Comment on new HC1 Cougar as of 04/10

Discussion in 'Test Server: Discussion' started by lolB0b, Apr 10, 2014.

  1. Cinnamon

    You think that this gun is going to be better with it's low velocity and it's higher damage drop off? Your opinion isn't really controversial to me just not very insightful.
  2. Paperlamp

    There's no reason NC need exclusive access to 167/600. It's more than enough having exclusive access to 200/500.

    Well it's not a great mid range gun, for starters. You will lose at medium range to most lower TTK guns with similar or better accuracy which includes most 167 and 200 damage weapons.

    It's only perk over such guns is lower vertical recoil and in the case of carbine vs carbine velocity, but rarely is that going to give you enough of an edge plus it loses a lot of versatility losing so much of its stopping power just to achieve reasonable horizontal recoil w/TR magazine size.

    It's overall just not a very good gun. The Razor I think is a better version of it, but even the Razor just isn't that great.
  3. MostlyClueless


    T5-AMC 143 at 10m dropping to 112 at 65m
    Cougar 167 at 10m dropping to 125 at 70m

    How does the Cougar have a higher damage drop off exactly? They're almost identical TTK at all ranges except for the 40-45m range where the T5-AMC has a 0.1 second edge (And that's a pretty good range for the T5 so not exactly surprising).

    Yes the velocity is lower, but the ADS cone of fire is a hell of a lot better to make up for it. Actually being able to hit your bursts at long range is kind of a big deal.
    • Up x 2
  4. Cinnamon

    If you only plan on using the gun on the firing range then velocity doesn't matter I guess.

    Lower rate of fire and higher start damage tier means that dropping damage tiers will raise the time to kill disproportionately more.

    If you have problem landing your bursts with the T5 AMC at range then I feel bad for you son. I got 99 problems but that ain't one.
  5. MostlyClueless

    Take the damage at any range outside of the 40-45m mark marvel at how hey, the TTK's are at their very worst within 0.035 seconds of each other (150 meters if you're wondering) You'd have to be shooting at around 300 meters to really get a noticeable difference and good luck with that.

    I'm guessing your definition of 'long range' isn't actually that long. I mean do you really believe the T5-AMC is on par with the Razor and the Pulsar C for long range gunplay?

    A tighter cone of fire allows longer bursts before needing a reset, which means more DPS. The T5's rate of fire isn't particularly useful at long range. It's not nothing, but it's not exactly going to make up for all of its other short falls compared to the Razor, Pulsar C and the new Cougar.
  6. Nakar

    This. Guys, the T5 AMC, Pulsar C, and AC-X11 were originally created as "ranged" carbines.

    Except the Pulsar C, they all sucked at it. However, with a series of tweaks and a reexamination of role, the AMC and X-11 are now both excellent midrange weapons with decent (but not exceptional) close-up performance. Try a Laser AMC/X-11 sometime, they're actually pretty good and still have great range out to middling engagement distances. They just can't fire as accurately, as far, or as damaging as the Pulsar C.

    So then NC got the Razor, which is better at actually shooting things far away. Less damage output than the Pulsar C but better starting accuracy and high velocity with a super quick reload. We now had a situation where:
    • NC and TR have a good "midrange" carbine.
    • NC and VS have a good "long-range" carbine.
    • TR has a good "mobility" carbine (the Jaguar).
    • NC has no 167 damage gun with ALS.
    The obvious design holes were that NC and VS needed mobility (75% ADS) carbines, TR needed a long-range 167 damage carbine, NC needed an ALS gun with better faction flavor, and VS needed a "midrange" specialist. Lo and behold, the Bandit is a mobility carbine with ALS and faction flavor, the Cougar is a long-range 167 carbine, and the Zenith is a midrange mobility monster. At this point everybody's getting precisely what they didn't have.

    The new Cougar does exactly what TR needed it to do. At the moment it's a bit of a Razor cut and paste but I'd like to see new stats in full (and actually be able to log on to PTS without crashes, SOE...) and see how the next week goes. I'd prefer a burst-locked SABR alternative myself (even if it's at 550 RPM, maybe make it a 3x) but we'll see how it goes. A Razor cut and paste is still more than good enough.
    • Up x 4
  7. MostlyClueless

    I'm with you on this, I was hoping for a Carbine SABR a-like, but I'll take a slightly different Razor.

