[Suggestion] Construction: Make hive cap terretory

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by LtBomber1, Sep 20, 2017.

  1. LtBomber1

    Introduction:

    As discussed before, construction feels seperated from the game. As it stands now, a few people use it to build hives, often in safe areas far away from the frontline. No one attacks them for a time, maybe a strike squad will come and clear it out with little to no resistance.
    The actual hive mechanic is promoting this kind of play: Build safe, keep it online long, and dont care for it anymore. Your empire is getting those VPs and sooner or later the continent locks. It feels more that terretory points are a help to lock the continent rather than the VPs, because they are permanent.

    Suggestion:

    In order to include construction play more into actual gameplay, i suggest to change to functionalty of the hive:
    Make a hive capture terretory.

    If your empire as a lattice connection to the enemy base, building a hive in it's hex will start a capture countdown of maybe 20 min. When done, the base automatically flips to the hive owner's fraction. The hive then explodes. Hives can not be build in friendly terretory.

    This change would have some nice impact on the game:
    -Construction is more present at the frontline.
    -Construction actually supports taking terretory
    -Bases very hard to attack (stale combat) can be bypassed
    -Promotes the built of OS bases to defend against hives
    -Victory points removed leave place for terretory gameplay


    Alternatively, one can think of removing the need of a lattice connection, making construction strike squads a powerfull cut off tool.
  2. OgreMarkX

    You are correct and good suggestions LtBomber. But there's a problem, Daybreak Games doesn't know what Planetside 2 is about. They still haven't defined its goal, it's CORE.

    This was a problem for Everquest Next while in development, it was a problem for H1Z1 and it's a problem for Planetside 2.

    This is why their direction in Planetside 2 lurched from MLG, to massive battles, to cash shop items, to nothing, to performance, to NS weapons, to nerfs and OP item cycles...on and on.

    When you don't understand, or can't state, your product/project scope and stick to it, then you end up squandering time and money on countless fruitless endeavors. Then the best currency in-house becomes "going along to get along" and the churn keeps churning.

    Until DBG picks a goal (a core focus) their time, resources and money will be frittered away on a thousand starts with no finishes.
    • Up x 2
  3. adamts01

    That's all depressing but accurate. I wasn't around pre-Daybreak, but from what I've seen and the proposed updates included in Critical Mass things are on the right track.

    OP: It's not a bad idea. Maybe include defensive hives that need to be taken out before a base can be capped. And there would need to be a faction-wide notice letting players know there's a hive battle going on. Those fights should be as epic as Tech Plants. The other solutions I really like are using a hive to disrupt a link or using one to create a link.
    • Up x 1
  4. LtBomber1

    I thought about that, but decided not to use the idea. The reason is, that defensive bases can be build everywhere in advance, and this would actually distract combat from bases, e.g hiding them deep in hex terretory. I think defending a base is usually not the problem, but people fail to deploy back and get armor.
    On the other hand, a attacking hive has to built right in enemy terretory, and thus can force the defenders out of their superior position. If you want to defend yourself against the hive capping, you can build a OS base, that could be taken out for a hive attack or be ignored for a regular attack. Still the OS could fire at regular troops (often minor effect). Additionally defenders have to look out for sneaky ants to build/reinforce strong bases in said hex.

    If one allows the setup of Cap-Hives without lattice regularisation, they can be used to strategically harrass and cut off enemy teretory. However again, this appoach seperates players to build bases behind the actual fights.
    Messing with lattice lanes sounds very complicated to me. Once established and the capture runs, no one will care for the base anymore, and if you decline a lattice, people will just fight elsewhere...
  5. adamts01

    Things will hopefully be much different when b-lining down a lane to the warpgate for the 2 victory points isn't the be all end all strategy. After Critical Mass when territory is what's important, ramming your way down a lane won't be so critical. So offensive hives won't be a shortcut to an objective, just a way to cut off enemy territory. I think it would be infinitely better than building hives in nooks and crannies on the edge of the map, and it would also keep troops moving around that area and hopefully fighting at the player made base.
    • Up x 1
  6. Demigan

    You guys realize that this would effectively kill the game, right?

    Let's look at for example Quartz Ridge and Indar Excavation. Often there's PMB's build right in the middle of the warzone that last easily more than 20 minutes before they are taken out, and that's right smack-dab in the middle where everyone will attack it without any terrain that allows you to abuse skyshields or limit the amount of attack routes towards you.

