[Suggestion] Changeing the Trac-5 to 800RPM

Discussion in 'Light Assault' started by Pfundi, Aug 1, 2015.

  1. Pfundi

    So I just watched I Go Rawrs video on the Jaguar vs the Trac-5.

    And so I had this Idea. Bring it to 800RPM. Increase in TTK, recoil already is bad enough and the sound would get even more angry.

    What do you think?
    • Up x 2
  2. Iridar51

    TRAC 5 actually has pretty good recoil, if you adjust for the steep recoil angle. Horizontal recoil itself is rather small, only 0.025 more than that of T5 AMC and NS-11C, 652 RoF carbines known for their accuracy.

    I agree it's a bid bland to have two 143 @ 750 carbines, and there needs to be more difference between them, but buffing an already very strong TRAC 5 isn't the way.
    • Up x 1
  3. Pfundi

    You are the only one in this sub forum arent ya? :D
    Well it was just my first thought about getting a real difference between the two. And as I feel like the TR is lacking a 800ROF weapon in their carbine (and LMG) arsenal it was the first thing coming to my mind. They could just remodel one of them bullpup or so as well
  4. SW0V

    The TRAC 5 is already incredibly strong. It doesn't need a buff to 800 RPM. The TR already have a fast firing Carbine. It's called the Lynx.

    If anything, I think the unpredictable recoil is the problem. Not the DPS. If they look at the TRAC 5 at all, they should consider making the min/max recoil angles the same. Either decrease max angle to 23, or increase min angle to 25. But having a whole 2 degrees of randomness thrown into the weapons recoil makes it impossible to use effectively at ranges where it would outperform the Jag.
  5. Iridar51

    Lynx is TR's 800 RoF weapon, it just has 909 RoF instead :D

    What TR really lacks is 2013 DPS carbine, like VS and NC have with Serpent / GD-7F. If they would bump up Lynx's RoF to 967, and Jaguar's RoF to 800, that would be more in line. But that would mean balancing changes in form of worse recoil / accuracy.

    And to be honest, I kinda like how TR arsenal is easy to handle. Jaguar is in the good place right now, even if it means being slightly not unique. Lynx could use a DPS increase at the cost of handling, though.
  6. asdfPanda


    Rawr, I want an 800/845 dps weapon in the Carbine arsenal. The absence of the old Lynx shows. Maybe buff the TRAC-SHOT to 800 RPM, in exchange for smth?
  7. Iridar51

    Um, no, it doesn't. 125 @ 909 Lynx does the same DPS as 143 @ 800. Old Lynx was pretty much Jaguar with worse recoil and higher DPS. Whatever Lynx could do, Jaguar can do.

    At least new Lynx is somewhat unique, though, like I said, I would prefer it with higher DPS / worse handling, seeing as its effective range is as limited as GD-7F / Serpent due to CoF bloom.
  8. asdfPanda

    Actually, old Lynx filled a high rpm CQC niche due to it's top-tier moving hipfire and damage per magazine, allowing it to compete with the GD-7f/Serpent. Not saying that the current Lynx is bad, although it does well in CQC; it doesn't dominate.

    Old Lynx = CQC, whereas the Jaguar could reach out further, trading some CQC capability. Think T1 Cycler vs. TAR, with differences, of course. To expand upon this analogy, the TORQ would have replaced the TAR.

    I would like to eventually see a high RPM 143 damage tier weapon return to the TR Carbine arsenal.

    In short, I'm still sad about losing the old Lynx. It would be like losing the TAR from the AR lineup.
    • Up x 1
  9. johnway

    For some reason i do poorly with TR carbines. I don't know i just seem to do poorly with them. I think its something to do with the recoil or something. I might have to switch to a x1 scope and have a foregrip and pray it works.

    I prefer the VS carbines that seem more accurate. Not sure if they're any different though...
  10. Iridar51

    Are we really good repeat the same argument about old Lynx vs new Lynx? Top tier moving hip fire never was in a patchnotes, and likely was an accident.

    Only if TORQ had higher RPM than now, because it does ~same DPS as Cycler.
  11. asdfPanda

    Yes, because I'd like to see a high firerate 143 damage TR Carbine :D

    Even if the good moving hipfire was an accident, it was still a benefit. You don't treat C4 like it works all the time; you let it marinate a little before blowing it up; that's just part of the game; same as how the good moving hipfire was part of the game. Not sure if my analogy makes sense.

    So yeah, it would be like taking away the TAR, and replacing it with the TORQ, in that the TORQ competes with the Cycler now similar to how the Lynx now competes with the Jaguar.

    "In a way, Lynx 2.0 kinda competes with the Jaguar now. Both are easy to handle, versatile close to mid CQC carbines, good both at ADS and hip fire. I guess the main difference is that one allows you to be accurate in ADS while moving, while another allows to be fast. "
  12. Iridar51

    "In a way" that is smaller that the "way" Cycler competes with TORQ. TORQ has roughly the same DPS and effective range as Cycler, while new Lynx has the same DPS as new Lynx.

    TAR also fills a unique niche with being the only TR AR with 75% ADS, but there were 2 carbines with that feature.

    It's not the same at all.
  13. Corezer

    Lynx 2.0 should be the starting TR carbine, actual faction flavor. The gun is amazing between that and the cougar TR pretty much have carbines covered.

