Concept Art of Unreleased Ground Vehicles

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Arkanakaz, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. Arkanakaz

    Both the Colossus and the Bastion were shown as official concept art before entering the game, so there is a good chance that some of the stuff that is official concept art now will be in the game soon. I write this post because I want to put my opinion on the possible ground vehicles that might be coming to PlanetSide 2 before all is decided!

    Ground vehicles in PlanetSide are the side of the series I like more than any other, and it's been that way since 2002 - before the first game came out. I know that the development team has expanded, meaning that things such as new vehicles are on the cards again. So knowing they often go back to the official concept art for the inspiration for a new vehicle. So I had a look through the internet to see if I could second guess the vehicles that might be coming out next. So below I am putting my thoughts on vehicle balance of different types of vehicles, so I can get in with some advice on the vehicles that exist in the official concept art, before the vehicles are announced and things are set in stone! Feel free to add your own opinions in the comments.

    So what to add? New vehicles coming into the game need to fill a gap in the market; a role to fill within the game, so people will spend their nannies on them at the vehicle pad. That way they get the use that we all want, rather than use the development time to make a vehicle that is going to get little use. That's the thing about the Colossus - it will get very little usage. It has a resource cost beyond the normal Ninites, you need to be in an outfit to pull one and when one does get pulled there is a scramble to get in just a few seats. Think about what percentage of the time the average player will spend in the Colossus, even if they really want to spend time in it - a fraction of 1% at most.

    Compare this to the Lightning, main battle tanks and the Harasser. All three of these vehicles are heavily used, as they are vehicles that can be taken straight off the pad and into battle, at almost any time by anyone, with the Nanite cost being the only restriction. This is a market that could do with another vehicle to add variety to the vehicles used in ground combat, which is lacking at the moment.

    So players don't like dying, especially if they take that X number of Nanites they spent on a vehicle with them. What can reduce this inevitable frustration is the ability to avoid deaths, that way at least people feel that they could have done something different. This not only makes things less frustrating but also adds strategy and depth to the game. When they die some players get frustrated; but the frustration of an unavoidable death is avoidable, the frustration of an avoidable death is unavoidable - if you follow.


    Two good general rules are:

    1. Vehicles that are slow and bad at getting away should be the strongest in vehicle Vs vehicle combat. Likewise as vehicles get faster they should get weaker at fighting other vehicles. This avoids the unavoidable death situation of - "If I try to escape I am too slow, if I try to fight I am too weak".

    2. No vehicle should be so weak that it can be destroyed before the driver has a chance to react. Low vehicle health pools and open cockpits lead to almost instant death - this is unavoidable and these vehicles are not suitable for fighting with.

    So with that said here are the possible upcoming vehicles with my commentary. Feel free to add you own in the comments below.


    One Man Combat Vehicle

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    The Fury from PlanetSide 1

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    From vehicle artist who worked at SOE for a bit
    Source: http://shawnstone3d.com/

    The Flash was split into three vehicles in PlanetSide 1. One had an AV gun, one had an AI gun and one had no gun but could cloak. Although in the above picture the driver has no cockpit, in combat it was not possible to shoot the driver off the ATVs. That game came out in 2003 which is the reason for that. The advantage though was that the ATVs with guns could be used in combat as the vehicle had a bit more health and the weapons attached were pretty powerful. This is a playstyle that is missing from the sequel. Time to kills on infantry are too short to have exposed cockpits, so lets have it enclosed. The AV guns can be powerful as the vehicle will have little health so will not be creating that "you cant escape and you can't win the fight situation", and its health would stop it from being able to take out a lightning for example. It could fulfil an AI role with that weapon type equipped as there is a place for that on the battlefield now that tanks no longer have their one-shot-kills on splash. Maybe if it came with shorter ranged/less accurate weapons it would take on that fast, up close and personal role that is missing from the vehicle combat at the moment.

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    Lightning Mk2
    Source: https://www.deviantart.com/ukitakumuki/art/PLANETSIDE-2-Pre-Viz-M100-Lightning-317278784

    This official concept art has been around for a while. The lightning gets a lot of use in terms of how long people spend in the vehicle. A variant would get a lot of use for sure. The balance of the existing Lightning could be adjusted to make a clearer separation between the two when it comes to different attributes.