    Now imagine building these out of the way and capturing bases that way. It would be a nightmare. No one wants to attack PMB's because it's a crapshow from start to finish to attack, and only the builders and defenders of the PMB are enjoying the massive farm they get for defending their PMB. By forcing people to come out and attack these things anyway you annihilate what fun there is left in the game and the game dies.

    I would prefer Daybreak 10 times over this kind of crapshow.
    • Up x 1
  7. LordKrelas

    Oh gods, you want to engage a Hive, just for another to appear, with superior defenses, positioning, and lay-out in the entire hex, while besieging the Lattice base?
    All the while, an ANT in some mountain can lock out the points, making a third or 60th Base to destroy?

    Like my gods.
    As epic? ******* hell, you'd be battling possibly numerous Better-than-lattice automated defense systems & invulnerable walls.
    If the cap of 7 stays, then whomever builds them first also can keep literally 7 hexes Locked down behind hellish holes with sky-shields and automated weapons.
    With their entire population easily hiding behind these bases, or just a skeleton crew while the rest cap the lattice the enemy has to defend.

    "You have to destroy this superior position, then take this base, before another appears, somewhere in the hex, while they can cap your lattice base at any time during disrupting the entire cap if you get that far, since they mined orange rocks"
    "Oh, and those bases have automated everything, granting the builders certs during, after, and before any siege"

    And if that limit was removed, it'd be near endless battles in hell holes to then try to attack lattice bases before another appears.
    Heaven forbid if there wasn't a cap on said Hives per Hex.

    Only the overpop could siege both a Hive & Lattice base, before another could be built during that.
    Hell, imagine if the overpop of a map tried to build a hive, Good luck winning that.
    No tactical plan, nor strategy allows fast enough demolition nor defense of a hive & lattice base facing superior numbers of enemies.

    And all of this, is just for locking down hexes.
    For capturing bases? Hide it in a hell hole, defend it once fully built, watch the defenders have to attack a superior defensive position far far away from what they must also defend at the same time as attack.
    Watch them engage a fully automated base, from repairs to defenses, while the builders just need to focus on attacking a poorly designed lattice base, with a fixed position unlike the ease of relocating & building Hives in numerous remote locations hex wide.

    Any lattice takes less time than it takes to even kill a Hive, without lining up tanks with direct shots on its core, with most of those tanks inside the 'you will die when the hive detonates' range.
    If it locks the lattice out, the ease of building another Hive makes it near impossible to cap.

    If it was locked at 7, whomever places them down first, or keeps the majority has an Ace card.
    On maps, where specific lattice lanes are held hard, you could easily position one, and lock down the entire lane.
    Hold enough, and that's half the map, that needs no defenders outside of singular squad levels if that per Hive.
    Zerg the enemy's hives, with aircraft or not, rebuild the hives into massively fortified locations due to superior map positions on a specific rotation or capture, and ta da... near immortal Hive, keeping that lane dead expect for Allied conquest.

    aka hell no.
  8. adamts01

    I do like decent sized fights at hives because each one is a little different. Plus it gives vehicles something to do that isn't prioritising infantry. I do think that rule of 7 would have to go. Keep in mind that we're getting Critical Mass and populations will hopefully be more balanced, and even if they aren't then the over-pop faction will have to fight off the other two, so their hives might make that not too bad of a gang bang. And since these bases would be a stepping stone to the next fight, you'd hopefully see a mass of players working their way to take them out, and I rarely see a hive last long against even a small tank column. There could also be a rule that hives meant as connecting or blocking points need to be o a road or something, keeping them away from map boundaries and mountains.
  9. LordKrelas

    It's shooting an invulnerable wall after engaging turrets on hillsides , praying infantry can live long enough to kill the dozen modules before the 3 guys inside replace them, or kill the infantry.
    And if it's not that, it's likely sitting around, wondering where in **** is an angle to fire, or you're in a vehicle zerg wacking it.

    More Balanced? Delusion.
    5 guys in such a place, takes 2-5x their number to even beat unless the defense is moronic.
    Or the base for once, isn't in a hellish hole.
    Less people available, makes that ability to automate let alone defend it with a skeleton crew against entire squads, stronger.
    Think about, You need less, you get paid more EXP, and don't even have to do half the work the enemy needs to do, which also feeds you more EXP for them trying, succeeding & failing.