    Trac 5 needs the angle variance removed

    Jaguar is the worst of the .75 carbines, all the jitter sucks compared to the zenith or the bandit.
  14. Iridar51

    Placebo effect. Jaguar has the same horizontal recoil as the Zenith. The difference is that Zenith has access to AFG, which is a small difference of 33% against 25% of normal FG.
    Bandit has lower DPS and loses more damage over range.
  15. asdfPanda

    Yeah, and the current Lynx and Jaguar have the same effective range and purpose, CQC mid. TORQ and Cycler have the same purpose, CQC-mid.

    Old Lynx and Jaguar were similar, but had different purposes. Old Lynx had a lethal CQC niche. Even if that niche isn't big enough, it would be nice if TR had something to compete with GD-7F and serpent.
  16. Iridar51

    But TORQ and TAR don't have the same purpose.
    And Lynx and Jaguar don't have the same purpose.

    Lynx is an offensive bullet hose for close quarters, just so it happens it has a bit lower DPS and a bit more control than Seprent and GD-7F.
    Jaguar is a mix of offensive traits, such as above average DPS and high magazine capacity, and defensive traits, such as good hip fire accuracy and 75% ADS.

    Lynx does a bit less DPS than GD-7F / Serpent, but still has about the same effective range as them due to lower damage per bullet and higher bloom, and that is my main beef with it. But it's an issue of ~5% magnitude and may not even exist outside my head. In reality, Lynx is a worthy competitor to GD-7F and Serpent, and unlike them doesn't take an eternity to reload.

    A unique and strong weapon, that I happen to not like just because it ruins the beautiful math in my head. Doesn't make it a bad weapon, and it's certainly more interesting than old Lynx, which had statistical differences from Jaguar.
  17. asdfPanda

    I'm not saying that the Lynx is a bad weapon. I do however, believe that the Lynx changes made it fill a similar role/purpose to the Jaguar, while losing some viability against the GD-7F. The old Lynx competed better against the GD-7F/Serpent.

    The Lynx might be good in close quarters, but the old Lynx performed that role better. The Lynx's control lends itself to compete in the mid range with the Jaguar. Yes, they do have different playstyles, but my previous quote of yours kinda still stands:

    "In a way, Lynx 2.0 kinda competes with the Jaguar now. Both are easy to handle, versatile close to mid CQC carbines, good both at ADS and hip fire. I guess the main difference is that one allows you to be accurate in ADS while moving, while another allows to be fast. "

    But where's the close quarters niche carbine of the TR? TTK matters against opponents of equal skill.

    On a side note, IF the TRAC-5 were to be changed to 800 RPM, what if the TRAC-5S were changed to 750 RPM, to sort of placate those that like the TRAC-5 in its current iteration? You could take it even further, and change the TRAC-SHOT to 845 RPM, though this would be stretching it a bit.
  18. Iridar51

    I disagree with that statement. Old Lynx and GD-7F / Serpent were too different to compare them directly. There's as much difference between them as between Orion and Anchor.

    First, I was wrong to say that in the first place. This was before I got gud with SMGs and realized what accurate hip fire and 75% ADS actually mean.
    Second, just because Lynx has better control, which makes it equally good within certain range, doesn't make it worse in close quarters. It's still better up close than Jaguar due to higher DPS and RoF. Jaguar user can crawl his way out of that disadvantage with superior hip fire accuracy, but that takes skill.
    Old Lynx wasn't that. New Lynx should be that. Unfortunately, it - just a bit - is not. But reintroducing 143 @ 800 carbine won't solve that issue.
  19. asdfPanda

    I look at it more as weapons, although different, serve roles. Weapons may have different traits, but how those different traits bounce off or synergize with one another can produce weapons that serve in similar roles, despite varying wildly in terms of stats.

    So, in that sense, although the Orion and the Anchor have different shooting styles, they serve the same purpose, and compete with one another. Old Lynx was definitely different from the GD-7F/Serpent, but it could definitely compete with them better than the current one due to superior hipfire and mag size. And why won't reintroducing an 800RPM carbine solve the issue of lacking a CQC carbine?

    Finally, I know this topic may have run its course, but what are your thoughts on giving TR an 845RPM carbine?
  20. Iridar51

    They do not server the same purpose, and the only reason they compete with each other is because they are forced to. If VS had access to Anchor and NC had access to Orion, players would use both of them, in different settings.

    Magazine size doesn't help burst down a single target, which is the main reason to even use it. And Lynx still has more damage per magazine than GD-7F / Serpent.
    As far as I'm concerned, superior hip fire was an accident, a bug, that didn't get fixed only because Lynx got a complete rework instead. And I still would rather choose GD-7F / Serpent over old Lynx. Because if I need accurate hip fire and 75% ADS and magazine size I have the Jaguar.
    Because, FOR THE THIRD TIME, 143 @ 800 does the same DPS as 125 @ 909. THERE IS NO FUNCTIONAL DIFFERENCE. Except higher RoF is better for CQC.

    If there were 2 weapons, one with 125 @ 909, another with 143 @ 800, and all other stats are the same, they would perform exactly the same. Except higher RoF weapon would be better in CQC due to higher RoF, and worse at range due to blooming more per point of damage done.

    Better hip fire was a bug. Everything else got traded. 75% ADS got traded for better handling and higher RoF, part of damage per mag got traded for faster reload.

    There is no issue of lacking a CQC carbine. Current Lynx is more than adequate. In some areas it is worse than GD-7F / Serpent, in some areas it is better. Doesn't make it worse overall, just different. Just like the old Lynx.

    Like I said before, I'd rather they just increased Lynx rate of fire to 967, which would put it on the same DPS level as GD-7F/Serpent.