    Two Man Combat Vehicles

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    These three could be either one or two man vehicles. If they were smaller one manned vehicles, they wouldn't be filling the same role as the Harasser.
    Source: Roel Jovellanos Tonal Beats Blog - can't link here as it gets sensored, so you will have to use google.

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    These seem less developed but were options at one point.
    Source: Roel Jovellanos Tonal Beats Blog - can't link here as it gets sensored, so you will have to use google.

    I think that the driver gunner vehicles are already in game so there is little need to add another. The Main Battle Tanks cover the slow powerful role and the Harasser covers the agile skirmish role. Another vehicle of this type would add little different to the game in my opinion, in comparison to some of the other options of what could be added.

    Three Man Combat Vehicles

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    This was the Common Pool Deliverer, there were eventually three empire specific variants.

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    Don't know what it was but could stick two guns on the top I guess. Unless that became what the ANT is now.
    Source of above was PlanetSide 2 artist on twitter: https://twitter.com/PS_TRay/status/451069116313391104

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    Open cockpits equals a quick death in PlanetSide 2.
    Source: Roel Jovellanos Tonal Beats Blog - can't link here as it gets sensored, so you will have to use google.


    For those who didn't play the first game the deliver was there from the beginning. There were also empire specific variants that came along after launch, that added the option of the deliverer with empire specific weapons. They were great vehicles although a little underpowered in the first game. They added to the MMO feel of PlanetSide having three in a vehicle and made it more worthwhile for a driver to drive and not kill as they could provide kills for two gunners not just one, like in the Harasser. It is the vehicle that I would most like to see in PlanetSide 2. When it comes to the balance I think thought would be needed. If a ground vehicle like this were to have two anti-vehicle guns then the DPS might mean that it would be able to take a tank on, and would be fast enough to prevent an escape for the tank - to be avoided.

    So I recon anti-infantry and anti-air weapons are the only weapons this vehicle should have. They could do damage to vehicles as well, good damage to the softer armour of the Harasser, but not so efficiently as to make tanks obsolete.

    This type of vehicle would fit nicely into the current meta of the game as tanks have lost their one-shot-splash kills, so there is room for anti-infantry vehicles, and also there seems to have been an increase in the air-to-ground attacks so anti-air weapons, perhaps more in the style of the more versatile Walker, could help against the heavier air targets that have become more common recently.

    Four+ Man Combat Vehicles

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    For those not in the know the first Sunderer in PlanetSide 1 did not have spawning and just had two guns on top. They then replaced it with empire specific variants that had 6 guns in total, as well as an EMP blast that could disable other vehicles weapons among other things. Even with the new guns they were not that powerful, as their health pool was too low for the number of people in the vehicle. The damage from each gun was also low, although if you had all the top guns shooting at the same target you could get some good damage - but each gunner could dish out more damage doing other things. The NC variant, the Vindicator is the one in the pictures.

    In any PlanetSide game it is hard to have any vehicle more than two gunners, well balanced into the game. This is because each gunner that enters any vehicle that is going to be used to just combat, has to be adding about the same amount of damage as if they were doing something else, to make it worth while them being in the vehicle. If you have 3+ gunners with that amount of fire power the vehicle will eat up everything else on the ground, unless it comes across an organised group. This can be avoided if the vehicle is very large and slow, but I think we have that now in the Colossus, that has been balanced well into the game all things considered. Personally I think a vehicle with less people that would be a more common spawn off the vehicle pads, would be a better addition at this point, now we have the Colossus.

    So those were my thoughts on what could be coming up, and please say in the comments if you know of any more official ground vehicle concept art that is not in this post, or if you want to know anything about the ground vehicles in PlanetSide 1 - I remember them well.
    • Up x 2
  2. Demigan

    quote="Arkanakaz, post: 3555199, member: 22111"]Two good general rules are:

    1. Vehicles that are slow and bad at getting away should be the strongest in vehicle Vs vehicle combat. Likewise as vehicles get faster they should get weaker at fighting other vehicles. This avoids the unavoidable death situation of - "If I try to escape I am too slow, if I try to fight I am too weak".

    2. No vehicle should be so weak that it can be destroyed before the driver has a chance to react. Low vehicle health pools and open cockpits lead to almost instant death - this is unavoidable and these vehicles are not suitable for fighting with.

