[Suggestion] Change the Resistance Levels of Air

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Scroffel5, Dec 5, 2019.

  1. Scroffel5

    I think we should change the resistance levels of the air vehicles because they are too hard to take down as is. We will take this section by section. We will disregard Flak due to that being obvious that it needs a buff.

    Lets start with the ESF. I think the ESF should be like an Air Flash or Air Harasser. It should take good damage from just regular gunfire. Right now, they can linger around and be perfectly fine, and the best way to counter them is a 2/3 or 3/3 Harasser with a Walker. (I tried it yesterday. It felt really good.) I think that handguns should do at least 2.5x the damage, maybe more, maybe less, depending on what you pilots think.

    Next up is the Valkyrie. I think the Valkyrie should suffer from the same thing, infantry weaponry. However, I think that explosives like the Heavy Assault Rocket Launcher and the Rocklet Rifle should do more damage to it. I also think the Basilisk and Kobalt should do more damage to it.

    Lastly are the Galaxy and Liberator. Let me just say, whoever thought that these things are fine they way they are needs to be fired. Yesterday, me and a guy got into a sunderer with 2 flak cannons, and we were shooting the Liberator with it (may have been a galaxy but I don't remember.) Y'know what he did? He blew his horn, came down to our level, blew us up with the help of an ESF, and rammed us. What. The Actual. Heck. He was just going around ramming people! He rammed ESFs, he rammed Flashes, he rammed Harassers, he rammed Sunderers. WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? Lets boost the damage rockets and rocklets do to should be buffed by 1.5x or 2x. Seriously, these things are flying tanks! Lets also buff the damage tanks do to it and the angle they can aim up. Lets do the same thing with the Basilisk (Kobalt can't damage it).

    These changes may make air less cannon, more glass.
    • Up x 3
  2. YellowJacketXV

    Sure, we can nerf the ESF even further but were going to have to reduce the nanite cost to 200.

    The only thing Valks need is more consistent aiming controls for the nosegun. Something that smooths out the aiming process rather than being jerked around so much for every slight movement the Valk takes.

    Liberators can easily be beat by A2A ESF with lock-on missiles. The only consistent attack that Libs have against ESF is skilled Dalton pilots and the Hyena Tail gun. They are flying tanks and should be flying tanks because they take up 450 nanites and have 3 internal seats. The only problem, in my mind, with these flying things is that they now come with a boost instead of needing to build into it.

    Also your recommendations are literally what air WAS and hardly anyone played it because things were too fragile. Honestly, all you need is one or two AA Heavies and most aircraft can't have fun anymore. Do you even play Air or are you just making things up to make air people miserable?
  3. Scroffel5

    The ESF nanite cost reduction, yes.

    Lockons arent effective when used by infantry unless you are on a fast moving vehicle. Otherwise, they get away while suffering meh damage. If you need multiple AA people to take down one guy, then give us one thing with lockon capabilities by default, whether it be Locklets for the LA or a G2A launcher for the HA or some new thing for another class. If people can't use it effectively alone, they won't buy it.

    As for your Liberator part of the post, its not a strong argument to say you need air to beat air. Yes, you did mention Heavies. Refer to the previous paragraph. The thing is, everything excluding air has something that they can deal with and can be dealt with by default. Don't like armor? Get a rocket launcher or rocklet rifle. Don't like a sniper? Shoot him with your gun or use a sniper that you are given by default. Air isnt like that. You dont get anything to deal with it by default. All you have is the things you spend certs on, but you wont spend certs on it if it isnt effective. Players want kills. If you shoot an ESF, Valk, or Gal with your lockon, and they just fly away, the average player thinks, "What a piece of junk. Never spending more hard earned certs on this stuff every again."

    Just because we have it doesn't mean its useful.
  4. YellowJacketXV

    I have never, in my planetside life, heard anyone say grabbing the Air Lockon missile launcher for heavy was a waste of time.
    It takes three missiles and the premise is being an air deterrent. An ESF pilot won't waste time to get out of trouble if they know there are lockons. You have to back out, repair from the first missile, then come back for damage.

    I fly ESF a lot and I can tell you all it takes is one or two heavies with an AA lockon and my timeframe has gone from leisurely to critical. The same goes for if they have even one burster MAX. Combine the two and I literally cannot touch the place for longer than a half second without getting down to about half HP and needing to repair. That's a TON of time that I have to deal with.

