[Suggestion] Cap on lancer and vortex range

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by descolada512, Aug 27, 2014.

  1. gloowa

    It's just the hypocrisy pisses me off. The Vortex is performing in AV area same as other faction's AV weapons, but It's 5 times weaker in AI. What do you read in this thread? "Vortex range OP, nerf plz". We already got a tank that can be out-dps-ed by 1/2 anchored prowler, even when using 2/2 AV setup. Please let us have SOME way to kill your vehicles?

    ROFL again. So basically, other launcher have all statistics better than Lancer, except average amount of vehicles being killed by Lancer user before he dies, and that somehow proves that it's better? Have you considered to look at other stats as well and see the whole picture? You would see that while yes, Lancer users lives longer, he also gets less kills/unit of time. What that means? Lancer is being used from range, which grants better survivability, but get less kills overall as seen in columns Avg KPU and Avg KPH. This is all that it means - if you use lancer, you die less. It doesn't mean you kill more vehicles than other RLs in same period of time. That's why you just cutting that single column out of context is just bad thinking.
  2. Bananenweizen

    You are saying, Lancer/Vortex should have the possibility to engage vehicles far behind the rendering range because Pounders, Falcons and Ravens are too good against infantry? Honestly, Flag, how is it an argument?

    Dude, if you would bother to look up the vKPH you would easily see that Lancer not only kills more vehicles per user, it also gets more vehicle kills per hour than Phoenix, Striker or any other rocket launcher in the game right now.

    So yes, you can stop trying to disprove the theorem that Lancer is great at AI because nobody here is arguing for this. You can, however, also stop trying to tell us how bad Lancer is at AV 'cause it is obviously not the case.
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  3. day ofm one

    Or SOE just equals infantry and vehicle render distance to the current vehicle render distance.
  4. Flag

    Or you could read it the other way around.
    As long as the other ones trump it as they do outside of the AV role, I don't see a reason to nerf the Vortex.
  5. Keiichi58

    Actually, if you are being picked off while almost dead by a Lancer of Vortex... It isn't the issue of range.

    The Typical Lancer/Vortex user still has to charge up a hard hit, which means to hold down the trigger and line up their shot. At longer ranges, the target must be the size of a MBT or Sunderer. If MBT or Sunderer are already well damage, them finishing you off is hardly just because the Lancer or Vortex range is the issue.

    The AV Turret was capped because you had the firepower of a standard Dumbfire or close to a phoenix that could be guided to almost near accuracy (Yes, it suffers the same problem as the Lancer and Vortex at hitting targets at longer ranges due to the target hit box being smaller), but the rewards were often more rewarding than the Lancer and Vortex. Also, the Lancer user is a 2 full charge shot to do the maximum possible damage before reloading. The Vortex is 4 full charge shots per gun with NO Aimsighting.

    Mind you, I hate the Lancer and Vortex at times, especially at range, but in an open range field, that is where most Infantry based AV weapons will have an advantage, more so for the VS because they have that range advantage. The drawback for them is the fact their Lancer and Vortex weapons require engaging a 'closing' vehicles at range. Meaning, they have to be closing in range and continue to do so.

    The Lancer and Vortex are weak when trying to engage faster moving vehicles, which is where not firing a charging bolt is better, but you sacrifice your ability to hit harder. If you are not MOVING towards the incoming Lancer/Vortex fire and moving at a decent clip perpendicular to the lancer/vortex fire... The range advantage is overcome where the lancer user has to guess lead for his shot to hit, or resort to using 'snap shots' to do lighter damage instead of the full charge shot to do his damage.

    I play all the factions... Capping the Lancer/Vortex range isn't going to be helpful for your situation because you are trying to make the VS be crippled for the one section that is a slight advantage for the VS, but is also their greatest weakness with that weapon. At the short range engagement, using the decimator, the S7, or the Empire Specific AV/AA weapon is better than the lancer... But at close range, the lancer is weak because of the short snapshot == pecking damage versus a full charge shot. At a longer range, the snapshot is 'better' at discouraging enemy vehicles or weakening the armor, but any AV weapon used in mass will only be effective against a 'single' target and this presumes everyone is coordinated enough to do it.
  6. Regpuppy

    Lancer shots do NOT render from that far away, especially if there are more than 40 people near you.
  7. IrishPride

    Yeah man totally understand, i mean Lancer and Vortex not a problem with range or damage etc., my real arguement overall is not being able see anything out of render range regardless of optics its a complete mess. I have no real issue with it other than exploiting the range from what i cannot see or spot ( you cant do jack poop for nothing about it), something that does not register at a distance is complete nonsense and you are not going to hit whatever is there with HE either just not happening. Im not asking for any nerfs i'm asking for buffs in all the right places.

