Connery's newest fail favorite "A2AM"

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by SNAFUS, Jun 20, 2013.

  1. Tasp

    They are called A(ir) to A(nger) Missiles for a reason. Deal with it. I'll be sure to pull mine more often just for you OP.
  2. Corporate Thug

    You can use your own argument against yourself. Your top 5 weapons are 2 max weapons, c4(pretty win), pump shotgun and a sniper rifle. To me all of those except the c4 are like crutches when playing as infantry. Did you earn all those kills in your mossie dog fighting and not lolpodding infantry? If so then sure, A2A missiles would seem like a crutch but I suspect you don't want to give up your infantry farming to protect yourself against other ESF pilots farming those ESF A2G farmers.


    To be clear. A2A missiles are used when a pilot wants to specialize in killing air vehicles such as your shot gun and max weapons are used when you want to specialize in killing infantry. There is no difference.
  3. Kcalehc

    What's more skill-less than lock-ons.... Flares. Yep, hit F and missiles magically miss you and locks can't be made for a bit; now that's super skillz.

    That's not how flares work. The flare is supposed to distract the missile and make it detonate before reaching the aircraft, which also had to dodge away.

    Flares should be ammo based (and cartable to get more) so you only have so many, like 5 to start. Your HUD should give you an indicator of when a missile is fired and its direction (it has a radar lock, so your plane can figure it out) and approx. distance. Flare too early, the flare drops to the ground and is wasted, flare too late and it's going to hit you anyway, flare and keep flying in a straight line like an idiot, the missile will probably still hit you. But flare in the right window and fly evasively, and you're good (at least till the next lock takes. (Freespace, from 1998 had this almost exact mechainic in it for lock on missiles, so it can't be that hard surely!)
    • Up x 2
  4. Bine

    I use A2Am on my mossie because it makes people rage. Rocket pods dont illicit the same tearflow that A2Am do. Besides, I admit, im not a good air pilot. I rarely fly my mossy for more than getting from Warpgate -> Fight. But I like knocking a reaver or scythe from the air once or twice before I go down. I choose to kill aircraft with my aircraft. You choose to **** infantry in spawn with yours. :)
    • Up x 1
  5. Lepalose

    First off, I commend you in finding my post in the dregs of this thread.

    In regards to myself, if you look at my statistics you will indeed find that I spread out my kills over a variety of weapons - once I get them auraxiumed. So yeah, when I have the TRV, MSW-R, Lynx, Armistice, etc. auraxiumed within a handful of kills of all those you list I think its pretty fair to say I strive for a balanced style of gameplay.

    Also to be clear, I jump in on air-to-air battles when I spot them. I prefer dog-fights over pod kills, and indeed my rotary is also auraxiumed because of that.

    Finally, what I said about A2A missiles is that they reduce the skill cap of dogfighting. They turn what could be a fun mechanic into a aim-assist style gameplay which benefits lower skilled players. There is no doubt that in close range, shotguns and MAXes are frustrating to deal with (because of balance issues), but they do not change the essence of gun-play mechanics anywhere close to the degree that A2A missiles do.

    Sorry to disrupt you trying to turn my argument against me.
    • Up x 2
  6. Corporate Thug

    I was simply trying to point out there is no difference between a shot gun and a A2A missile. The majority of pilots don't have missiles to pick you off at range, while the majority of infantry don't have OHK or close to OHK weapons that are CQC kings. Adjust your play style to deal with them. It Is the way you choose to look at things. You call them a crutch because others lean on them, but who doesn't lean on something that is working for them? They are a crutch to you because they cripple your play style. Learn to adjust. High speed air frame and default afterburner fuel pods I hear are rather good things to have to avoid missiles. ESFs aren't supposed to be 1 build dominates all.
  7. Lepalose

    There are substantial differences between shotguns and A2A and it is laughable for you to equate them, particularly because they effect gameplay in very different ways. Devolving into a discussion about infantry balance though gets you further away from making any point about A2A missiles.

    The point of a crutch is that it allows you to do what you would not otherwise be able to do. In this case A2A is crutch for pilots who can't dogfight. I never said they were not effective. I am saying that they ruin a fun mechanic when it comes to air battles by lowering the skill cap required to engage other air targets. Can you be skilled and use them? Yup. But they are still ruining a fun mechanic of dogfighting.

