[Suggestion] Change ESF engagement radar

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Demigan, Oct 25, 2019.

  1. Demigan

    ESF engagement radar was added specifically to giv newbies a leg up in the airgame and show them how experienced pilots fly.
    Experienced pilots use stealth, entirely negating the function of engagement radar.
    Experienced pilots also use engagement radar to find and gank newbies, making it harder to learn the airgame instead of easier.

    The solution is simple: make engagement radar a defense slot item that all ESF start with. If you equip stealth you automatically lose the engagement radar.
    To further help newbies with engagement radar, if you receive damage from a source (ground or air) that source is automatically spotted, and aircraft that damage you will also be visible on the engagement radar as if they didnt have stealth whenever they are spotted.
    • Up x 4
  2. Trigga

    ESF Engagement Radar
    Function - Causes the HUD to highlight and track hostile aircraft
    Slot - Passive
    Range - 600m

    Stealth reductions (ESF, Lib, Galaxy):
    Using stealth reduces detection from enemy Engagement Radars by:
    Rank 1 - 100m
    Rank 2 - 200m
    Rank 3 - 300m
    Rank 4 - 400m

    Stealth reductions (Valkyrie):
    Rank 1 - 150m
    Rank 2 - 250m
    Rank 3 - 350m
    Rank 4 - 450m

    Just some relevant info.
    • Up x 1
  3. Skraggz

    I'm 100% down for taking engagement out of baseline and putting it in the same tier as stealth, and I fly a decent amount.
  4. Demigan

  5. Exileant

    :confused: I am against this. If you are not new, you do not have to worry about it. o_O Besides, some advantage is better than no advantage. It needs to stay up, because fighters are not all it detects. The absolute worst thing I can remember when I first started off was spinning around to what I thought was a fighter that flew by, only to find out it was the fin of a flipping Liberator.... that is now headed right at me... :eek: Or a Galaxy sneaking up on my fighter and plowing through me. Fun to do, less fun to have it done to you.... :confused: They need that radar. :( The victim is the one who needs and uses it constantly, as the experienced pilot often circle orbits them, and the newer pilots need some indication of where to go or they will not have a prayer... o_O As you said Ace's do not really need it at all, as they sneak up on their target, and once that happens their victim does not last long enough for them to use it.... Most of them still do not. ;) But they get a grasp of where to look eventually and with that, where to run.
  6. LordKrelas

    The Vet is running stealth, the Newbie Isn't: So the Vet is not on radar, while the Newbie is.
    IE, the Advantage is for the Vet, not the Newbie, as the Vet gets Free Radar, and can negate it.
    That is Demigan just said; And gave the Newbie a better hope in hell, with his suggestion.

    The Newbie has no hope in hell in getting any advantage from Vets with said Newbie having Radar, when Both have it.
    Since the Newbie, unlike the Vet does not have Stealth, Which means the Newbie is on Radar, while the Vet isn't.

    Stealth Means, the Radar Basically does not work.
    Stealth, is on the Vet ESF not the Newbie ESF: Stealth Negates Radar.

    On PS4, is the Radar Unaffected by Stealth or something?
    As on PC, that was the Hard-Counter to Radar - Hence why he mentions every Ace Runs Stealth
    What dark oblivion, is the PS4 Flying Game, that Being invisible to Radar + Radar, Helps new players, when Only New players show up on Radar.
  7. Exileant

    o_O Most vets I know do not run stealth. They do not need it. I myself, feel I have grown out of it;so while I do not quite feel the same way as my friends, yet, I do not use it either. To quote them: ;) Ay-hem.....: "Stealth is a waste of space and a newbie-tool." :confused: Honestly, I am not sure why he posted they do; almost every talented pilot I encounter I can see plane as day on my radar. o_O They want you to find them. Regardless, if you read a little further you would have also saw the additional things a newbie can track, aside from other players their rank and Cert level....
  8. LordKrelas

    What in hell are they running then? Fire-Suppression?
    A waste of space, to not be on be on the radar of any Tank, ESF or similar, ensuring any new pilot can't even use their radar;
    I'd love those PS4 Pilots to get on PC: as on PC, Stealth is what you use.

    Any newbie would have the Radar, with his Suggestion - while vets would have to swap it out, to use radar.
    Your PS4 Newbies would only benefit, and your Vets wouldn't be affected; So you should love it.

