Cloaking takes away the fun

Mmm. but you do see the 80% using it against the 20%. The original argument was that we need some imbalanced OP crap here so the underpop guy can use it verses the overpop. But that whole argument falls on it's face because the overpop gets to use it too. It was silly, shouldn't have been brought up.

That misses the point. It doesn't matter if the cloak has only 1 hitpoint if nobody can shoot at it.

Note: My primary complaint is with the infantry cloak.

I don't have much skin in the game on the vehicle side. As a neutral observer in that fight it seems hilariously dumb gameplay where one player tries to fight with whatever skill they may have and the other player is like "nah, I want to just use this mechanic instead of skill..." It's not an utterly skill less action but it gets results that are wildly disproportionate to the skill involved.

What you end up with is someone on the receiving end dying or losing an asset in a way that didn't really involve their skill. Any time you assemble this experience in a game it will be ****** for one player.

The people that crutch on this will defend it to the dying end of the game they are killing. New players get all excited about combined arms thinking it means tanks then they find out about the dominant quad bike. LOL. It's so bad for the game guys.

Give it a cloak, or give it a weapon. Just not both. There is still plenty of room for cheese to be had but you're going to remedy a portion of that bad player experience on the far end.

Oh I just decided to comment on what I saw. No, we do not need some imbalanced OP crap so that the underpop guy and use it against the overpop. However, I don't think the Flash qualifies as "imbalanced OP crap" because its much more of a glass cannon, but of course it doesn't seem that way to people who aren't paying attention when they get demolished by it.

But you can hit it. Lets take both sides, vehicle and infantry.

The Flash has to uncloak to do any damage to it. If you don't hear the Flash pull up in the midst of combat, sure, thats understandable, you were preoccupied. However if you don't notice it dumping you with 3 mags before you decide to turn around and hit it, thats on you. If you don't notice something sitting in your blindspot after it uncloaks and hits you even once, thats on you. And you only need to hit it once or hit near it like twice. Plus if you have a gunner, there shouldn't really be much of an excuse. Just don't underestimate anything. Anything at all.

On the infantry side, its more understandable how you feel. Yes, you run the risk of getting 1 tapped by a renegade or ran over by it. If you are the first target, theres nothing you can do. You probably didnt hear it in the midst of combat. Me, as an Infiltrator, I am coded to this. Y'know why Infiltrator mains defend Infiltrators? Because they don't die nearly as much to them. They know how to counter it because they know what they'd do. They know what to look for. They know that an Infiltrator is always watching them, even when one isn't. So how can you die less to a Flash running you over or shooting you?

Pay. Attention. Assume there is always one coming. Don't get tunnel vision on an enemy, because thats what we wait for. We don't necessarily need to take out full health targets. We'll just shoot you if you aren't paying attention, because then you are dead and our ally can move forward. Its very simple reasoning. Pay attention to who dies and to what at all times. If you know what the weapon sound is, you know what faction it belongs to, save for NS. Even more so, you know what class it is. If you now deduce that a Wraith Flash is in the area, look at who it kills next or just remember where your team is. Thats what I do. Make a mental note of who it killed and where they were, or just look on your screen and see the DED icon, especially if it was nearby. Then wait. Then shoot the guy when he comes back. Explosive darts on a Hunter QCX are very effective. You're welcome.

Its not hard for Infiltrators because we know what they are going to do, therefore even when we arent playing Infil, we know they arent all that much of a threat if you go look for them.

Is it any surprise that players who are mostly playing Infil aren't dying as much to Infil? It's almost like being invisible to the class that is focusing on visible targets helps you not die to them.

I honestly don't die to flashes. Or at least not enough that it's impactful in my gameplay. I just know they cheese and mag dump into tanks, parked sundies, and whatnot and that It's an atrocious experience for vehicle players and new players.

AGAIN:
Note: My primary complaint is with the infantry cloak.

But really man, don't do the "get gud" speech with folks or mainsplain how to deal with it. Assume folks have a few thousand hours and have spent a bit of time trying out that which they call OP before truly complaining about it. And please don't think there is something about being an infiltrator main affords secret knowledge of the class that cannot be learned some other way or with some time in the class. I get hackusated by infiltrators about being able to see them. I'm past needing tips.

