Cloak is not useless

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by Loui5D, Mar 17, 2013.

  1. Astraka

    Pretty lucky there was an undestroyed turret facing those tanks, huh.
  2. Ztiller

    Except that if you watch in the beginning, it is destroyed and im purposefully sparing the engineer in order for him to repair it for me.
    • Up x 3
  3. GraphicJ

    NC with Giraffe cammo? Surprise surprise.
  4. X3Killjaeden

    No, you can't run right at a group of enemies as any other class without getting shot. And it's certainly not down to how many 20fps guys there are. I also frequently get 20-25fps only. If i hear non-friendly gunshots behind i am alerted and start hunting for the guy. Infiltrators can play the cat and mouse game better then any other class and it's hardest to get rid of them, unless they are bad and expect the cloak to do all the work for them.
    If you infiltrate an enemy position alone and expect to take out an entire squad on your own... you have to be skillfull or hope the enemies are really bad.

    If the cloak thing doesn't work, i wonder why there are so many SMG Infiltrators running around and getting alot of kills...

    Pick the right class for the right task. If i want to flank with HA, i have to make a huge way around the enemy position, with the danger of beeing spotted easily by aware enemies. And after i've been spotted everyone knows where i am and can't just get a second chance. It's an Infiltrator, what do you expect? Running in the front door of an enemy position just isn't what an infil is designed to do. If he could do that as well he would be way overpowered if he actually would behave like an infiltrator. If someone doesn't has the braincells that allow him to be sneaky, then it's the wrong class for him, simple as that. And if you don't want to be sneaky, its the wrong class as well.
  5. Dr. Euthanasia

    Probably because the SMG allows Infiltrators to get kills without relying on Hunter Stealth.

    The effect of having a cloak is largely psychological. It makes you try to sneak around, which naturally leads to more instances of flanking. The actual benefit that our cloak provides, however, is basically protection from spotting and selective visibility within a certain radius, something which I must remind you was only introduced in GU04 (outside of a certain distance, we no longer render).

    I'm loving how the only reason you die at the very end there is because you turn your cloak on. So much for that sound being hard to detect, huh?

    Regarding the Prowlers, though, congratulations! Is that the entire basis for your argument? "Infiltrators can be devastating when they sneak into enemy held territory with enemy tanks inside the firing angle of undamaged turrets they own"? Surely this is a situation which occurs regularly enough to justify playing the Infiltrator frequently and putting certs into it.

    I don't even know where to begin, really. You think that a whole platoon couldn't kill 6 tanks in 45 seconds? You think that 48 people couldn't kill 6 tanks, in 45 seconds? Are they all playing Infiltrator, in this little scenario of yours? I actually hope you don't respond to this, because I couldn't help but dismiss your proof just like you said I would. Sorry about that, but I can't read this without treating it like a joke. I know that's disrespectful and all, I just can't help it.

    It's probably for the better if we just continue this another day.
    • Up x 3
  6. Dr. Euthanasia

  7. Dr. Euthanasia

  8. Dr. Euthanasia

  9. Ztiller

    You're wasting your time. There is no way to convince these guys that the infiltrator cloak is good. No matter what you do or say, they will keep coming up with excuses for why it is actually bad. They'll cling to anything in order to not have to change their own playstyle. They cry that the class should adapt to them, instead of the other way around.

    Just be happy that there are a few of us who agree with you, and ignore those who cry for buffs because of their own shortcomings. We know it's good, because we see it first hand. And so does our enemies. But these guys think that because they can't do something, there must be something wrong with the class.
  10. SKYHEX

    I fell in love with the Inf when I grinded my SMG out. I was originaly planning on spreading my certs across everything in the game, but Inf + wraith flash is too much fun.

    While the cloak is not perfect, it can be used effectively in many situations. Personaly I use my darts, incredible paranoia and platforming skills to infiltrate a base. Cloak is extremely useful as a confusion element. Whenever i am in direct combat and need to reload, I automaticaly cloak and start moving unpredictably and use boxes, bushes and other elements to confuse the hell out of my opponent. What I found recently is that medkits increase my survivability and thorn-in-the-side-ability as well, I can switch to them, cloak off, pop, cloak on and back we go. It's also very useful (and amusing) as a kiting tool due to its distinct sound. Still, I wish jumpjets were just as much noticable, but oh well, we shall see.

    If you want to be a good infiltrator, you first have to be the most paranoid player in the base. Radar or darts are your best tool, especialy since the implementation of minimap zoom. Knowing enemy positions is scary powerful. Hack all the things, keep your darts or radar up at all times, keep on the move and try to piss the defenders off as much as you can. This way, oblivious players are a cert farm and experienced players are fun to deal with.