    Then again, if the FSM of the Cougar is around 1x or even 1.25x the 2x burst might let you use it just like a SABR and that'll be pretty sweet.
    • Up x 1
  8. Nakar

    Also, I think it speaks a bit to design that there's really only so many ways you can do the "long-range" model on automatics.

    If you look at the midrange (performance optimal for ~20-60m) carbines, they're very different: AC-X11 is a slow-firing heavy-hitting beast, T5 AMC is a consistent DPS hose with lots of ammo, and the new Zenith is a mobile carbine with good ADS attachments and decent DPS output. Not so much for the long-range ones. The only real alternative we've seen is burst modes on the SABR (the Reaper's role is much like the AC-X11 and the Corvus is a slow-firing accurate weapon like the Razor). There's just not a whole lot you can do there. Problem is VS now has the same issue in ARs that TR has in carbines, but at least the NS-11A can fill that particular gap for them.

    Now for Engineers there's the alternative of the Battle Rifles, which are actually quite fun now. But Battle Rifles on LAs would probably be a biiiiit much, so I'm cool with everybody having a good unique factiony midranger and an effective, if boring long-ranger. SABR would be sexy but I'll admit I'm just saying that because the SABR is wildly overpowered and nobody seems to have noticed yet. ;)
  9. MostlyClueless

    To be fair it's no more overpowered than the NC's Reaper DRM or the VS's.... uh....

    Yeah the VS definitely need help with their AR's next.
  10. NoctD

    Plus they're going to ask 1000 certs for the Cougar, and the Razor/Pulsar C only costs 250.

    Not sure what's the attraction of the Cougar really, other that being a different version of the T5 AMC, likely with worse handling too.
  11. orbital

    SABR would be overpowered if it had full auto, or 3x burst. as it is, few find it fun or useful to burst and taptaptap the mouse at 600rpm.

    SOE changed a popular weapon, the Lynx, why didn't they just change the T5 AMC, an unpopular one instead to give more variation? or both? the T5 should have been in the Cougar's role.

    Cougar, not enough in the clip to make up for deficits. just like the Lynx got a damage per clip nerf too. SOE needs to put down the spreadsheets and do more real world balancing - I'm already dead before I get to the extra rounds in my clip, but THANKS anyway.
  12. MostlyClueless

    It's a long range carbine on par with the Pulsar C or Razor. Something TR don't have right now.
  13. Admiralty

    How are you guys even going on the PTS right now? I thought it was locked for all players hence the CTD on login?
  14. lolB0b

    Repeating that over and over again and ignoring what was already discussed here won't make it the truth.
  15. SharpeShooter

    the couger was awesome before! why did you all have to ******* complain about it? now we have a garbage NC wonnerbe carbine. At least before we had a STRONG cqc weapon that was good up to about 30-40m now we have a mediocre medium range carbine with the hipfire bloom of a yawning hippo! You're all your worst enemies.
    • Up x 2
  16. Nakar

    Actually negative FSRM means it's overpowered the more often it gets the FSRM, so full auto or a 3x burst would be stupid. Also it gets its great stats because it's locked to burst mode; if it had full auto it would have to give those things up. It's a better trade, people are just lazy and whiny about "oh no I have to click a little more."
    But his statement is factually true. You can't argue that it isn't. The TR does not have a weapon that is similar in damage and range profile to the Razor or Pulsar C, and the redesign of the Cougar on PTS is a weapon that is similar in damage and range to the Razor and Pulsar C. A number of people have stated a desire for that exact thing. Regardless of whether they wanted it, the statement (that it is something the TR do not presently have) is true, therefore he is correct.
    • Up x 1
  17. MostlyClueless

    We already have three strong CQC carbines that are good up to about 30-40m. Just use the Lynx/Jaguar/Trac-5. We didn't need another.
    • Up x 1
  18. lolB0b

    No, it isn't and you should also read the whole thread first.
    The T5 AMC is the TR's long range weapon and not mid range. I won't explain it again.
  19. d3adline

    Seconded, was really looking forward to it as my new goto carbine (ALS and SPA!) as it was a 167 tier allrounder with emphasis on close range, I really liked how it felt.

    I do like the new version as well but would have preferred the last one as it was kinda unique.
  20. SharpeShooter

    and we already have a good long range carbine just use the T5-AMC your point being? You do understand that 99% of fights happen between 0-40m yes? people seem to forget this simple fact!