Comment on new HC1 Cougar as of 04/10

At least acknowledge that in your post, else you risk sounding close minded and hyperbolic. Also, I edited my original response to you as to why the Cougar was changed.

I don't know what the other TR want and why people complain about the T5 AMC myself. I think I'll remain the odd duck since I prefer Lynx > Jaguar today and will continue to use it even though its turning to an SMG carbine, and I'll just skip this Cougar for the T5 AMC.

The Pulsar C is pretty sweet though, as always, VS get all the best infantry weapons! The Zenith is the new carbine I'm most interested in at this point.

I don't understand what you mean.
My opinion is high damage / low rof precision carbine is what we needed, because high damage weapons are inherently better at range than weapons with lower damage tier, even if they do same DPS overall. I love T5 AMC, but it's weaker than Razor and Pulsar C at range because of the lower damage tier.

I also liked the old Cougar, I would absolutely dig a 167/632 CQC Carbine, but it really should be an NC thing, TR already have more than enough CQC options.
In terms of carbine selection, in my opinion, TR needs two things:
1) high damage per shot precision carbine to compete against Razor / Pulsar C. If you feel like TR steps away from their *low bullet damage / many bullets to compensate* motto, then it could easily be readjusted to fit it.
For example, TR long range carbine could be twin barrelled and fire two bullets per shot. There's always a way to fill a niche and still preserve faction traits, only if devs were willing to actually work instead of copy paste everything.

2) high rate of fire CQC carbine with DPS to compete against Serpent / GD-7F.
To be completely honest, I don't feel like Serpent and GD-7F fit themes of the corresponding factions, and need to be readjusted.
New 632 / 167 Bandit seems exactly what GD-7F should be.
I don't like at all the idea of carbines with DPS of 143 * 845 / 60 = 2014. I feel like that's a bit too much.

Now out of those two things we're at least getting one, so there's that. I'm also pleasantly surprised that devs actually listened to feedback on this one.

Almost nonexistant horizontal recoil. It's pretty nice.

Sorry, what? Any NC carbine that drops off to 125 or higher as it's minimum damage is a ranged option, compared to TR/VS. While the TR/VS now or will have the Cougar/Pulsar C, the NC have far more options than TR/VS.

Agreed most of it, but NC will need a 167@680 to compete with the current lynx.

167@680 = 1892 DPS
Lynx 2.0 = 1893 DPS

I was talking about that specific post, and what i can understand from it.
But anywayz now that the TR a variation of the best NC long ranged weapon, the problem has been solved.

Well. My position is that "long range carbines" are useless and are in no need. What LA need are battle rifles.

1)TR got what they asked variant of Razor GD-23 (with better horizontal recoil). I don't care for that, you got a carbine which holds useless role Medium rangers are max what carbine users should use and that on rare ocasions.

2)Oh, I never liked GD-7F. 143/800 should be max tier. Anything higher rof should go down to 125 damage. No gun aside from shotguns should go over 2k dps.

Omg I would trade you the 7F for the Jaguar IN A HEARTBEAT

The 7F is fun, but that reload when combined with the damage per mag is just brutal and will get you killed a lot at worst, and get you a lot of Rebel kills at best. Compare that with the default Merc, which has lower dps (but not by that much) but is better at everything else. I especially love the no-downtime gogogogo playstyle it and the Razor allow because their DPM is good and their reloads are lightning fast.

I personally think the best non-X11 (king of all carbines NC freedom style wut wut) we have is the Razor, and getting a Razor seen through a TR filter is exactly what the TR need. Believe me when I say that you'll doubt this gun at first, and then you will fall in love with this monster of a gun that simply does not miss shots within 30m and has the rock steady recoil that allows great accuracy at all other ranges.

The X11 drops off to 143 damage but is maybe #3 on the best long range NC carbine list, behind the Razor and the default Merc. The mag size and velocity kill it in this regard, not that I'd actually change anything about it

Oh, my, yes! YESSS!

If you think, that 343 dps is not big difference, you're out of your mind. It's almost 21% more DPS than Merc.

Why did they reduce the ammo capacity aswell? The tooltip shows 35/210 bullets, yet it only gets 35/175 bullets..

Yeah, but what that translates to is the barest fraction of a second in real world TTK, and even then only up close. It's a gun that sacrifices far too much for what amounts to a buff into the realm of diminishing returns.

On the whole I think dps is a grossy overvalued metric. The moment you drop below 100% accuracy or are 11m or farther away from your target it all goes out the window. Factoring in things like headshots and players with the skills to have accuracies >25%, DPS is not only thrown out a window but it's landing in a dumpster fire.

I consider throughput (DPM and reload speed) to be a very important aspect of a gun because that's a much bigger boost to usefulness in a fight than a long-reload bullet hose is

Ill retract what I said about the Cougar until I get a chance to use it more. Doing some thinking, I realized it isn't fair to judge the weapon this early on. As someone who doesn't believe that stats are king, I should know better than this.

So, sorry.

175 + 35 = 210. It's a display thing. It shows 35 as the magazine size and 210 as the total ammo pool, but the reserve you see in-game doesn't count the existing contents of your magazine, so it shows 35/175.

Same thing with the stated patch change to the Reaper/AC-X11 stating the capacity was 144, yet in-game the reserve is 120. Because there are 24 rounds already loaded.

You know - back when every NC was complaining about TR getting the old Cougar, I had injected into the discussion that NC could shape what the Bandit might be like. I asked if NC wanted a 143 type damage weapon like the Jaguar.

NO ONE BOTHERED TO SAY ANYTHING!

NC now gets a 167 Jaguar-esque gun. It's perfectly fitting for them and suitable for the NC ethos. Jaguar is a 143 lead-sprayer, Bandit's a little slower and a little harder-hitting. The real question is whether the Zenith can function as a proper Jaguar-like gun for the VS at 143/30. Given that it gets a Compensator and both advanced rail attachments, it might, but it's hard to say yet.

There's still a gaping hole between T5 AMC/Razor Cougar and the rest of our close range carbines.


RoF is not necessarily a liability at range, but I understand what you mean. Combined with other stats it will be harder to stay on target with high RoF + CoF + recoil all mixing together. Firing in short bursts with a higher damage and accurate weapon is generally best for longer ranges.

But having poor TTK is a problem because you cannot pick your engagement range all the time. That's why I love the AC-X11: it's simply a beast at all ranges short of where sniper/scout rifles start taking over. I don't think having no answer to that is fair. T5 AMC is way too poor of a TTK for me to pull outside of very specific situations, and I'd pretty much never pull the Razor over an AC-X11 or Mercenary on NC.


As for the Jaguar, VS is getting an improved version of it so pardon me if I don't care about this "shouldn't have an answer to" nonsense. I want an AC-X11 competitor, or at least Mercenary, and the TR should have one. It's too important a style of weapon to just lack completely.

I can guarantee I will not be happy with this Razor clone. I'm extremely disappointed with the direction they've gone and if it doesn't change I'll still have no reason to play TR infantry other than when I can't pull a tank or MAX because our current carbines aren't enjoyable or effective for my preferred playstyle.

Exactly my point, just with different words. I just wish other TR players would see that too.
For me it seems so obvious that a Mercenary/Solstice/X11 etc. type weapon is missing in the TR carbine arsenal.
A weapon that is good at all ranges but excels in none, a true mid range weapon.

I wouldn't put the Solstice in the same category lol. Maybe you meant Pulsar C, although I think it's a step below AC-X11/Merc still.

No, i actually meant the Solstice, because with 698 rpm and 143 its exactly in the same damage range and the same playstyle.