    I would at least like to be able to spot that little spec at the very top of a mountain and you know where its coming from. Lancers and Vortex suffer badly do to the tracer and all the charging up it puts off, thats a good reason to stay high up in the first place and i do not blame one for doing so, but at least give me a bag of doritos to know the distance and direction before i get squaded by a dozen of them. Give me something man!
  8. Bananenweizen

    There is no reason to nerf the performance of the Vortex, it is in a quite right spot now. What should be handled is the broken mechanics of being able to damage stuff far, far away behind the rendering distance. So cap the range and buff it in other aspects if necessary (read: in case the weapon starts performing significantly worse because of the cap).
  9. gloowa

    Never said it's bad @ AV. All i said was it's performing (on average, when you take all statistics, not those that suit your agenda) worse than other launchers. And you call for nerfs.

    You also forgot to take avg BR into account, which is 50 for Striker but 70 for Lancer. Which means more outfit players and coordination.

    Also you neglected to take note that Lancer actually has a learning curve, which can be seen by comparing Q1 KPU (Lancer~1.8, Phoenix~3.0) with Q4 KPU where Lancer and Phoenix come VERY close together, but Phoenix still winning.

    Also please take note how the advantage in vKPH Lancer has over Phoenix is about the same as the advantage Phoenix has over Lancer in KPH (around 3 points, +/- 1, depending on day) Coincidentally, same can be observed about KPU: difference between Lancer and Phoenix in KPU and vKPU is more or less (depending on day) 1 unit, with Lancer winning in AV department and Phoenix overall.

    And you want to take Launcher that already performs worse overall (average over all statistics) and lower the only statistics it has better than phoenix (vehicle kills) so that it would be same as Phoeanix. If you do that, tell me, honestly, what's the point of Lancer existing? Why would i use weapon that is worse in every single department where it isn't of equal strength as some other weapon?

    Honestly, any launcher is see in need of changes is Striker, which always lags behind either Lancer or Phoenix. Let's hope that Striker revamp brings it back to usefulness.
  10. Takara


    SO this highlighted, and rather long run on sentence, pretty much explains EVERYTHING!

    You got hit from the NE. YOU KNOW YOU GOT HIT FROM THE NE! And instead of going to see what hit you. You ignored it. You didn't try to run...you didn't try to go find out what was hitting you. You just sat there, and repaired. LOW AND BEHOLD! YOU DIED! Why? Because well you know something was hitting you from that direction you didn't try to seek cover from it, and didn't think it would be a good idea to go find it until AFTER it murdered you.

    So then you went over there with a flash and found 4 lancers shooting at you and it was a problem dealt with promptly after you let people know?

    All that statement says is that you ignored four problems until it killed you. And you feel that the Lancer has a broken mechanic because it was damaging you and you KNEW where it was coming from and still died to it!

    Two days ago I drove a mag....I got shot by something that didn't render. I took a quarter health of my Mag instantly! BOOM.....I knew it came from behind me! SO I instantly mag burned and turned around to face what ever shot me and backed toward cover well watching for another shot. I got hit again...didn't see the object...I found some rocks and me and my gunner talked about it and repaired. We then went WAAAAY around the flank and followed back where we thought it came from....low and behold we found and engi turret out in the middle of ******* no where with an engi in it. And dealt with him swiftly.

    See...basically the same story only I didn't ignore the damage....and it didn't kill me. It isn't a broken mechanic if the game gave you enough information to know you took damage from a general location! THAT is all you need to know to get to cover. To ask a dumbfire rocket launcher to give a warning to a vehicle is silly.

    NOW i don't mind the idea of adding some unique sound effect on the lancer when it hits. That would be fine! But asking for the range nerf is silly when you just admitted to ignoring the problem that killed you.
  11. Flag

    I did not saying anything about the shot rendering.
    All I listed was the render range for vehicles, and the range where the lancer shot -disappears-, as in it won't travel further than 750 meters. The shot will be gone, vanished, and won't exist. Just like the ManaTurret and Raven missiles dissipating (or vanishing) at 450 meters.


    Well, like it or not that's part of what keeps the two weapons performing like they do. Remove that and expecting their performance staying the same if you nerf the range is wishful thinking.

    Or just let them keep their edge as they're not outperforming overall. Tough, the VS has an advantage somewhere. "oh noes"
  12. lothbrook

    Hitting vehicles past infantry render distance is a broken mechanic, and these weapons should be changed just like the AV turret was. There are other weapons that are offenders as well, the walker for example, should not have insane velocity but should instead get an increase in damage at close ranges.
  13. SanPelicano

    OMG pls stop sayin this BullPie and show me a video where the Lancer user is hitting the target at 800m, 3 times in a row in a medium-large scale battle..... At this range a tank is only a 2-3 pixels... good luck for it with no scope...Not to mention your aiming time is increasing your chance to be sniped out...

    Theoreticaly I can be a Justin Bieber, but literally I wont be able to be a garbageheap... You know theories and experiences are different things...

    Nerf is a nerf. There is always a cost of nerf...

    If devs capped the its range at 450m -as you mentioned-, It would remain - as you said - "broken". Tankers wont see me when i hit them....
    If Lancer got a 300m range, it would be totally useless, because its DPS is too low. Anni would outperform it.