    Also quaint that you're telling me to adjust. Of course I know how to deal with scrubs with AA missiles, they hardly "cripple" my play style as you suggest. The point of this discussion, and I am just repeating myself here, A2A missile users are reliant on a crappy mechanic in order to raise their level of play above their natural skill level and take the fun out of air battles.
    • Up x 2
  8. Corporate Thug

    Shot guns require little skill to use. Yesterday, some guy I've seen a million and one times who always has a shot gun but terrible aim was at an outpost. I've killed this dude many times before and did so yesterday. I was chasing some random infiltrator into a building and this guy with a shot gun runs around the corner I was about to turn. He missed 3 of his shots and managed to kill me on his 4th shot. He was very very low health and if it were not for him having a shot gun or had I known he was there he would have died as he always does. They don't require much skill to use and are somewhat effective in the hands of players with terrible aim.

    Shot guns and A2A missiles are very different weapons, I know this. The similarities in the way they are used are not much different IMO. Pilots have rocket pods to be more well rounded as players use LMGs Assault rifles and carbines for those reasons. A2A missiles are used for air superiority, to deal with air vehicles. Shot guns are used for CQC superiority, to kill anything up close. The point is people use these to specialize and when you specialize in a specific form of combat you should usually win against someone not as specialized in that form.

    A2A works best when there is distance as a pilot has to take time to lock on to you so if your up close who would spend those precious seconds not dealing damage? It's all about comfort zones. I'm not going to engage a ESF at distance if he has A2A missiles as I would not willingly engage a guy with a shot gun up close. I would close the distance and then engage if I were flying just as I would engage before I got too close if I were infantry to be in my comfort zone.

    Basically, Use afterburners to close the distance and kill them or use them to outrun the missiles and flee. If you say you know how to deal with them then why is it you also state it lowers the skill cap if skilled pilots can clearly overcome this mechanic and make it an invalid option that will not win noobs any fights? My analogy might be a bit of a stretch but it's not that far off and I don't require an answer to this question.
  9. Lepalose

    You analogy and discussions do not address the point. The A2A missiles are currently implemented with a poor mechanic made to act as a crutch for skilless pilots. Let them earn their wings by dogfighting. Let them specialize with dog fighting frames and afterburner pods. Don't give people who should learn how to fight in the sky a way to avoid getting better and call it "specialization", when its really just dumbing down the fight.
    • Up x 2
  10. SNAFUS

    I am truly impressed how such a simple thread has struck the bleeding heart of so many players clinging to an imbalanced weapon. While almost everyone that defended A2AM as they are now are almost entirely sub par pilots. Which only strengthens my opinion that the lesser skilled players rely on A2AM

    A2AM are currently hurting the skill cap for flying in PS2. As flying has one of the largest demands of skill over any other aspect in this game. Allowing A2AM to stay as strong as they are now only weaken that and allow for a watered down experience. As I have said many times in this rat nest of a thread they need to be changed. Force pilots to keep the target within the reticule while the missile is in flight or revert back to old missile intercepting behavior rather then following our direct path. Which makes evading enemy A2AM near impossible in certain scenarios. I feel they need to be in game but a large change must take place other wise we will end up playing Ace Combat rather then PS2.
  11. ZoeAlleyne

    Change flares so they are not an infinite resource on a time, make it so you can have 5-7 of them or more with certs and they refill when you refill ammo. This would make Lock on missiles pretty worthless though. Or lower the flare timer, my lighting with smoke is what a 15 second cool down with 5 seconds of immunity. I am always against ways to kill vehicles that take no resources and some render for vehicles too. HA lock on missiles, and engi AV turrets especially. AV turrets need to cost resources or something, they are far too powerful to be free with no ammo count.
    • Up x 1
  12. Archlyte

    Because in the far future, air combat should only be resolved in the manner of 1917. Can we has scarves and goggles for our Spads and Fokkers?
    • Up x 2
  13. SNAFUS

    To be honest if they sold a red Barron outfit I would be the first to buy the dam thing ;).
  14. Delta102