    Yeah, imagine if the side being slammed by the Hives, has to fight the overpop & the hivers..
    While the Hivers have to fight both as well. The hive needing less people, and is fully automated, will not feel this.
    The side needing the least troopers, in defending the hives than it takes to siege it, is obviously shredding the enemy's numbers.
    of which only the Overpop, doesn't need to care about.
    So in the end, the hive BECOMES STRONGER with less people available to send to attack it.

    You actually think you'd be able to attack the lattice base, after chewing at invulnerable base walls off in the remote parts of the Hex, before another one becomes active?
    By the time you manage that, one is already built, and waiting activation.
    If there isn't a cap on hives per Hex, it's already done.
    If there is a cap on hives per map, a shared one, whomever gets the hives can lock off 7 Hexes from the enemy for hours.
    That's 7 hexes, easily the entire front line, or the key parts to lock the entire set of lanes on their side.
    This means, the other sides have either a hellish battle through these points, to then take lattice bases, or hammer on the side lacking the Numbers and \ or these Hives; IE you sentence one side to be farmed by the overpop & the hivers, whom can't be capped.

    Ah yes, Vehicle spam, praying the base is exposed enough for even half the tanks to fire.
    Mind you, Ants see a mountain & ******* laugh.
    Roads? How the hell you gonna code it to not allow placement without a 'road' to it.
    They complain about not being able to place Hives around Lattice bases, to not being able to fire the Death Laser into bases.
    How much do you think complaints will rise, if every base needs a road to it?
    Specifically, a road that not only Ants can use, as otherwise it's no different from today.


    IE I do not like having to fight a battle for hours, for less EXP than the Guy who spent 10 minutes being given EXP for every action.
    And that's not counting the EXP for defending it, with automations, for repairs, and for kills.
    Nor the EXP for rebuilding.
    That's 2-5x the work, for not even close to the reward, and just to attack the **** lattice base?

    By the time the Hive is dead, which is enough time to literally cap numerous bases, back-cap, if not make it near impossible to break the Hive, the next one is done 10x over, or by the time the Lattice Base is even close to capped, a new Hive is ready.

    Somewhere in the Hex, easily preventing any way to engage it before the timer even finishes.

    Each is a little different.
    Some times, you get different paint on the walls.
    Some times, you see more crazy **** trying to break the module inside.
    Some times, you see the infantry die only 1028 times to the automated defenses, skeleton crew and other ****.
    Other times, you can actually see the base in the tank.
    Maybe you won't get ***** by the base's aircraft that can be fielded by the 5 man team stationed inside without losing anything.
    Maybe the 5-man team get bored of the free certs, when facing the 30 people trying to destroy the literally invulnerable walls.
    Or the modules, are poorly placed, so they actually die without replacement in a minute.

    The base battles, the ones that would lock down the lattice.
    They aren't different.
    They are near identical hells, with slightly different paint on the walls or maybe a different dirt & grass.

    Whomever the hell built the Hives, your Tank column faced, built in the middle of the road, just not anywhere near the actual spots.
    As if half of 6 tanks can even see the base, it ain't the real thing.
    As well, wtf do you call small? 3 tanks? 20 tanks? 60?
    Depending on your standard, 5 tanks can be small, while another considers 50 to be small.

    As well, for vehicles.
    The ******* battle is fire cannon at the same damn building for possibly hours.
    It's more interesting for infantry ffs, at least they see things move about.
  10. LtBomber1

    -If you want to defend against a hive easy, build OS base. If attackers then would like to have a Hive capture, the have to take out your base first. And a OS can cover more than one base...
    -The Hive base has to be set up within the enemy hex. The enemy has to gather cortium, build, and defend it. Plenty of time for defenders to actually launch a counter attack, disrupt the build up, or kill ants.
    -Every empire would get a small number of hives, 1-2. No hive spam.
    -Calling PTS changes, wall will no longer be invurnable
    -The fight is just about one base. After said hex, the Hive will be gone. Base can be attacked normal anytime.