    Air is meant to combat Air completely. The ground level is primarily a deterrent to keep the air at bay. If you are dealing with an inexperienced pilot you will have a bucket of certs for simply grabbing an AA lockon missile.

    How long have you been playing? Are you just upset that someone with a Banshee, Missile Pods, or any other Air to Ground shot at you? There is literally no reason to nerf air any further than it's been so with ESFs. It's already a glass cannon that no one marks targets for ground strikes anyway. You know what it takes to take down a ground-pounding ESF? One single stock ESF with the basic nosegun and fuel tanks. That or two heavies with AA lockon which make sense as the ESF pilot spends 350 friggin nanites to spawn the darn thing.

    Is this topic bait?
  5. Scroffel5

    In the time that a Heavy locks on to an ESF and actually fire the thing, then reloads to shoot a second one, the ESF is long gone. I did the numbers on a post before but I am too lazy to do it again or find the post and copy/paste. You need 2 guys with lockons to take down a flying saucer, and they still have a high chance of getting away!

    Burster MAXes have crap range. Once, a Galaxy lingered from being hit by a Burster MAx, tried to smush him, got a few kills, and left. Not even in a rush! How is that balanced?

    Air is to specifically combat air? That is dumb. Because of the learning curve with an ESF, that proves to be ineffective at most times, and the fact that without air, the enemy air reigns supreme is also stupid. Buffing G2A options fixes that. you should always have a G2A option by default. It makes no sense to spend so many certs on something that scares them off. You need multiple lockons to even destroy one of any air, which means that if you don't get the kill, all you did was scare them off to go harass your other friendlies. Lower the nanite cost if you have to. People who fly Valkyries and Liberators stay alive forever. ESF pilots are more fragile, but too survivable. They can linger in damage. Best defense is a Walker Harasser or Flash with Heavy Lockon.
    • Up x 1
  6. YellowJacketXV

    D E T E R R E N T
    I have said it dozens of times. G2A lockon, flak, and bursters are DETERRENTS. They are NOT SUPPOSED to take down air on their own. If you have enough of them, they can. If air is that much of an issue you'll have it. Why is this such a foreign concept for you to grasp?

    The only problem described is flak rounds having a slower projectile velocity than walkers. And there's a point to that. Things like AA flak explode around the target and deal damage, they have a larger 'hitbox' and are better against heavier armored targets. However, a single burster MAX, although strong, does NOT have the ability to take down armored aircraft (like galaxies) in a few seconds. That would literally nullify the existence of galaxies.

    No. No it's not dumb. The best way to fight vehicles is generally to pull vehicles. The best way to fight air is to pull air. Infantry can do a bit of everything, so everything can do a bit against infantry. If G2A is buffed then there will literally BE NO AIR. But I feel that's what you're after anyway. That means no more Liberators to help break up or soften an armor column. No more scout radar ESF to help with locations. There is no reason that air should be removed from the game by over-buffing G2A just because you got ******** about getting killed by some pilot.
  7. YellowJacketXV

    And one more thing because this BS topic has me so mad I'm seeing red.
    If you think that a ground pounder has ANY staying power in a dogfight you're in for a world of hurt once a simple chaser lifts off. I like my banshee mossy, but I have racer chassis on it for a reason. I do not stick around the moment a basic ***** reaver or scythe pops up into view. I will get popped. My weapon (although it can hurt air) is too inefficient to go after another aircraft and hope to keep myself from pushing the eject button.

    Literally, that is all you have to do. Airhammer reavers can kind of dogfight but once you get out of the shotgun range it's much harder for it to fight back.

    How about you actually try flying for once and then make a topic about how "ESF are too survivable". I'm pretty sure you'll have a good laugh about it later.
  8. LodeTria

    Expecting forumsiders to actually fly a plane is a exercise in futility, even if you offer to pilot the lib for them.
  9. Scroffel5

    YellowJacket, this is controversial. some like it, some don't. Now, don't assume I don't fly. I have flown before, but not a lot. Remember, you are talking to a 10-20 fps player in small battles, but in the air, that gets cut in half. To me, A2G is way easier than A2A. I was lighting up a lightning tank who couldn't hit me. I was being shot from a few directions, but didn't really care until I got intercepted by a Mossy and blown up, again because I haven't learned to yet. It doesn't make sense to have something with such a high learning curve as the only counter to it.