    I believe missiles have way good tracking right now in that they avoid terrain, but I don't believe they lower the skill cap in anyway. Eventually anyone relying solely on A2A missiles are going to get into a fight with good pilots who use the rotary and they will lose because simply Rotaries do more damage than a2a missiles. A2A are passable in the current Air game but they are no substitute for the rotary.
  15. SNAFUS

    1v1 the skill statement is a non issue as A2AM users lose. But once used in more then one it gives an almost unavoidable way to damage ones enemies due to the flares timing and tracking capability of the missile. With the very high skill ceiling involved with flying having a weapon system that is almost a guaranteed hit is to powerful. As Corewin said I can engage three subpar pilots and out fly them and kill them. But you give three subpar pilots A2AM and I don't have terrain to LOS them I will lose the fight hands down. As I will pop my first flare then be immediately locked and finished.

    I am ok with A2AM being in the game but the mechanics to avoid that weapon system aren't good enough to balance the field. It strips the skill cap from flying allowing a point and click system that favors bad players. If we add some skill to the A2AM or at least bring back the old missile intercepting behavior we can have a more balanced and skill determined fights. Not who can pull the most A2AM and click first.
    • Up x 1
  16. phungus420

    You, Snafu, and Corewin need to get off your high horse here. Lowering the skill cap is the goddamn point! That's the one saving grace of A2Am and you all continuing to ***** about it means you are either ignorant of the whole purpose of A2Am or just elitists who can't see the forest through the trees.

    A2Am would be perfect if they just lowered the skill floor and made noosbs dangerous, the problem is that they also raise the skill ceiling. Sythes and Mossys get extremely overpowered in the hands of an experienced pilot with A2Am, even lone wolfing. And all ESFs in groups get OP when rolling A2Am (especially given the efficacy of the rotary against ground targets).

    You want to get A2Am fixed, then ******* use them. Start wreking people's days by demonstrating how OP they really are, start showing the devs the real data so they can get a sense of how OP these things are. So long as the "elite" pilots stick with their asinine video game entitlement bushido and refuse to use this weapon that will make them more powerful and absolutely wrek the air game and force a fix, so long as you continue to perpetuate this myth that A2Am are noob only weapons, they will never get fixed.

    A2Am working like they are now is mainly because you, and players like you, are too ignorant and elitist to actually use them and show what they really are. A2Am are overpowered nonsense that makes noobs dangerous in the air (a good thing, despite how much you whine), but at the same time they make good pilots stupidly overpowered and that's the problem with them. Stop focusing on the one good thing about A2Am like it's a bad thing, try them out and demonstrate just how broken they are if you want things to get fixed. Otherwise you lot need to just stop your whining, because every passing post I see from you lot shows you just don't get it.
  17. phungus420

    This is why I use A2Am, this is how they make me feel:

    That's the problem. You lot (Snafu et all) need to get your heads out of your collective ***** and realize them being OP overall, at all player skill levels if the issue, not some made up entitletement you think you have to the air game.
  18. GSZenith

    it is called warthunder and is free!
    • Up x 1
  19. SNAFUS

    Phungus have you actually read my previous comments? I don't mind AA being in the game but they have been bumped up recently due to the minions clammering for a buff. I don't use A2AM due to it is unneccary for me to perform my role as a A2G/A2A ESF. There is nothing wrong with me bringing up an imbalance rather then abusing it. As this subject has gotten a lot of attention and responses it will be looked by the devs. I personally don't try and abuse the newest and hottest things to show they are broke. And that is a personal choice to not partake of a weapon system not ignorance. It is a cheap weapon system and that will likely never change, due to SOE's catering to the lowest denominator. Doesn't mean I should be forced to abuse it to change how things work. Me speaking on the forums does a much better job in my opinion as this makes it a very public and vocal issue. The stats will come and my addition to them would make little change. No need to rage over different approaches to a problem.
  20. ZoeAlleyne

    A2A needs to not path around mountains and towers let alone go through them as they currently do. They were fine when you could shake them, or flip around and fly at the pilot who was using them to break the lock but no you cannot shake them at all. Not to mention you can out run them however only the stock mossie is fast enough to out run a missile, my reaver cant unless I have racer 2 equiped.
    • Up x 1