    As I remember, every OP and then nerfed stuffs became OP for forumwarriors because its userbase was increased.

    I mean prenerf striker and annihilator were OP because everybody used them...

    ZoE was not a problem until every Vanu started to use them. Which is okish, it was too good... Sometimes 40% of vs players pulled out a Zoe Max in a battle. This made it gamebreaker....Nobody would complain about 1-2 prenerf ZoE Maxes.....

    PPA was the same for a 1-1,5 year, nobody complained about it...Then devs nerfed Saron (2 hit -> 3hit to kill infantry)... Tankers started to use PPA against infantry.... BANG... Suddenly It became an OP, gamebreaking thing... then they nerfed it...

    The same happened with AV-turrets.... There were a lot of them in every single large scale battle. They melted down everything in a minute because of their numbers -> lots of whines and tears on forum-> range nerf....

    Until Lancers userbase is low (like now), it cant be gamebreaking, it has no real effect on all of the battles.... So until players dont use it because they think it sucks, it wont get a nerf IMO..

    *cought* Lancer is underpowered dont use it o_O pls DONT...
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  14. Juunro

    I play primarily as an AV tanker; I hunt sunderers and farm-rider PPA crabs.

    The lancer's damage is fine; it doesn't do much, it's accuracy is high, yes, but you can get into cover against it IF it is rendering for you. Wherein lies the problem.

    I don't want the silly things damage or range nerfed; I want the rendering engine to actually render every one of those little dudes up on the mountain so I can, with perception and caution, see ambush zones. There is no counter argument to this: Something not rendering shouldn't be able to kill that which it is not rendering to. It does not matter what it is; If the intended target cannot see it, it cannot reasonably react to it, and that is bad game design.

    Keep it like it is if you like; I am completely fine with that, but for gods sake fix the stupid rendering system.
  15. zombielores

    It didn't render, that was my point, everything in the game either renders within their range or has a warning before you get hit, Lancer, Ravens, and Vortex don't render and you don't know what your getting hit by, I'll give you my phoenix part again it can reach 600m, it won't render if your more then 300m out, and there is no possible way of countering it that means you can't shot it down, how would you like it, I bet you won't like it just as much as i do.

    Your example is not the same story, AV turrets do render within their 450m range, if you get hit, you can see it, now if that was a Lancer, how would you find it, you can go around but their not glued to a flat surface and they don't have a render range difference. It was a broken mechanic on the AV turret a few months ago and it still is a broken mechanic now but some Vanu seems to be fine with it now because not everyone has it.

    Also, the direction your getting hit from is not exact, it's within a general degree to which your getting hit from like the death screen, unless you can spot them you won't know where, what if I tell you your getting hit from the SW and your assaulting howling pass, how do you find where they are, SW is a direction you look but how in the world am I suppose to find where they're are positioned, please educate me on how to find something I can't see.

    So answer my 2 questions.
    #1. How come it's not a broken mechanic now but it was a broken mechanic with the AV turret a few months ago.
    #2. How am I suppose to fight something I can't see or fight and cannot be counter.
  16. Nepster

    And Pheonix spawn warriors are ok?

    Everything is OP when there is a organized squad or platoon of almost every thing!

    If you play solo with lancer you almost can't kill one thing with it.

  17. Forumside


    I used to do it all the time when I used the Lancer (I have it Auraxium'd and don't use it anymore). I have to use a multiresolution mouse though and reduce the resolution by 30% to gain the sensitivity to be able to control it. Even then, there are only a handful of places where you can actually get that much distance and that's primarily the bases along the ridge that split the northern and southern halves of Indar. Otherwise you simply don't have enough altitude to be able to get a line of sight 800m away.

    The Lancer is JUST fine. Past 500m it's only good at hitting stationary or slow moving big targets (such as tanks and Sundies). If you're dying to a group of them, then sorry but that's how the game is going to work. It's incredibly weak by itself and requires groups to be useful.

    It also requires skill (and a multiresolution mouse) to aim properly (same as the engy turret). Beyond all this, there is only a small percentage of area where the Lancer is truly king. The VS know ALL the spots where it's king and pull them in those places. Outside of those places, you rarely carry it because the dumbfire is better.
  18. Forumside

    Also to everyone comparing it to the engy turret, stop. The engy turret has/had infinite ammo, didn't take up any space (other than the AI turret), and above all, was much more powerful. The VS long range lasers are fairly weak, require you to charge (which makes shooting a lot harder), and above all, have limited ammo capacities.
  19. Aldaris

    Lancer is fine.
  20. Cest7

    If they do this to an already gimpy weapon (Lancer) then they would have to do it for everything else.

    Raven missiles that shoot 300m. Is this the balance you want OP?

    LOS is the balancing factor of these weapons, Even if you cannot SEE the enemy you get a directional hitmarker warning.

    Use your head, don't go that way.