    Also, current meta (and outfits) seem to vastly underestimate having even a single, solitary infiltrator. Being the guy who pulls a surprise AMS behind the firing line is so satisfying, not to mention can flip entire bases.
  11. Dr. Euthanasia

    Poor choice of words, my friend.
    • Up x 1
  12. Anvildude

    Honestly, I'd be willing to trade the cloak for a buffed up Adrenaline Pump. If we're lighter and less armoured than any other class, doesn't that suggest that we ought to be faster?
    • Up x 1
  13. Rhyl

    I think you misunderstood the point of my post. My argument was flawed as was pointed out (even admitted I had no rebuttal) but I stated in the beginning of it I don't find it underpowered. In other words when I made that post I basically stated I don't find infiltrator any harder than any of the other classes. In fact, to me the infiltrator seems to be the easiest to do well on. Which, again, is why I don't feel underpowered. I've been able to accomplish things with this class I don't think I could with other classes. No I can't stand toe to toe with another class but to me cloak makes it easier to get the jump on people so I don't have to go toe to toe.
  14. Dcrd

    You can try it by your own. I did the same more or less with a HA. People are just blind or having really low fps. And this guy is running around in an open field, of course he expects the cloak to do all the work for him, there is no landscape to use.

    In my case - because it's fun. Other classes are boring as fk.

    I'll say that cloaking is 12 seconds long, so you must either go fast, because you just can't move around crouched, so you will be just as visible as a HA running into the front, or you must flank, just like that HA you've described before.

    And no, cloak is not good. I see other infiltrators, and it's pretty easy to kill them while they're cloaked. I don't know why this "excuse" is bad. You can just see a guy, who can't shoot while stealthed, so he dies instantly. What else do you want? Isn't it enough?

    And btw if I remember right infiltrator is the only character who can't do anything to destroy vehicles, and hacking is useless, since most of hackable terminals are behind the barriers, and even if they are not - people have medics to heal them, and engis to refill ammo. Still I play infil because it's just fun to play. When you actually have some turrets to hack, and you're a pretty unplesant surprise for those guys inside of their base - it's quite fun, but it won't make this class strong.
  15. Get2dachoppa

    This isn't a criticism of the video, simply how things happen when I attempt to such feats.

    20 seconds: I've never found snipers standing right next to each other, uncloaked, and motionless. Also, I've tried the "drop a mine at their feet" trick. On the run, it sometimes bugs out and even though I make the animation that I'm dropping the mine I actually don't. Maybe happens 15-25% of the time, but its fresh on my mind because it just happened again tonight.

    After that you proceed to pistol shoot and stab people all over. Yeah, never works for me. I might get one guy (if I'm lucky) and by then half the squad proceeds to blast me.

    1 minute mark: Turret ejecting. Pretty much impossible now unless you like giving people free certs until the bug is fixed. Before that, I've gotten into bases and wiped out every manned turret. One of the nice rewards for good infiltrating, I think. I've never had that much free time to sit and blast tanks though.

    1:30 mark: Dodging the MAX. Yeah, sometimes I run by people cloaked in broad daylight. Most of the time, they spin and gun me down. Or they give a relentless chase knowing my cloak is going to run out and then I'm an easy target.

    2 minute mark: Prowler massacre: Again, I never get that much free turret time to pick apart armor or even infantry. Might get two kills and then I'm taking rocket fire. My best was hacking a turret and picked off about 4-5 infantry, then my two AP mines (i made a trail to the turret) exploded and got me two more kills. That was my cue to get out of Dodge.

    I dunno, hate to sound cliche and say your server must have a lot more oblivious players but videos like that make it seem that way. I also play with some pretty abyssmal frame rates (usually 20 fps at best) so its hard to tell if its me or my performance. As for the cloaking issue...honestly, most of the video hilights the hacking specialty of Infiltrators. The sneaky, get in and kill and get away stuff I've seen done with just about any class, particulary the Light Assault. And they get the added bonus of being effective against vehicles without needing a nearby turret to hack. Anyway, just my 2 cents worth.
  16. Ztiller

    Of course. You CAN see them. But that does not mean that the cloak is useless. It only seems useless if you considered it to be an Invisibility cloak to begin with. You don't remember the infiltrators you did not see. If the cloak was useless, any class should be able to do what i do in my videos, just as often. But that is not the case.