    Argument against the few builders hold outs: If you let the same ratio of people camp a spawn room with air and Tanks and MAX, you can hold out a point of a base as easy. Trick is to not let it come that far. As on defenders side of a normal base, there are some bases where 5 compentent people can hold out against superior numbers easy by hunting down spawns. So the mechanics you fear are allready ingame on daily gameplay.
  11. LordKrelas

    Build a Construction Object, that requires a base to house it, more cortium, has a charge-up time, is labeled onto the map, requires a spotter dart, and is more easily built by the Hiving Force, let alone defended.

    As well, this means, every single battle is hinged on the incredibly cert-expensive construction parts, for capturing & defending hexes.
    With numbers allowing for easier destruction, construction, and near invulnerable base defense.

    In order to counter-attack before the base's entire defenses, stock-pile, and collection is done, you must find the base itself.
    And if you are doing this, you are not defending the lattice base nor building your own.
    Mind you, you are also some-how scanning the entire hex to find a vehicle capable of cloaking itself.

    1-2 Hives.
    Lock off two key lanes entirely or 2 of three warpgate parts.

    As well, PTS changes include an entirely different alert & point system.
    To hell with making those Hives also dictate entire lattice bases, to being nothing but minor details to a hex's defensive value.

    Oh yes, lets put Spawn-Camping, with the ability to defend an entire automated base with less people in the same sentence.
    You do not need anything major, nor high numbers to camp a spawn room.
    You need tons to actually destroy a base guarded by a skeleton crew.

    Barely any base on the lattice, if any at all, lets 5 people defend & kill dozens of people, including those in tanks easily.
    Let alone no base grants massively superior EXP to those people, for having mined rocks in non-combat zones.

    The Mechanics I fear?
    Sherlock, I build & attack bases.
    I despise the massive amount of certs for defending, and building, mixed with the one-sided uphill battle of it.
    Spawn-Camping doesn't require the enemy to literally outpop, out-maneuver, a skeleton crew while being rewarded less.
    Engaging a proper PMB however does.


    As well, learn to use the quote button, it helps you get responses on time.
  12. LtBomber1

    1) But can be build anytime, and precharged negating the Hive attack option at all.
    2) Air can easy spot them, and as soon as the first building is done, no cloak can help.
    3) Only possible when no lattice condition are allowed. I see you made good points against it, and i agree. Lattice condintion should be mandetory for a Hive-attack.
    4) The PTS new system is a crutch to nerf construction VPs only to cap a continent, jet dont make it obsolate. My idea is going the same direction, but the interaction of terretory-construction is stronger. As it stands now on PTS, you build those Hives well hidden, unattackable, and screw them once 2 VPs are in...
    5) Disagree, breaking free from a camped spawnroom is compareable to attacking a PMB.
    6) If you dont want a fight to happen, kill the sundies. Barly anything can stop suicide Engies, LAs, Libs etc. Infantry then is thinned out, no need to care for tanks. Tanks dont cap bases.
    Ants will have to come closer to the frontlines, making them high value targets. No more hiding in deep friendly terretory. OS can be fired once, so building such a base would be ok, as it does not force you to be attacked.
    7) That is the point: Defenders should expect a base to be build, disallowing it to build properly. More fights between bases, construction involved. I think the comparsion: Spawncamp-PMB is valid. Both require set-up time, force multipliers and allow a minor number of players to defend a position against a larger force.
    8) No hurry^^. I just used the wrong one.
  13. LordKrelas

    Yeah so can Hives across the entire Hex.
    The whole finding the base, dropping the Ants prior, is the bit where the cloak matters.
    As well, that means It's aircraft & Builders that determine whom can control the hex; No one else.

    Yeah as obviously, that lattice should be at least used once by the new "Hive, OS, or get lost" mentality.

    The PTS system prevents Hive VPs from dominating the Victory-Point system, which allowed quick-land grabs using Hive VPs to win easily, as well as provide a near impossible to stop Lead on VPs, that kept growing.
    Yeah, welcome to what every lattice base was, if it wasn't a cake-walk, when you have your 50% of VPs from hives.

    Breaking free.
    You never mentioned it was being the Defenders at a spawn-camp, that was comparable to the ATTACKERS of a PMB.
    That's a very specific detail.

    That's not actually how to make an attack not happen.
    That's how to try to stop the attack, in its tracks; It already happened.
    Tanks actually are what effectively kills sunderers.
    Anyone actually at the sundy can kill the enemy Engineers, LA's, and anything but the Liberator.
    I defend Sunderers, it takes one person. Only when a Tank or Liberator shows up, does it need more than One person.