    As you said, its a deterrent. Yes, yes it is. Reduce the nanite cost and make those deterrents closer to a counter. People will still fly air, even if now they get blown out of the sky if they stick around too long. Make them take more damage from just getting shot with handguns. Libs and Galaxies shouldn't be sky tanks. The only thing that makes them worse is that you need a gunner to move and shoot, but you can still switch seats midair to shoot. If aircraft are going to survive virtually every engagement as long as you don't have the same aircraft to counter them, that is counterintuitive. Its the same effect as having or not having death flak, flak that can actually kill. If you don't have it, you are screwed. That isn't the same with vehicle play, as you always have AV to deal with something by default.
  10. AZAN

    What you suggest is to have AA instantly kill air. This is fine in principle but has to come with a massive skill requirement increase. AA sources are completely skill-less and require no brains to operate. That is why it's ok for tanks to one shot ESF's, because it actually takes some skill to hit.

    Most AA currently operate more like pain fields do for infantry. They deter you from going somewhere and place a timer on you but they don't stop you. What you are currently asking for is for pain fields (like the ones at spawns) to instantly kill you.

    I personally think that completely removing the pain field effect for air would be best and replacing it with skill based AA weapons that can do significant damage and kill quickly. But I doubt that will happen, some pilots would just be able to outplay too well against the average players ability to shoot them down.
  11. Scroffel5

    No, I don't want it to instantly kill air. That would be stupid. I want air to not be safe just because they fly away. If they are gonna fly away, they better pull off some insane maneuvers to get behind a mountain, instead of flying in a straight line and shooting. Maybe we can reduce the firerate of AA in exchange for more damage and accuracy. I don't know and I don't care. I already said at the beginning of this post that i was disregarding flak as we already know how that is. The options I was giving were lockons and handguns, which need a buff.

    If a flying vehicle gets shot at, it would sustain damage to the parts that are necessary to keep the thing in flight. You shoot the engine? you are going down. ESFs are lacking in this aspect. There is no small area that you really have to aim for. You just shoot the thing. If you want flak to not instantly destroy the vehicle, make it skill based. If you shoot a specific zone like the turbines or the engine, it will sustain more damage.
  12. AZAN

    If you aren't one shotting then air will always fly away. It just means the pilots will leave earlier and have to fly even more timidly than they already do. I don't think it would ever be fair to have lock-ons do heavy damage, but it would be good if there was a higher velocity heavy launcher which didn't have much gravity drop.

    I think getting a 'golden BB' on aircraft would play out more like a RNG given the difficulty of hitting on such a fast moving target. Would just be frustrating since there's no confidence on either side of how much damage you can inflict or take.
  13. TRspy007

    What really bothers me is the fact that composite ESFs can take my decimator head on - and survive. The decimator should be a 1HK to ESFs, no matter what.

    Now that that's out of the way, A2G counters need to be reworked. Locklets (lol a waste of 500 certs), noob-ons and small arms fire, even bursters should be more lethal to air. An MBT can be wrecked pretty easily, even with one dude attacking it. Why does an ESF, with the whole base shooting at it, still have the possibility of escaping despite causing havoc?

    Cover should also be reworked to take in account for air. There aren't many caves, tunnels, overheads to protect infantry against air bombardments.
    • Up x 1
  14. Scroffel5

    Locklets should work like dumbfiring with right mouse does, but you have to lockon first. Like what is this stupidity?
    • Up x 1
  15. iStalk

    You're just a terrible player lol do us all a favor and uninstall. Every freaking day dumb freaking post from you. You suck, I mean now you think a gal is a problem? Gal are free kills even for a new ESF pilot. Libs aren't a solo kill vehicle. Its possible but not ideal. You're just a terrible player uninstall and **** plz lol. Esf already take small arms damage, learn to freaking fly. Try it out before you start crying like a freaking girl.
    Thank god developers dont even read these post because they see how dumb most of you are lol
  16. Scroffel5

    Notice how I didn't use the unbalanced ESF as a counter to the unbalanced Gal. also, free kill my shoe. Dalton 1 hits ESFs, and you can just shoot the ESF if its giving you so much trouble. Also notice how this is about G2A, moron. Anyways, you are already biased and I don't care about your opinion. You think that ESFs are the weakest vehicle ingame and that they are underpowered, but that is all because YOU FLY THEM IN A2A! Please stop commenting on my posts if you are only giving your A2A side of the story, because I don't care about A2A. Just keep damage numbers proportionate to what they are now, and A2A will be perfectly fine, but I have said this before, and you still don't listen. And as for your stupid "Esf already take small arms damage, learn to freaking fly" comment, a Harasser takes small arms damage; doesn't mean it is very effective. A Valkyrie takes small arms damage; doesn't mean its effective. A Flash takes small arms damage; if you run jockey and dont run into a freaking group, you are much more likely to die to a tank.
  17. iStalk

