirect(?) changing of course it makes to the whole scene of battles.

    Take a scenario of the bare minimum where you and a buddy are the only two in a squad.
    You decide you want to take over a tower that has three capture points.
    Your route of action would be to have an infiltrator with the right certification equipped after you have secured one of the points since it only requires 2/2.
    Once the point has flipped, your hacker leaves the transponder down and you move with your buddy to the next capture point.
    The previous capture point you just left still has a point of "one" on it.
    Rinse and repeat the other two capture points and decide whether to cover the spawn or sit on different points.

    For you and other people who attacked a base like this that is unoccupied (never meet resistance) and doesn't garner a response team, the base should flip towards you eventually. BUT this wont be as straightforward as previous since the base captures will take more time in general since previous times were so short to react too. (1/6 person on an outpost does crazy burning speed to the ticket atm and is unacceptable.)

    For possible defenders who see this on the map, I will know that "ah, there is atleast a small squad who know how to capture a base assaulting 'Tower Base'. I will send a scout or half a squad to respond and make sure there hack is removed."

    This will indirectly create smaller, organic and more battles between squads for outposts and major facilities (if they are large enough to begin the cap.)
    This will improve front-line defences as defenders will know there is atleast a small team at the base and thus look forward to the hunt/fight.
    It will give territory a sense of ownership since no base will flip every 10 minutes between one ghost hacker and another.
    It will utilise the infiltrator and make them a valued part of the strategy to take bases.
    It will help prevent ghost capping as lone players (wolves) wont be able to simply solo a base, they will either learn to capture a base with a squad or focus on fighting at an already engaged base.

    Thoughts?

    EDIT: This also isnt about Indar, this about any continent and since ghost caps happen on less populated continents. There has to be a change to the capture mechanics to ensure that fights are able to form around outposts AND that frontlines will be able to stay under control without ONE person coming along and sitting on a point for a couple mins.
  12. Vaphell

    i know it's not about indar but indar is the most played and its layout is the most sensitive to the annoying whack-a-mole game as there are lots of meaningless 1-3 hex territories plus it has these black holes sucking big chunks of population in, like the bermuda triangle of TI/Crown/Crossroads, which means the remaining forces are spread too thin elsewhere.
    If there were big pops on Esamir which has like half the number of bases the game flow would be much more predictable. Too bad it's rather bland and lacks cover everywhere.

    And the problem with capping empty continents is what exactly? Nobody cares = it's yours. It's not like you get resources from the continents you are not on or something.
  13. Sarmane

    Capping empty continents that the benefit belongs to your empire. Also if the changes were implemented, you would see people drift over more since they know there's more then two people trying to take over the continent instead of someone in an ESF.
  14. drNovikov

    Standing on the point should not be required. Staying where enemy can see your location and number is tactically dumb.But people should be in the area.
    • Up x 1
  15. Badfortune

    I enjoy the idea of new roles and more advanced mechanics with regards to both the infiltrator and base capture. I wouldn't be opposed at all to having utilities like viruses or worms that would make the infiltration portion of the game more interesting and effective. I really do hope that we will see some kinds of improvement for our class in the near future.