Change ESF missiles vs. liberators

Discussion in 'Test Server: Discussion' started by GaBeRock, Mar 11, 2014.

  1. Dead soldier

    Nanite auto repair doesn't happen that fast and to engage a very skilled lib, you have to be a very skilled ESF pilot. It's actually a battle of skill which is weird and nice because there aren't that many in Planetside.
  2. Gundem

    99.99% sure that's a big *** bug there.
  3. WyrdHarper

    100% sure it's in the patch notes. It's the antepenultimate notation in the balance section.
  4. GaBeRock

    It isn't really a problem now, but once libs get their new tail weapons ESFs will have to spend even more time doing evasive maneuvers. Plus, the racer frame buff levels out the playing field even more (in favour of libs) as ESFs loose some of their speed advantage, and are forced to move in straight lines more often to catch up with the lib (which is devastating with the new tail guns.) The mantain-lock distance increase doesn't even matter, as ESFs already have to be pretty close to even aquire lock, and the longer time between missile shots (compounded with the necessity of evasive maneuvers) gives liberators more freedom in deploying flares, nullifying a large part of an ESF's range advantage.
  5. DatatheGenius

    This thread is pure garbage. The people that think they know things here don't.

    1. From what I am understanding, the two main ESF pilots complaining here sound like they are getting daltoned 20 times a day against libs.. If that is the case, stop flying, as you don't know how to. Not everyone can dalton ESFs with ease, so you don't nerf the 5%.

    2. Libs are easy to solo, sit at a distance and shoot, when the lib charges you, strafe in a different direction and do what was previously mentioned.

    3. No good lib pilot that I know runs flares, it is stupid in a lib, since it can take the hits. There are much better options than flares, just bringing that up shows how much the NOOBS complaining here know. They are pulling every little excuse they can find and saying "HERE! HERE! THIS IS STUPID! NERF! LIBS ARE OP!"


    • Up x 1
  6. GaBeRock

    When have I complained about the dalton? My argument is that with the buffs to tailgun/speed will make the liberator better against air, when it doesn't need to be, so if the liberator gets buffed, it should be nerfed an equal amount to keep it balanced. Strafing at a distance will no longer be feasible with the buffs to liberator tailgun. Remember, Liberators cause considerable anger for infantry already. If it becomes harder for friendly air support to eliminate liberators then libertors will be nerfed against ground even more, so even if you can defend yourselves better total income/impact on battles will just get worse.

    Furthermore, saying that the liberator shouldn't be nerfed in relation to what's on the test server right now is tantamount to saying that the liberator needs to be buffed against aircraft. If you think the liberator is UP right no, then you are the one who needs to re-evaluate your statement.
  7. iller

    By which you mean if 3 ESF's all working together, Lockon and fire in short succession not once, but twice in a row aganst that Lib, it WILL finally die somewhere around the 5th missile ... then yes they're "Fine" and it should always take 33% more force and 100% more resources to counter a 2-man crew Bomber vehicle that can also kill every single Infantry unit with only 2 indirect ----- hang on let me verify that one----- yes INDIRECT hits from a DALTON that is inexplicably supposed to be anti-armor only but still seems to take 75% of my health off by landing 6ft away from me while I'm wearing Flak Armor 4 ....Which is pretty sad actually considering what a massive Projectile collision mesh that thing has and if they can't hit me directly then there's something wrong with their eyes I think b/c I bullseye fools at longer distances with just the Galaxy's Bulldogs and everyone says those need a BUFF lulz & I've completely lost track of where I'm going with this one.

    I guess what I'm asking is if you actually used a calculator before making this post to fully consider how "Versatile" a Lib really is now
  8. Ronin Oni

    You know Dalton is getting splash radius nerfed right?
  9. Googles

    In open, uncontested skies with a 1v1 against an entire Lib crew it's hard but completely doable to solo a Lib as an ESF with the default nose gun and external fuel tanks. I've done it against BR100's multiple times.

    The trick is trying to stay as close to the lift vector of the Lib as you can. Of course you need good aim and you need to watch out for Dalton shots if you get close and get out of their LOS.

    It's only when the Lib gets support then it becomes a death sentence. Currently, ESFs vs Libs 1v1 are fine and this is from a perspective of a pure ESF pilot. It's even easier if you were to use A2AM.

    It'll take a while, but eventually it will go down. It's supposed to be hard. You're an ESF going against a 3-man crew. Imagine how stupid it would be if you were able to OHK.
  10. GaBeRock

    Splash radius doesn't affect damage against ESFs, so pilots stay angry about it. There is going to be a damage nerf, but soe mentioned resistances are changing to keep the same shots to kill against vehicles. ESF pilots don't care if liberators can keep doing their job with the dalton, in fact, it's in our best interest to have as many aerial targets as possible. The anger is about how something that's supposedly a dedicated anti-ground gunship has such a terrifying anti air capability. Nerfs to liberator dalton damage against other liberators won't even stop that since they get nastier tailguns and the freelook nosegun.

    I actually wouldn't be angry in there was a "heavy fighter" variant of the liberator that gave up ground attack capability.
    My complaint isn't with how libs are now, regarding A2A, but how good they'll become with heastseeking tailgun and freelook nosegun. Tho only place where it will be safe to attack a liberator is above it, and they have the same sky ceiling as ESFs. That's why I'm calling for a missile buff: so an ESF can still make sure to out dps (in comparison to the liberator's health) the liberator, as long as the ESF doesn't get in range of the bottom gun.
  11. Ronin Oni

    It's not that terrifying TBH.

    I fly mostly ESF and I've learned how to avoid giving the belly gunner a good shot on me. Haven't died to Dalton in a long time.