    Say that to the 50+ Prowlers and Lightnings i have destroyed this weekend alone. I don't hack infantry terminals to deny enemy classes, but to enable it for us. Vehicle terminals are usually both.

    I can't dictate how the enemy is placed. what i can do however is to act upon what i find. Had it been one sniper, i might have just gunned him down regularly. But now i was in a good situation to throw down a mine. Adaptation. As for the drop bug, i cannot remember it happening to me.

    I threw a EMP grenade first to disorient them. They were already distracted by their enemy, so knifing them down when they lacked HUD was no challenge. Also note how i constantly kept moving.

    I still do it. Place a mine behind the turret to kill the guy. Also, mostly they lack any weapon to destroy the turret if you jump in it, so i can usually shoot from it while they can't do anything.

    As for the time, it is a matter of timing. If you jump in a turret in a tower that is swarming while under siege, yes. You'll die quickly. But i usually wait until they have rolled out their Sunderer and thus relocated their force, emptying the tower, before i start using the turrets. Alternatively, if it is a good situation, i'll hack it, kill a tank or two, and then bail from it.

    I used my cloak to disorient him, forcing him to look for a cloaked enemy in a 360 degree angle. He later did spot me, but i was too far away for him to fire effectively at me and i got away safely.

    Taking a little rocket fire is no problem. I usually wait until i have 10-25% hp left, as long as there are targets to shoot at that i know i can kill. I do these things all the time.

    I don't think the skill level is any different between the servers. It is just the way players are, naturally. You and me are no different. Players here like to overexaggerate their abilities. But if i met an infiltrator who moved like i did, and was as aware of the hiding places as i was, then he could wreck me aswell.

    The Light Assault can't blow up 6 prowlers in 45 seconds. Also, if destroying vehicles and killing infantry are all meaningless, then there really isn't that much left to do in the game overall and all classes could be considered useless.
    • Up x 1
  17. Skeith

    i dont get dr. why you still lose time answering to ztiller

    because being a good infiltrator it's one thing,claiming that the cloak it's super effective when almost the entire community besides him claims it wrong is another one

    and no ztiller you cant base the effectiveness of the infiltrator just because you can randomly do something because you find someone who isnt payng attention

    because blowing 6 prowlers with a turret can be quite impressive,yeah,impressive that noone of them was payng attention to a gigantic immobile red dot in the mini map

    returning to the cloak ztiller

    the cloak should be better,we dont care if you like it or not,and no we dont care if you like infiltrators to have such a masochist skill cap

    it would not be overpowered and if you have 2 braincells you should have figured that out alredy

    because a 12 seconds cloak that it's pathetically easy to spot unless you stand still that produces noise everytime goes on and off,and that prevents you to retalliate it's just horrible design

    infiltrators are not used in competitive play ztiller,and noone of your videos or your chattering ******** it's going to change that fact

    oh and since you consider the infiltrator community in these forums a bunch of ******* dont bother posting here and go back to reddit
  18. Kociboss

    All that infiltrators want is noclip ghostmode with shotguns.

    • Up x 1
  19. Loui5D

    Most people who attempt to play inf lack the patience, they assume that they can run around with their cloak active and not have to worry about other players.

    Solution - Play smart, play cautious, play patiently and actually use the camo like it is intended (if you've got woodland camo on go hide in a thicket.)
  20. Dcrd

    I have such expirience, I believe my maximum was something liky 6-8 prowlers, 2 sundies and a dozen of infantry, simply because they wasn't fast with getting me out of this turret. But it happens quite rarely, and you depend on this single turret actually. I mean you go in in a swarming base, get a dude out of his turret, use it, and then you can do some harm. For all this job you only get 50 certs (hacking), and then they destroy their own turrets and then there is nothing more you can do. Just hunt down some infantry. If we could have c4 and a decreased cost of it, infiltrator could be more or less useful against vehicles. I mean, if I can run to prowler and place 2x c4's on him I should be able to do it as an infiltrator aswell, unless I'm being shot at. And in this case you could resupply at those infantry terminals and go for some more kills, which would be as risky as rewarding. If you play well and/or your enemies are blind then you can probably kill multiple tanks resupplying with infantry terminals. But even then, for some mysterious reason, absolute majority of terminals in PS2 is hidden behind the barriers, so you can't use it.

    But you know we can't have all the good things, and now maximum damage I can do is force enemy to destroy all their own turrets, making some kills in the process, but after that - you're a light assault with lower hp and no jetpack, no c4. Heavy with no shield, shredding LMGs, c4s, engineer without ammo packs/mines, etc, so basically a handicapped unit.