There are a bajillion topics of balance. Some have even caught dev attention over the years. Even egregious ones like the old NC max

But not the cloak. Nope. The players complain. The vets. The noobs that depart. Anything get done? Nah, just give 'em a new gun that two shots with unlimited ammo.... it's comical at this point.

Is what it is. Consequences are what they are.

Exactly, so why on earth would you pull something that has no real weapons at all, save for a turret, or a bike that you can easily be shot off the back of? Everyone worth a dang is going to farm you if you do, because there are too many enemies backing up the big things with their own guns. People can be brainless at times, but they are not THAT brainless. The Underdogs are going to be the ones to pull Stealth and lean into it. If not to fight then to get away from the pressure.

We often say the exact same things without realizing it, about why the dominating team would be silly to pull an A.N.T. or Flash. I can get behind the Wraith being built in, and even ALL of the faction weapons being released as N.S. weaponry, however the change to the Wraith Cloak? The distortion field thing? Absolutely not. The bike is loud enough, visible enough, and I do not know if you have noticed, but cloaked Sunderers do the EXACT same thing already, and they are absolutely WORTHLESS NOW.... On Genudine, it is so rare people pull them now because the radiation bubble is so huge. They now opt. for the deployment shield. Even if you found a great hiding spot, the field tells EVERYONE where it is.... No.... Just no..... It is now a waste of certs.... And you would make Flashes the same way. Again they are one hit kills. The only way I would sign off on that, is if you made flashes 3 times more durable. The Wraith Cloak field doubled as a shield to reduce the damage of everything to both the vehicle and the driver by 80% while cloaked. Allowing it to take a full on A.P. tank shell, like everything else and still be able to get away.

The game is simply unplayable during primetime !

Try to counter vehicles - cloaker
Healing teammates - cloaker
Reloading - cloaker

I say if they can't take away revolvers from them, they should tweak the resistances for small arms fire in a way that they also die with two shots. They have the advantage of pre-aiming, every other god damn class should have the advantage of faster TTKs against them (And don't mention "LeSs ShIeLdS" - 100 points less is pathetic)

I don't think you understand the game as much as you think you do. You won't get kills because there aren't any targets, not because the cloak isn't strong.

EXACTLY ! They can ADS you while in cloak and no skill can counteract that.

The process of the game approaching unplayability by cloak is clearly accelerating. I notice that being forced by vengeful angels to become an infiltrator after being killed a few times by them is happening more often, I see other veteran players resorting to this as much. When I do it, I do not enjoy it, as it deviates me from the objective and from playing an otherwise pretty fair (clientside notwithstanding) fun and fast paced combined arms shooter.

Recursion informs me regularly that most ragequits I provoke happen after a headshot kill with a bolt action. Many of those are very low level players that get caught in the zero sum, spy vs spy game, and I often think of how many new players quit the game because of something they cannot see or defend against, and the effect it has on those who stay in the game just to become main cloakers themselves as a way to level up and stand a chance.

I main Ambusher, so I often pursue and C4 whatever moves, and seldomly I get informed of a ragequit after destroying vehicles or groups of players. Same thing with HESH, A2G and other farming tools, they have rock-scissor-paper counters that are not simply duplicating the tool that killed you. I know that venting here won't help, this broken issue has been talked about for years. The only thing you can do to bring about a change to this problem is to accelerate it.

PS: Do not feed the troll

You just fail to comprehend simple logic..... I desperately want to make fun of you for it, but I shall resist....

I will try this again..... If your team is winning........ And are destroying targets at a blinding rate..... What good is a CLOAK going to do you? Nobody is alive for you to NEED TO USE IT.... So it is a WASTE for you to PULL AN A.N.T. or even a Flash at that point. So to recap....

YOU.... ARE.... NOT.... GETTING..... KILLS..... BECAUSE..... THE..... STEALTH..... VEHICLE.... DOES..... NOT..... HAVE.... THE..... FIRE-POWER..... TO..... COMPETE...... WITH..... YOUR..... TEAMS..... FIRE-POWER..... Which will cause you to miss any prayer fueled shot you might have had for a straggler or two that a M.B.T. would have had NO PROBLEM nailing....

What the crap does Cloak strength have to do with that situation? NOTHING.... I swear.... some of you just, just... BEG for it....