    If you're careless, then yeah, it will OHK you. So it upsets a lot of more inexperienced pilots a lot. Pilots who have been around know how to fight Libs.

    New coyote tailgun won't even make them terrifying. Why? Because past 150m it's a lot harder to use. And guess how I engage Libs?

    That's right... 200m+. I can dodge coyotes at that range almost as easy as I can dodge their dalton shots.

    The increased FoV for tailgun will actually be the biggest change, reducing attack vectors for top down attacks.

    Reducing Dalton efficiency against infantry is a big change too. Infantry are the most common (though least important generally) target. Dalton's will now be even more ineffective against them encouraging use of Zephyr/new variant to deal with foot zergs and infantry AA.
    • Up x 1
  12. Emotitron

    Don't try to dogfight against libs unless you know you are good enough to stay clear of their nose and belly. There is no reason people should expect to be able to take down a lib solo. It costs more resources and seats more people. Bring a friend, or bug out.
  13. sucoon

    wow, you lucky guy, then you never got a aimboter with a dolton, who can ohk at render distance
  14. GaBeRock

    Again, I don't really have a problem with the dalton. What I'm trying to point out is that all the changes to Dalton only make it more dangerous to air, when it was already considered, at best, balanced, and at worst, grossly OP. It didn't need its anti-air buff, and its anti- infantry nerf was misplaced: Liberators should be just as good at killing ground units as before, but worse against air, so allied air power can mitigate the threat posed by a liberator to infantry's satisfaction. I'd be perfectly willing to run a anti-liberator loadout to help harrased infantry if I had a higher chance of success, but as it stands it makes more sense for me to just equip AB/banshee and try my luck farming infantry. If ESFs were more often distracted fighting liberators, less people would complain about them.

    Liberators cost a whopping... 100 more resources. Furthermore, ESFs are Empire Specific Fighters. They are the direct, hard counter to enemy air. Any fighter with a semi-experienced pilot and without ground attack weaponry should have a fighting chance to kill the lib, and a much larger chance to drive off even more experienced liberator pilots. Liberators should have their ability to kill ground buffed, but their ability to kill air brought down to at least where it was last patch through some sort of aerial weapon resistance nerf. Had Liberators been billed as heavy fighters, and required the weapon specialization to match, I wouldn't be complaining, but they were billed as gunships/bombers, which mean they need to be nerfed compared to where the last patch put them.
  15. Emotitron

    They are 100 more resources and have 3 gunners rather than 1. No. I love my ESF but I feel no entitlement to taking down full crew Liberators solo. That is the equivalent of a lightning driver getting upset by not being able to take out 2/2 MBTs.

    What is the point of giving the Liberator AA weapons if they can't even defend themselves against one ESF? 2 ESFs with reasonably smart pilots can still pick a liberator down, and that seems correctly balanced.

    Maybe as the crews get more skilled they will become more menacing, but so far I have not found them to be absurd - just much more dangerous. If they evolve to become OP in the air I will certainly be the first to admit it - just not seeing it yet.
  16. Ronin Oni

    Aimbot can't account for enemy player movement after the shot.

    You can dodge an aimbots shots as easily as a pros shots.

    They'll still miss.
  17. Ronin Oni

    Do you have A2Am's?

    About 4 missiles + nosegun in-between at 300m can kill a lib

    Maxing A2Am capacity gives you 10 missiles so you can kill 2 Libs with flares between reloads.

    That's if you don't have any help, and you are 1v2ing here keep in mind.

    Get 2 A2Am ESF's and Libs will be a stick of butter to your hot knife.

    Even without any A2A munitions, 3 Rotary/Default nosegun AB fuel ESF's can take out libs with little difficulty as well.
  18. GaBeRock

    Liberator weapons, when properly used, should be able to fend off an enemy fighter, no more, no less. The lighting comparison is innacurate because lightings and MBTs share the same role: farm infantry take out enemy tanks so your infantry can't get farmed. It would be more equivalent to a lighting being angry that it can't take out a 3/12 Sunderer because sunderers have an exceptionally potent anti-tank weapon. I don't feel that any fighter should be able to take down a liberator, but I do feel that any somewhat certed fighter should be able to cause a liberator to turn tail and head to friendly airspace. This would also be good for the airgame as a whole; if infantry know that it's cheaper (certs wise) to get an ESF to fend off a liberator that lockons or flack, they'll stop complaining about air as much, as they's be using air themselves. Liberators would still keep their use, killing ground, they just won't be as able to farm without friendly air support.
  19. GaBeRock

    I own A2AMs/Rotary, but I've stopped using them recently in favour or Banshee/AB because, playing mattherson TR, I'm basically always going to be outpopped in an air fight, and I don't have enough experience with dogfighting to make a difference there. Plus, I'm trying to get my abysmal K/D up so I'm more attractive to outfits, and afterburners give me more survivability.
  20. Ronin Oni

    Well banshee AB fuel IS a very fun build.

    One of my favorites. I used to run PPA AB fuel on my scythe a ton too, though I'm back to mostly Rotary + lolpods

    I actually only have A2Am on my Mossie which I don't play much anymore, but when I feel like hunting libs, I'll go load my TR (waterson) :p

    and yeah, if you have no air presence, trying to play A2A can be nearly futile unless you're really really good.

    I've won several 2 or 3 v 1's in my A2A Mossie... or even my Scythe with Rotary + Fuel... but friendlies in the skies make a huge HUGE difference.

    I plan on certing into A2Am on my Scythe actually... though I'm waiting to see if Hornets get a buff because I'd rather use skill weapons against Libs and Gals, plus it'd leave me with AV capability.