    That Newbie is on their Radar 24\7 - otherwise, making the Newbie who will not have Stealth, an easier kill; As it isn't default.
    Demigan's suggestion, helps them from being on that Radar; Not the Vets.
    This means Vets do not gain severe advantages over any new Pilots, just on Basic Built-in-Features.
    Apparently PS4 is a lot less Predatory in hunting.
  9. Skraggz

    On Emerald they 100% run stealth, and to run anything else in that slot is silly, Unless your running composite to hunt Libs.
    • Up x 1
  10. Exileant

    :confused: It is not my place to say, as I was sworn to secrecy as far as layouts of others go.

    o_O And somehow I reeeeeeally doubt that is the case.... Please think about what it is that I am saying... They do not use stealth because they WANT to be found. :confused: They do not approach from a blind spot. In fact most of them will warn you that they are behind you, and will actually give you a few a few seconds to turn around and face them. o_O You know you are good when you just hang out in front of the enemy's Warp Gate by yourself. :eek: The good ones here, will fight 3 good pilots at once.... while lit by Lumifiber and win. The absolute worst are N.C.s Reavers because of their high performance... You have a few who do use Stealth. :confused: They get beat down too, even after sneaking up on people. For us, stealth is about as old as trying to use Air-To-Air Hard Lock missiles. For gags only because you will not win with them, unless you truly have some skill, or you have help. ;) You actually even have some lunatics who will use the P.P.C. in a dogfight...
    • Up x 1
  11. Exileant

    :D It honestly does not shock me. :confused: I see many things not only differ from P.C. to P.S.4, but even drastically between servers. Harassers give you all trouble to no end, where as not too long ago, we were complaining that they were too weak. :D The only issue we had with them, was T.R.'s Gate Keeper, and Vulcan, as well as N.C.'s Bottle Rocket Launcher, not because they were so overpowering, but mainly because Vanu was so badly underpowered with our weapons set. Our Harasser P.P.C. did NO damage to vehicle armor outside of another Harasser and could not even do that right. Hahahaha! Remember those dark days? ;) Thank the Lord they fixed that....
  12. LordKrelas

    So the PS4 Pilot Community, is either Piss-poor, or the Piloting Controls are actually decent, but no one can aim anyway.
    With this "Face me Honour-bro" logic, for their Skyknights.

    Also; The Lock-ons, don't require skill to use, that is the primary complaint against them.
    Unless for some reason, the easiest to use weapon, let alone without stealth doubling lock-times, is the hardest to use on PS4.

    Why someone is using an AI weapon against other Pilots, and expecting anything but hell...
    Like are TR using Banshees in AA duty there , or is VS just special in logic?
  13. Exileant

    ;) With the pilots I am talking about, even without them using Stealth, you would only get off 1 volley if you were lucky, and that volley would have cost you half if not more of your life. :confused: Our control layout is almost the same as flying a Drone..... :D Decent does not begin to cover it. Trust and believe, you would be at a major disadvantage. As always you missed the point... They do not give you that time because they want you to do the same... They do not care if you blind side them. In their eyes you better, it is your only hope at getting some damage done. They do it as a taunt. "You can either turn around and die like a soldier, or you can die like a snitch; tired, from being run down into a ditch...". o_O (We are monsters when it comes to vehicles. P.C.'s point and click characteristics are more of an infantry type of thing, not so much for the aiming either, it is more for the ease of dodging. Most mouse users here wait until they have dodged you dry of your clip before they attack.)
    :eek: The Hard Locks do require skill the more skilled the player you face, as they require you to do the one thing you cannot in order to survive..... NOT dodge. o_O You either have to have a cheat engaged, or you have to be able to get your opposition so off balanced it will take them a bit to find you so you can actually lock onto them in peace.
    :confused: The only weapon that is still viable as a combat platform (and not carried just for style) over here is the Coyote launcher, but if I am honest, most of the new players are the ones who carry them. Just as I like the challenge of bringing down heavy armor in a flash, they enjoy breaking players who use Coyotes. They have even taken up fighting infantry with nose cannons dropping targets at full strafe speeds. And that is how I managed to burn my targets with the pillager as after the deed is done, they tend to gloat with a victory hovering barrel-roll, or inversion. (Sky-riders way of a "T-bag taunt") ;) This is how I have managed to burn my aerial targets with my Pillager. With great skill often comes arrogance... :p Sweet... :eek: EXPLOITABLE.... :D Arrogance....
  14. Exileant

    The short answer is: ;) We do it because we can. :D That is the Nature of V.S. over here. Our weapons were/kinda still are HORRIBLE to us, so why not learn to use the P.P.C. in all situation?? If you learn to bring down a target with the worst weapon in the game, or even survive the encounter, how skilled do you have to be? o_O You basically fought that match with both arms tied behind your back. Same logic applies to me and the Flash; which is why I do not hesitate to try to kill a 2/2 tank. :p Hahahaha!
  15. adamts01

    Sorry Demigan. I have to vote no on this one. I just don't see it accomplishing any good. Let's say Engagement radar was on the defensive slot. New players would be better off running Fore Suppression. Let's say it was on the performance slot. The best thing new players could do would be save up for stealth, and 2nd best would be composite, especially with the Dalton change. And as Exileant said, vets don't need engagement radar or stealth. Let's say engagement radar canceled Stealth, then the new player would still lose terribly, he'd just know he's screwed a little sooner. There's no quick fix to the monumental performance gap in the air.