    So with that said here are the possible upcoming vehicles with my commentary. Feel free to add you own in the comments below.[/quote]

    3. The vehicle has a solid support purpose, making it rely on allies while it's allies are encouraged to protect it and rely on it potentially sacrificing themselves for it.


    I think it would be better to alter the Flash. For example the stealth module could become an infantry-fighting module that simply takes the ability of the owner and boosts it.
    Infiltrator: Stealth. Change the stealth so that it takes a few seconds to cloak and decloak in which you cannot fire and alert enemies that you are nearby. The point of the latest change was to make sure players couldn't use a 2/2 Flash, decloak and unload so much damage they could virtually kill a vehicle with one salvo from behind. Unfortunately they only changed it so that the players take longer to cloak again after a decloak, so they hurt the other playstyles of cloak flash but didn't do anything about the thing the devs said they were trying to fix.
    Heavy Assault: An overshield for both the player and Flash. Possibly an always-active small forwards-facing shield with some health for better combat capabilities.
    LA: While in the air the Flash acts like a glider. Using the spacebar you can gain height using jumpjets on the Flash.
    Engi: Let it deploy into a partially shielded turret maybe? Or a supply station that offers AOE repairs to tanks and MAX's nearby+ammo for infantry?
    Medic: Has several AOE heal pulses before it depletes. Doing several pulses in quick succession will also revive nearby players.

    If this one becomes more of a support-platform it could easily help. You have an AI+AA support role with the rotary canon, which could be switched out for auto-canons meant to deal with infantry at long-range or with lightly armored vehicles like the Harasser and ESF.
    The ability slot could then be taken by the ATGM, which could also be replaced by various other weapon types. The ATGM deals a ton of damage but is limited in overall DPS by the cooldown. You could equip variants with laser-guided missiles (like Hornets and Engi AV turrets), or a rack of several rockets. Other variants would include things like a vehicular concussion shell/rocket, which when it hits would temporarily nerf the speed and maneuverability of the target. Or an EMP shell that can be manually forced to air-burst, leeching the abilities and shields of those within the AOE (including vehicles and aircraft). Would be handy for an AA focused variant that uses it to prevent ESF from afterburning away while they fire at them.



    What would these add to the game? The concept art doesn't really add much. I think these could be focused on Mechanized Infantry roles: The vehicles can deploy and infantry can pull up to 4 weapons from a terminal. These weapons are powered by an internal energy supply within the vehicle, and the weapons only work within 20m of the vehicle. Go outside that range and the weapon will be returned to the vehicle after 10 seconds. Perhaps allow infantry within 100m to spawn on the vehicle if it is deployed, allowing it to recover dead infantry more easily.
    The infantry (1 driver and 3 passengers) get to pick from a variety of weapons, such as manually guided rockets, flamethrowers, high-powered chainguns for AI etc. Some weapons could also be defensive in nature, such as a large deployable shieldwall or a larger version of the merit skyshield. The idea is that the vehicle will drive up to an area possibly alongside an allied armor column, then the infantry can immediately hop out and provide their firepower to protect against C4 fairies, aircraft attacks or add their damage to the vehicles. However since all 4 weapons draw from the same powersource (the vehicle) and they can't go further than 20m you need to really coordinate and keep an eye out that you don't waste the energy supply an ally might be using.

    Additionally such vehicles could be used as mini fire-support bases. They can deploy and from the back a small Flail or similar weapon pops out along with a terminal. Players can buy a target-painter from the back like this one:


    The advantage of this type of painter is that it's visible for everyone before the player uses it, then when it's "active" it takes a moment for the shells to arrive (unlike the UT version). Add in things like the shells whistling before impact and players can anticipate these attacks.
    There's lots of variations to these type of fire-support weapons. For example: Once the target-painter is used several guided missiles fly from the vehicle straight into the air up to X meters. The missiles then arc down towards the target area, and have limited ability to change direction. The player can use the target-painter to guide the missiles to the target if it keeps moving, just don't expect to hit something fast.
    Other variations could include: The shell deploys a shieldwall perpendicular to the player's looking direction at the time of firing. Shieldswalls only block incoming fire and have health. Skyshield. Infantry terminal, which has a cooldown of 30 seconds after each use to prevent abuse. One-way teleportation device allowing players to teleport from the vehicle to the teleportation device. Aerial smoke generator, creates a large smoke field above the target area, blocking all spots through it and making it harder for aircraft to attack, the shell can be destroyed by small-arms fire and stronger. Minelayer, deploys bomblet mines over time that deal a small amount of damage, mostly used as area-denial as players are forced to shoot the bomblets before progressing or destroying the Minelayer. etc.