And you actually got LIKES for that brain fart...... Read this techs.... THESE are the people you listen to...

no u

No one cares if a stealth ANT isn't getting more kills than an MBT, sitting in an 80-20 fight, shooting the few poor souls stepping out of spawn. What does matter is how those very same things can get kills when they AREN'T on the 80-20% side, as per your very own example.

If they are able to do what they do as the 20% vs. the 80%, why do you fail to see how that has a serious effect on 50% vs 50% fights? Do you actually think they suddenly become worse just because there are more teammates around?

On the vehicle side, it takes far more skill using a wraith flash than something easy like a lightning or MBT. You can see this on voidwell quite easily, the lightning AP usually sitting above than the Flash fury in VKPU, and FAR above the flash fury in VKPH.

For Cloaked ANTs, they aren't very good in vehicle combat at all because their weapons aren't the best. They are far more effective in being a c4 delivery tool. Turbo ants are generally better for combat, for that sweet ram damage.

The fact you can even entertain comparing a dirt bike and a tank illustrates the issue. Please see what you're saying.

That's for you vehicle mains to fuss about though. Dev already made a bunch of them quit with CAI. Now they suffer the indignity of dying to ambushes from someone crutching on a 50 nanite cloak. LOL. If you guys wanna play that way, knock yourself out.

Wonder how infantry mains react if you say them to them about tanks farming them. Probably cry for more HESH nerfs again.

I just shoot them and they die. It's not exactly complicated lol. They are basically free certs unless they catch you in a time of weakness.

Probably the same way vehicle mains complain about skybox drifters with c4. Probably cry for more c4 nerfs again.

No need to wonder. You're talking to an infantry main.

Tank weapons including HESH need a buff. They are pathetic. Infantry should absolutely fear tanks when caught in the open. Similarly Infantry need their anti-vehicle rockets buffed back to pre-CAI levels. Tanks caught in tight quarters should absolutely fear infantry.

I've no major complaints dying to vehicles. It's an asymmetrical contest by design and it works because the participant that's at a disadvantage has some control over whether they'll participate at all. Net result is fun (to some degree) for both sides no matter who wins.

Dying to a bolter that appears on my screen after the network has already registered their shot? That will never be fun for one of the participants.

Never, ever, not even once, did I suggest anything as stupid and pointless as a distortion field. That is the stupidest thing because it makes the cloak visible from really far away. I suggested a spontaneous distortion effect on things you walk by, not a whole bubble around you. It'd be random. Things may just look off, not refracted or have a glare to them, like light fractures phasing through a plant or the water you just walked or drove through is reflecting light weird. A whole new effect for Infiltrator detection, not that lazy attempt at it with the stupid cloaking bubble.

The same could be said of HESH, Banshee etc.

Well I am an infantry main and since half of my infantry loadouts don't have anything that can hit tanks (I think I use medic the most) and they can routinely 1 hit kill me from a mile away I tend to run cloaker a lot because it's near impossible for a far away tank to spot you. Strictly speaking I believe that heavy assault + shield + LMG is superior to SMG + cloak + less starting health. One of the main reasons I think this is because on a day when I'm playing more skillfully than normal a flanking infiltrator will ambush me on my flank, I'll have enough time to turn on shield, rotate around, 3 bullets into the head and win the fight, there are many factors why I consider this inferior, the muzzle velocity combined with the small magazine size means you have to be so close to the player and actually need to be a pro and chain headshots to be ammo efficient. Now CQC sniping is a different case because I think it is the fastest TTK and easiest to go on a rampage, that said it requires a lot of skill or else we would all do it, but then incredibly skillful players strafe and that don't hinge on CQC weapons can fight back fairly well enough.

I really do think there is a problem with tanks though, one of the first times I ever used the tank I was solo and I went on nearly a 50 kill spree, the tank wasn't even upgraded, it was just bare bones. I've been in a tank for all of about 1 hour of gameplay and the game tells me now I've clocked nearly 33 days and the longest kill spree outside of the tank I've ever gotten was about 15 kills while sniping and I snipe a lot if the situation presents itself. I'd even go so far as to say that heavy assault shield should be nerfed a bit as far as infantry vs infantry goes because I often pick medic just for the utility, but even when I pick light assault or infiltrator I just get picked off usually, so I often resort to heavy assault if the enemies are really good, I also think maxes should just be deleted, they don't offer anything good for the game. When I have taken time off from the game it's largely because of tanks and maxes.