    I somewhat agree. I mostly use NAR to keep fight after fight rolling. I haven't had time to play for a month or so, but after the Dalton change I'll probably be running composite, which was a strong choice even before the Lib buff. But... While the top few pilots don't run stealth, 99% of the good ones do run Stealth. And while I'm one of the few who gives new pilots a few warning shots, the vast majority of good pilots don't, and they don't hesitate to gank noobs. I can't speak for the current meta with the Dalton buff, but there isn't much chivalry in the air, on any server. Half those guys hanging outside warpgates are sitting behind a hill running Stealth. Props to the guys who try to make the air game a little better for everyone, but most aren't in that camp.
  16. Demigan

    This isnt meant as a way to instantly solve the newb vs veteran problem, but as a way to make it less of a clubbing for the newbies.
    A newbie right now is visible to the veteran while the veteran with stealth isnt visible back, making it much easier to find and track newbies than if engagement radar was either gone or took the same slot as stealth. Wanting to keep it as-is because it doesnt solve the entire imbalance is not a good argument.

    There is also a night and day difference between having stealth or not, as I experienced hunting pumpkins this halloween. Before I equipped stealth on my other characters my life expectancy was very short, people go out of their way to track and kill you if you show up. Certing into stealth turned a portion of those players hunting me down before into friendly "I dont kill you, you dont kill me" players. Additionally fighting back against those who hunt pumpkin hunters became easier, as they had just as much trouble keeping track of me as I of them with stealth.
    Another thing is that you can also see that even during an event that has many newbies taking to the skies for pumpkin hunting, more than 8 in 10 will be using stealth and not show up until after 600m have passed. (No I dont mean they show up at 600m distance, but at significantly less)

    There is only one reason to keep the status-quo: because it keeps the veterans in even more power. Not a reason we should give in to.
    Again, putting engagement radar in a slot would force both newbies and veterans to choose, it would also make it harder for veterans to abuse the system in order to find easier targets. Since engagement radar would still be auto-granted and be automatically equipped in a slot there is also no conflict with "you are better off saving certs for stealth" and it would have a higher chance of actually doing its intended job: giving newbies a better idea of whag is happening during and air-battle.
  17. Exileant

    :confused: I will neither confirm nor deny the tactics displayed here, however, your words at the end do ring with absolute truth. o_O Save for time consumed learning the trade, there is no shortcut other than having a teacher pretty much be in the same room as you are. There should be no easy way either. :eek: You either bleed to be one of the best or, stay out of their air.

    ;) Here we will have to yield to each others server experience as far as what goes on. o_O I rarely see gang-ups on new players unless the skies are flooded. But then nobody can really tell how many people are shooting at a target so, FREE FOR ALL. Most of the time you will start out with 3 on one, where nobody but the underdog is shooting. Once he chooses his target, the other two break off and lay into the base targets, and will not return unless the their friend is in trouble. Even then they usually just chase him off and return to the ground feast. As that is far better usage of their time whilst they poke at their teammate for needing to be saved. Also multiple planes jockeying for position on a single target causes wrecks... :confused: Want to get on a Pilot's bad side? Run into them while they are first in line for that tail they were chasing.... Time is money, our money are Certs, and Certs are milked by the smart. :D Now this will go out of the window every so often when the victim goes insane and starts trying to ram or engages multiple targets. Most of the time the victim does not get that chance however. :eek: The ones by our Warp Gates stare unnervingly in plane sight, will even allow you to get a get hits in on exiting. The one thing that is uniform? None of them use stealth. I can plainly see them on my radar. They only use the mountains here if you try to take advantage and get them below 75% health before you come out via A.A. or Coyotes.
  18. InexoraVC

    Doesn't matter what slot place the engagement radar to. Experienced pilots don't need engagement radar - they just look and listen. If the target is seen in window or any ESF engine sound heared - hunting begins.
    Engagement radar won't help unexperienced pilots to withstand vets with/or without stealth. The main probem of newbie - he can't point and keep(!) nose gun towards the enemy plane. I know it because I'm newbie pilot despite few years PS2 ground combats experience.
  19. Demigan

    The way newbies aim isnt the discussion here. Engagement radar allows players to locate and track newbies from 600., farther than they can hear. The point is also that it should help newbies. If 100% of the veterans equip something other than engagement radar the goal is reached: they cant automatically tell which players are newbies and prioritize them and the newbies have the chance to actually see a bit more what the enemy ESF is doing.
    Pre-engagement radar almost no-one used stealth, so if engagement radar isnt picked by most players then stealth wont be as standard as it is now and we'll see more variety.
  20. Skraggz

    I don't think you grasp how you just pointed out that engagement radar just furthers the gap between vet and newb.

    If Said vet looks and listens to find opponents then engagement radar has lesser of an effect on him if the newb runs it.

    If said Newb isn't looking and listening but relying on the Radar to pop directions and distance then engagement radar GREATLY hinders is ability to fly.

    My thing with engagement radar is I see it as the best choice for the slot, it is well rounded and useful if I am A2A or A2G. I would advocate buffing the other slots to make them more appealing BUT that would resolve the disparity between the newb and the vet as you pointed out.

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