    Ants do not have to come close to the front lines, to build bases inside the massive Hexes.
    You also know, that Hives have been built on Live, inside enemy territory so damn deep, and need nothing right?
    This states Hives have no damn given about allied, or hostile territory, nor care of supply lines.
    It's hell for the attackers, anywhere it is, regardless of the land owners.

    An OS forces anyone trying to use the God-almighty tactic of Hiving to award themselves a base, to destroy the OS system.
    If the Hiving side has their own, well look at that, it's whom has the most construction that can engage a Hex with the best method to win.
    As if the Hive even has a timer of any sort, it would have to be a long one, equal to the time it takes to engage.
    10 minutes? No hex will not be capped.
    30 Minutes? You can pray, but it'll be capped.
    OS system? One shot, then you go back to 30 minutes, which is enough time for a Hive to already have a lead.
    As well, all it takes is killing the OS darter.

    Whomever has the most people, will amplify the power of Hives.

    Spawn Camps require a minute, or less - regardless of defender numbers.
    Bases require a few minutes, and can take hours to destroy, with even a ghost crew of defenders.

    Force Multipliers, like tanks , barely can do anything against a PMB.
    Most of the work destroying a PMB, is forced to be done by infantry.
    Modules? Infantry.
    Walls? Invulnerable till the modules are dead.
    Towers? Tanks or Infantry, depends on position.
    Skyshield? Usually Infantry.
    Hive? Infantry, unless the exterior is finally exposed.

    Infantry do the majority of the work in a PMB, vehicles get to shoot some towers & the invulnerable wall.
    Much less, since it barely gives EXP, than when engaging a lattice base.
    As at the very least, if the enemy isn't 3 times fewer, you aren't going to also just explode every few seconds easily.

    You'd have Lattice, being dictated by the Construction system fully.
    Defense? Construction.
    Offense? Construction.
    Handling of those? Aircraft, Builders.
    Aircraft can destroy the ants, find the bases, and have the firepower in liberators to level them.
    Builders have the cert expensive everything, have the OS to attack & defend, and the Hive to capture
    - All for better EXP than anyone else.

    Whom is the minority? Pilots, Builders.
    Whom dictates the ability of taking the Lattice: Pilots, Builders.
    That's ****** up.


    Oh, well that happens.
    Thanks for making it work this time.



  14. DirArtillerySupport

    *sigh* I miss PS1 :.(
  15. LtBomber1

    I think my main point has fallen out of the discussion.

    1) I assume the change from PTS (Rep-module will no longer render walls in god-mode) will make it to live. This change will make attacking PMBs much better. Opposite to this, building is cheaper, but require more cortium to maintain.

    2) Building a Hive is meant to be an alterenative way to capture a Base/Hex. The capture time by this method should be far longer than the regular point capture. 20 minutes was used as example (5 times longer than regular capture). Regular capture via assault would still be the faster method.

    3) Only bases that are allowed to be capped via lattice can be capped by hives. Deep strike construction was not well thought by me.

    4) Hives can only be placed inside attacking terretory. As soon as the requirements are not fullfilth anymore, e.g. the base was captured regular or lost the last terretory adjectant, the hive explodes. Tagging the lattice lane of attackers alone does not interfere with a preset hive.

    5) One can think further and just allow constructions to be placed along the frontline hex. In this case, OS needs a charge up reduction.

    The scenario you showed is exactly not the thing that i want!
    I want construction have a role in direct combat. Construction happening deep in the back of the terretory with bases no one cares about until a strike team removes them with no resistant is a huge waste of potential. Having hives create not decreasable victory points to lock a continent is as pointless. On PTS getting those 2VPs is basically a joke to make construction not obsolate.

    Terretory control should lock continents, and hives can be a alternative, jet time consumpting method of doing so. Sure, you can build at the edge of a hex, but within the time limit defenders have time to fend off the regular attackers at the base, and then fight the hive or cap the attackers starting lattice base.

    Sure there are some points to discuss, but that is what this tread is for...
  16. LordKrelas

    If it's cheaper, the ability to actually damage walls, is disregarded by the sheer ease of replacement.