    I've made such drawings as well when designing things for work. The purpose is to simply spitball designs to see what fits and what does not. Here you can see that the Harasser wasn't even certain to have a weapon yet, as most designs do not even have one. They might even have used a Morphological map to assign points to each design to see which one of these quick concepts fits the best. The third from the top right is the one they picked I think. They could easily have used these to also say "this one has the TR vibe, this one is more VS and this one NC", but never actually went ahead with the variants.

    What role would these vehicles play? The deliverer+Vindicatoryou describe sounds more like a smaller Sunderer focused a bit more on combat than respawning. You could refocus such designs on support roles as well: It can carry a bunch of people and most will have turrets that can deploy a shield, shoot an EMP grenade great distances, perhaps you have a gun that is always "on" and whenever it's looking at an obstacle or the ground within X meters distance players can walk into a teleporter on the vehicle (even when it's moving) and teleport to that destination. There's loads of possibilities, but I don't see much use for a 2- to 6-turreted dressed down Sunderer.

    As for "open cockpit designs are death sentences". You could add regenerative shields to players in open seats and open turrets. That way players get the option to actually tank some crap coming their way. And it would be nice to get some more open turret design vehicles.
    • Up x 3
  3. Arkanakaz

    I like the idea of adding unique abilities to each class in the same way the Infiltrator has a special ablity on the Flash already. It would be a way to make the Flash more useful in combat. I know some people can get some use from it using the stealth, but it lacks a lot on the whole.



    I think there could be more variety when it comes to the vehicle weapons, and some of these things you mention are already part of the game in other areas so the means to do it seems to be there. If you look at the radar in a big fight you see so many lightings because they are the type of vehicle people like to pull. A variant of the lightning would get a lot of use and would add a good bit of variety.




    The gun in that video is a lot like the Flail in PlanetSide 1. I like imaginative ideas, I think they make it into the game they would be simplified so it is easy for everyone to know what on the battlefield is doing what.




    I agree that the bigger vehicles wouldn't add much at this point. The one in the picture was from PlanetSide 1, and I thought I would put it out as an example in case that is something that might be coming along in PlanetSide 2. In PlanetSide it was never fully balanced into the game and often ended up just being used for it's EMP blast - a shame really as vehicles with multiple gunners add the type of experience the PlanetSide series should be about.

    We could have some open cockpit vehicles - maybe just exposed to fire from behind, or with reduced damage of some sort like you suggest.

    Thanks for the feedback.
  4. Blam320

    I think the existing vehicles in-game should receive more balance passes, before we think about adding their ES variants or otherwise.

    For example, I definitely think the current iteration of the Lightning could get its missing coaxial machine gun back; it would definitely improve the ability of the Lightning to defend itself and act as a one-man escort or recon vehicle, making it a more viable option over the speed of the Harasser and raw power of the MBT. In the same vein, I think Harassers need to be less resistant to all forms of damage; in their current state they are far too powerful with their speed and ability to take several hits from a tank cannon.

    Though, there are two vehicles that absolutely, definitely must be added to the game, and that's an NS MBT and an NS ESF. Since NSO players cannot acquire empire-specific vehicles, they're left out of a lot of content. Adding NS variants for the ESF and MBT would provide NSO players much of their missing content, and possibly provide a benchmark for future balancing of the ES variants.
    • Up x 3
  5. Arkanakaz


    I agree that the Lightning Mk2 for the concept art looks more like the PlanetSide 1 Lightning - I think it would be great to have both in game and have them take up two different roles like you say. The NC and TR assault buggies would not be much different from the Harasser - VS one with the hovering would be interesting but will still fill the Harassers role in combat.
  6. Peebuddy

    I do love the idea of a lightning tank with dual G2A missiles and maybe a walker coaxial over flack rounds. It would require A2G fighters to run flares over fire suppression, which opens them up to enemy A2A fighters who'll run FS over flares. It would actually separate the two roles instead of everyone plane just taking FS and just eating lock-ons because they're very weak and limited range.
    • Up x 1
  7. Blam320



    I don't think both the Lightning in its current state and an entirely new vehicle that uses the Lightning chassis would work; you'd just be making the current Lightning even more obsolete. You'd need more changes to make them distinct vehicles.
  8. Demigan

    I don't think those vehicles would need to be added to the game. What reason is there? They would simply be available to all other players as well.