    Im the moron? Lol dude, I can get a list of things you've posted and prove who's the moron in reality. Honestly, do you even understand that the developers dont even care much about this section because of players like you? You have some problem with air. And it's getting annoying because all your ideas are just about nerfing air. You're a terrible player, I can tell by all your post. You even called a gal unbalanced lol. The hell? You're cancer in the forums. A annoying little kid with stupid ideas. Nerf this nerf that. **** already
  18. LordKrelas

    When Pilots have a better solution than "Air giving you trouble, Be the air"
    Perhaps they won't usually look like blowhards.

    We don't tell Pilots or Tankers, to "Spawn as an Medic" to Kill medics.
    Nor Pilots to spawn MBTs to kill MBTs; They spawn Liberators or ESFs.
    No one says "To kill infantry, you spawn as Infantry" to pilots; As they pull any of their aircraft.

    Pilot has a vehicle problem: pilot spawns air.
    Pilot has an air problem: pilot spawns air.
    Pilot has an infantry problem: pilot spawns air.
    Pilot is told there is an Air-problem: Says "Spawn Air"

    If Air is weak, it shouldn't be capable of facing any threat past "Secure the capture point"
    If Air is the counter to itself, and is the only decent thing able to 'fight' not annoy air, It is broken.
    A MAX, is not annoyed by all weapons and only reliably killed by another MAX.
    An MBT, worth 450 Nanites, is also not only reliably killed by another MBT - Let alone only by Tank-to-Tank Specific warfare.
    An Infantryman, regardless of Class type, does not only get killed by their same class.
    An ESF or Liberator, the Pilot solution; Is to field the very same aircraft, unlike every other thing in this game.

    If we had that on the Ground, Air would be screaming murder, as they couldn't kill Tanks, while wielding Anti-Armor weapons, past a 2:1 ratio of equally expensive assets, or an even more severe ratio.
    Let alone in both situations, Said enemy Armor could hard-counter the Anti-Armor weapon with a button-Press, or teleport away, while under a 2:1 situation against Anti-Armor weapons.

    A pilot can.
    As Deterrents only exist in G2A weaponry.
    Air weapons are 'weak' only compared to their original stats, where they could 1-shot MBTs as an ESF (Original Hornets)
    Where an entire platoon would die to the Rocket-pods inside a single volley.
    Where a Liberator could from sky-limit, basically end platoons.

    Land-Weapons, do not have a single respective weapon that matches those.
    Even the original Gate-Keeper & Saron, couldn't touch the firepower of Air.
    The present firepower of Air, has the highest damage-dealing weapons, with numerous AOE capabilities.
    A single Lighting tank , is a 1 man vehicle at the same price as the ESF, Which the ESF has built-in boost, built-in-radar, built-auto-repair, 2-weapon slots, and all the agility of an aircraft with the highest top-speed.

    If that is the weakest vehicle.
    The Lightning tank, at its best, is classified as infantry.
    And the Max is classified as Suicide, at 450 nanites, with numerous hard-counter weapons, including the ESFs able to gun them down while the Max has G2A weapons, inside a single volley of Secondary-Weapon Rocket-Pods on the ESF.
    Akin to a 25-nanite flash, 2-shotting an MBT - except worse, as the MBT would've been the most expensive anti-flash , for it to be accurate.

    Why are select Pilots getting worse.
    Tanks & Maxes have more to complain about, than "I can't one-man army an entire platoon, in my ESF, they want to nerf my weapons!"
    • Up x 2
  19. TRspy007

    Or even just work like the striker, just point, shoot and if it comes 20 meters near the aircraft automatically lock on. It's unbelievable how locklets have not changed since they got released, despite their how pathetic they are. They sounded like AA for the light assault, except the rocklet actually works better at AA in it's DEFAULT.

    LIke, WTF??? What is the point of the locklets then???
    • Up x 1
  20. Scroffel5

    Good idea!
    • Up x 1

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