    Building a Hive, in a Hex to capture the entire hex, providing the Attackers with the defensive advantage over the actual defenders & owners of the Hex, grants them better protection, better defenses, anti-aircraft barriers, sensors, and more over the Lattice base.
    In addition, the Defense has to protect the original lattice base & assault this hive base, without any advantage at all, only a disadvantage.
    • They have to defend a worse-base at the same time.
    • They lose the entire defensive advantage, and must fight against an opponent with it, while fighting a Time limit.
    • The Hive's location can be anywhere in the hex, and rapidly rebuilt.
    • The Hive's defenses can be fully automated, freeing up attackers to do anything they wish.
    On lattice bases, the defense can have the advantage of being the defenders.
    They also have the Timer on the Offense's side, not the defense - Whom can more easily hold, or delay the enemy.
    With PMBs, that timer is on the Hive's side, with the array of delaying options.
    With the glorious bit that is the Hive explosion easily killing anyone who detonated it.

    As well, with the Hive, the Defenders have to come to you, preventing them from being able to set-up at all, to defend the base.
    While the Attackers can set-up as long as they like, arm the Hive when ready, and simply sit there, stealing the Hex from anywhere in the hex while using automated Defenses to bolster themselves.
    Every possible advantage, and they are attacking - Any lattice cap is far more vulnerable than this.
    Any lattice cap done with certainty, would be unstoppable with a Hive.

    Same issue with the rest.
    Expect the warp-gate at least won't be capped by a Hive in a random hell hole.
    But you will have to assault countless bases, that only need to delay by surviving to cap the base.
    To put that in perspective, imagine if the attackers of a lattice just had to put a sunderer in the enemy hex, and keep it alive.
    If the defense, can't leave their base, find it, and keep the sundy down, while the enemy has every advantage possible, they lose the base due to an external force sitting still & defending a single piece of land inside the entire hex.

    Any position on the map, that allows a near invulnerable or simply long enough TTK on a Hive, would be impossible to prevent without a zerg if that would even work.
    Any force large enough or with any numeric advantage, could Hive multiplying their present advantage even further.
    As any defenders would have to face them with a numeric disadvantage, and without any walls, turrets or even cover for themselves.
    IE even more screwed.

    The OS system one shots anything in the radius.
    Being able to charge or recharge faster, means the time allowed to assault or build in-between blasts is less.
    Amplifying the power of any PMB with an OS system used for defense or offense tactics.

    Like the Hives, being built to cap bases with a Timer.
    Anything that delays destruction, just makes it simpler to defend.


    You don't have hives in a direct combat role, by them providing a superior defensive position, a superior & safer capture method over the lattice.
    You want direct combat roles for them? Have them provide some buffs, of some manner to the local hex or even several hexes.
    Now they have a direct affect on all allies or enemies in those regions, providing a Tactical advantage.
    And a reason to be engaged by any enemy, or defended.

    • VPs? Overshadows the lattice VPs which are harder to get, and vanish easily.
    • Capturing Bases? Has superior defenses compared to the lattice bases, and with the Timer on the Hive's side, it becomes the only way to ensure a capture.
    • Any capture able to be done, would be even harder to stop if at all, with a Hive.
    • Any failure, still feeds the Hive builders EXP in rebuilding.
    • Any Hive, robs the original Defenders of all defensive advantage, and puts them in a severe disadvantage while also putting a Timer on them to destroy a superior defensive position.

    VPs, were non-removable, and all you could do against Hives making VPs was to delay the VP.
    Any VP earned was permanent, and had no cap.
    Any hive destroyed, just slowed the rate of VP production or delayed it; Multiple hives accelerated the VP production
    If it was at 99% it stayed there.
    If it was at 50% it stayed there.
    Given how a Hive's construction & feeding of it, provides a massive amount of EXP, let alone defending it, just added to the futility of destroying one.
    You destroyed it. Great, now they have an excuse for more EXP, and will begin right where they left off.
    You delayed it, for maybe 10-20 minutes.
    That's all you did; and it might've taken hours to manage it.

    And with it capturing Hexes.
    You get the defensive advantages of a PMB, with the perks of being a Defender, with the Timer countdown requiring your destruction, while having the Superior position that you choose yourself.
    The Timer begins when you are ready, and all you need do to win, is to survive for it.