    What instead needs to happen is to make the current NS vehicles adequate vehicles in their own right. Currently ESF rule the skies for little more reason than "it's a fighter, so it has A2A superiority". At the same time when it attacks something they say "It's a ground attack aircraft" or "It can hover like a helicopter so it also fulfills a helicopter role". There's only justifications there, but no balance.

    The Galaxy should be a vehicle in it's own right even in an A2A or A2G role. It needs to have a unique method of attack compared to the other aircraft.
    The Valkyrie should also be a vehicle capable of a full A2A or A2G role unique from the other aircraft. Take away the ESF's helicopter role, replace it with a dive-bomber attack by giving the ESF bombs to drop and add the Hornets, rocketpods and other helicopter-style weapons to the Valkyrie. For balance the Valkyrie would simply replace it's rumble seats for weapon slots, allowing it to pick either a passenger role or an attack helicopter role. If it could also receive an omnidirectional afterburner with a short burn time and quick recharge it would really help this vehicle come into it's own, especially when it is also given weapons to deal with other aircraft.
    The Liberator should like all others be able to fulfill it's own role in both A2A and A2G combat. There's loads of options to do it for all aircraft.

    This way the ESF becomes less of a one-size-fits-all aircraft and the NS aircraft become viable options for NSO characters.

    Similarly the NS vehicles could use a broader range of options. Just pushing the Colossus from it's "F-you if you aren't in a rich outfit" role into a high-cost NS tank would already help. But also making things like the ANT and Lightning fulfill more roles on the battlefield. a variety of auto-canons could easily be made available to the Lightning, as could options like guided missile launchers (not the fire-and-forget type though) and specialist weapons like a flame-turret, acid-launcher, an actual electric lightning gun, a large industrial laser-cutter for short-range engagements etc. The ANT could also easily be expanded into a magnificent support vehicle. Allow nearby vehicles to use cortium to change their loadout (with a cooldown after each use). Make the ANT a Mechanized Infantry vehicle where a limited amount of players can use cortium-powered weapons while nearby the ANT, meaning they need to drive inside the ANT and then jump out to fire when they get near enemies.

    Why would the NSO's need any MBT (aside from getting the Colossus) or an ESF if the other NS vehicles are adequate for the job?
  9. Pikachu

    The missile does not have to be homing. It could be user guided with proximity fuze.
    • Up x 2
  10. Blam320


    The idea behind giving NS their own, unique ESF and MBT is so that they can be used to benchmark balance changes made to the Empire Specific variants, or to fulfill another unique roll.

    For example, the NS MBT could fill a role more akin to a tank destroyer; it's the go-to choice when you want to duel enemy armor, while ES MBTs stay versatile. Meanwhile, the Lightning just needs to be buffed and the Harasser nerfed. Specifically, Lightnings need their coaxial machine guns back so they're not almost completely helpless against, say, air when they're not using a skyguard, or against armor and infantry when they are using a skyguard.

    I believe I also proposed several variants of ANT in another thread; one is the Construction support vehicle, one is an Infantry Fighting Vehicle, and one is pretty much the same ANT as we have now, flexible.
    • Up x 1
  11. Demigan

    I think the Lightning is in a good state right now. Its the secret powerhouse that everyone in the back of their mind knows off but somehow doesnt appreciate in value. On Esamir this is the most obvious, as the owners of the techplant with access to MBT's did not automatically win (they changed it again didnt they? You dont need a techplant anymore for MBT's?).
    That said, you touch on a more prevalent problem: if you dont have AA you are boned when aircraft come knocking, making any flank attempt a role of the dice about being spotted and engaged or not. If you bring AA you've just nerfed yourself against ground while your chosen targets may never even show up and when they do they can just get out of there no sweat.
    All vehicles and many infantry loadouts should come with some basic AA tools. This could be as simple as being tougher to see and all the way up to having weapons upgraded to better deal with air. My easiest example is always increasing elevation range of HEAT guns and reducing damage against ESF so they dont OHK them. Lightnings with a co-ax designed for AA would be great.
    • Up x 2