    The defense of a Lattice base, the Timer is against you, you must act to halt it, reverse it, and keep it from being active.
    It starts when the enemy has breached the base.
    And the Timer can be reactivated countless times - near endless till the battle moves.
    Defense works around that Timer, Offense just needs to hold the points for it.

    I'll put that in a direct comparison.
    A Hive's Defenders, need only hold a superior position somewhere in a Hex, for a set period to win.
    The Attackers, must destroy the superior position before the Timer expires, a position somewhere in the hex.
    It's slanted entirely on the Defense's side, which need only hold the superior position or simply delay the enemy at all.
    The Defense has Time & the superior position. The Offense has nothing.

    In a Lattice Defense, the Timer is on the attacking team's side.
    The allied defense, has to hold & engage the enemy while racing the timer.
    The attacking side, needs to attack & capture for a set time - delaying the defense if nothing else, to win.
    The Defense has the superior position, The Offense has Time.


    Not to mention, the issues of defending a Lattice base, also affects the Defenders of the Hex.
    As they must not only attack a superior position, but also hold an inferior position at the same time.
    While the PMB's defenses can be automated, the Lattice base can not.
    While the PMB's position is player determined, and player constructed, the Lattice base is static & visible on the map completely.
    The PMB's layout is dynamic, the Lattice base is static - and completely visible on the map.
    PMB spawns are Dynamic & unlimited in number, The lattice Base is static & limited.

    The Offense against a Lattice Base, has the Sunderer as a spawn point. Exposed Entirely.
    The Offense against a PMB, has the Sunderer as a spawn point. Exposed entirely.
    The Defense of a Lattice Base, has the Spawn Room - and in some cases a Sunderer, exposed entirely.
    The Defense of a PMB, has the Sunderer & Shielded Spawn Tubes. Encased inside Walls.
    All sides have squad specific beacons.

    Just in spawn options, The PMB wins.
    In defense of those spawns, the PMB Defense wins for Offense, and only loses to the Spawn Room for sheer durability.

    With the Timer on the side, with the best chances to survive for the entire duration, without any extra effort.
    The Timer is just a mockery, given unless the other side is superior to the extreme, you will win.
    And with that reward for that defensive victory, being the capture of a Lattice base from the actual Defenders...
    It's a bad joke.
    "You are attacking, so hold this better defensive position"
    "You are defending, attack this better defensive position"
    "The Timer expires, and that enemy base isn't destroyed, the Defense loses"
    The best part, it's the reverse of any lattice battle - The Defense has the defensive advantage, with the Offense has Time.
    For your PMBs, the Attacker has the Defensive advantage as well as Time.

    That basically means the Attacker not only has all the time, but also has defensive advantages.
    Add those together, and they have the best-chance to win, as all they need do is use their defense advantage to just delay.
    No Lattice defense can simply delay to win - The battle never ends till they push the attacker's own Lattice base.
    PMBs? The Battle is won, if either the Lattice falls or the PMB lives.... for the attacker.
    The Defense has to defend the Lattice for the usual eternity, and destroy a PMB at the same time, while racing against time itself.

    Aka Completely ******.
    If the enemy had any numeric or even ranged advantage, the Defense has negative chance to win their own hex.
  17. LodeTria

    This cannot happen until they've made sure that hives and **** can't be placed under the map.
  18. Corezer

    maybe repurpose the cortium tap?

    Also, as for the OP, I would suggest dramatically lowering the capacity of Silos and ANTs as to make cortium have a meaning. You would actually have to dedicate players to keeping cortium levels up in order to keep the hive online.
  19. LordKrelas

    Which means those with higher pops, are the only ones able to use the superior defensive capabilities of a Hive to cap a base.
    The logic behind this statement, is the ease of sending more ants.

    Mind you, I don't see an issue with lowering Capacity of the silos, but add in the Cortium Tap as well, so they aren't just these hours-long-without-an-ant during sieges, without even having to care or have any weakness they need to defend outside of the Silo itself.
    • Up x 1
  20. adamts01

    You really need to stop using over-pop as a counterargument to everything. As long as every unit drops with the same ability as his enemy, higher pop will always win. There's just no way around that. This proposal, my supply line proposal, creating/block lattice links..... They're all ways that smaller numbers can be clever to fight back against greater odds. Sure the enemy can use those mechanics too, but without them the only option left is nose to nose fighting over points, which the higher pop faction is sure to win.