Canis. Why it's not OP

Bad troll shoo.

Just played with it for the first time outside of VR and it's extremely powerful (well duh).
It doesn't need to fire fast because most hits will be headshots if you can hit in the general upper torso area. Guess it sucks if you can't.
The generous magsize and lightning reload means very little downtime.

As an Adr Shield heavy you can just keep going until you run out of ammo, which I managed to do several times.

Haven't used unstable ammo outside of the first 20-30 minutes of using it. I maintain that the gun, when I use it, is better without unstable ammo.

That said. I love the thing and if they got rid of unstable ammo tomorrow I'd be happy because then we could have a real conversation about the weapon. Instead of "omg hitbox hacks!!"

WITHOUT UA It's got good accuracy, good damage to mid range and the spin up with a huge magazine is almost game breaking when facing multiple opponents. The chain kills I've pulled off with the Canis would normally only be possible with an LMG. Coupled with a 1.75 short reload it's borderline broken even without everyone thinking you're cheating with UA.

Totally not OP, ye-e-ea-a-ah...
(left - standard ammo, right - unstable ammo)

Yep, the head hitbox extends *above* too. It's basically a head that goes from shoulder to shoulder and is about double in height.

Head on Infantry turns into the size of an entire max torso.

Things you folks must consider before screeching:

It's an SMG, CQC should win against pretty much everything but a shotgun.
Outside CQC the canis is just less viable then the other empire specific (why? Becouse it's muzzle velocity and fire rate is pointless)
Hipfiring is also NERFED by the UNSTABLE AMMUNITION by a large amount.

Give me a 200dmg Canis and take the ammo away, I'M SO FINE with that.

Not OP.

To be honest in the last few days I've been killed more by the Gladius than the Canoe (autocorrected but it's funny so I'll leave it). Doesn't really feel like UA is that much of a problem for me yet. I feel like wind up mechanics are kind of lame so I wouldn't mind it getting that removed and instead having a smaller ammo size and losing the 10m max dmg so the other emps could stop feeling like their toes are being stepped on.

Another thing to consider guys, is that even if one faction has the best smg, there are 4 more weapon classes coming out, VS may have the "best" smg but NC may have the "best" AR and TR may have the "best" LMG.

Seriously people have been asking for new ES stuff for forever, be happy and learn to asymmetrical combat.

I`m up to Assymetrical Combat with both hands when content "package" goes to LIVE servers as whole (whole package of ES weapons), which means every faction gets something they`re "stronger" in. Releasing only SMGs with their current implementation - it is a kick in the nuts to TR (mostly) and NC.

I actually have a an argument/mathematical proof that the Canis is overpowered. It relies on understanding the "locational damage" in PS2 (HS multiplier - check http://iridar.net/planetside2/weapons/weapon-mechanics/) as well as some quick estimates of hitbox proportions from the image above.

You see, per the locational damage I deal different damage according to where I hit an opponent:

• Damage headshot = 2.0*DMG
• Damage bodyshot = 0.8*DMG (assuming nanoweave)

where DMG is shorthand for the weapons damage. As a player who likes to outgun my opponent, should I only go for headshots then? Not necessarily, since there can be a greater chance of missing in this case. Considering my chances of hitting is also important. Say if I have 20% chance to hit if going for the head, and 60% chance to hit if going for the body, I would have:

• Expected damage headshot = 0.2*2.0 = 0.40*DMG
• Expected damage bodyshot = 0.6*0.8 = 0.48*DMG

So probabilistically speaking I would be better off if going for the body with these chances. And that is disregarding the fact that misses on bodyshots may unexpectedly land on the head, not really unrealistic considering the upwards recoil on many weapons.

In an abstract sense, what I'm trying to do when playing PS2 is to use my computer mouse to place a first area (the places where my bullets may go) onto a second area (my opponents hitbox). In doing so I try to maximize my expected reward. Sometimes the first area is so large in comparison to the second that going for bodyshots is optimal. This is particularly noticeable on shotguns having slug ammunition. Other times it can be skill that decides, for instance with enemies who sprint in a predictable but difficult to hit path.

Needless to say, this is still an area, and can be charachterized by its size. When skill, COF, and situations varies, then one thing that always remains the same is the hitbox size. This is in turn intrinsically linked to my expected reward because if I have X percent chance to hit something of size Y, I should have X/Z chance to hit something of size Y/Z. Example: if I can hit a dime at 20 meters with 50% chance, I should have 25% chance to hit half a dime.

By this reason, on a normal weapon I can define an expected damage by weighting it over the proportion of the head to body ratios. Using mathematics I have

Expected DMG = DMG*HeadRatio*2 + DMG*BodyRatio*0.8

where HeadRatio is the size of the head in the total area (head + torso) and BodyArea analogous. Just estimating from a frontal view, the torso has the size of 3 heads, giving a HeadRatio of 0.25, a BodyRatio of 0.75, and an expected damage of DMG*1.1.

The unstable ammo on the other hand, increases the size of the head 3 times and the body by the size of 1.5 heads (visually estimated). This gives me a HeadRatio of 0.4, a BodyRatio of 0.6, and an expected damage of DMG*1.28. In percentage terms this is about a 16% increase, and the 167 DMG bullets on the Canis would give me an expected damage of 213, compared to 183 without the special bullets.

I don't care that one SMG is more powerful than the others. I have a preference as to which I would like that to be, but if I don't get my wish, that's ok. It's impossible to have things be both different and the same. Something has to end up on top or bottom. Same thing will happen as new ES weapons are released.

None of this is what people are complaining about right now.

With current location of capture points and base layouts - Canis have hugeHUGE upperhand by working on intended distance (<15m). For last two days straight when i`m on VS fromt i see Canis plasma balls everywhere, local leaderbords are 70-80% filled with Canis hipsters and VS capturing points (given they`re located in buildings) with insane low population (like 20-25% VS).

You`re still gonna defend your new OP toy?

Indeed?

*Re-checks posts concerning new SMGs from the past week

Are we reading from the same forum?

i dont like the new gun at all. is the fire rate that is stated in the description only achieved when its at its max "fire spinup"?
I used to go with the sirius and its alot faster and i get more kills with it, it seems. It just takes longer to kill with the new weapon. I didnt try unstable ammo yet, though. But it spreadens fire quite a bit so not sure i want that.

I agree, if it was up to me these weapons would be released together in One Big Patch after an extended period in the test server where they can be balanced and polished to nip crap like this in the bud. Sadly as it is, it looks as though the players here will have to undergo the arcane and ancient practice of patience, either until the nerf hammer has been swung or the new weapons drop.

wait,why is the "OP cause everything is an automatic headshot" weapon all of a sudden getting barely any headshots at all?
looks to me like people are crying wolf and everyone getting wolfs now.

Only the finishing blow indicates if it was a headshot or not, so unless every shot fired that was a kill shot was a head-shot it won't show there as only head-shots.
IE 99% headshots, with 1 body-shot, would still show as a body-shot kill.
If the Canis' finishing shot was always a head-shot, that would be more bloody scary, than the head-shot spam.

Just to point out the obvious.

The complaint is in regards to the Unstable Ammo turning target heads into the size of the recently retired Auraxis Pumpkins. It's an unfair game mechanic that favors lack of skill over skill. You have to be very careful when introducing those.

so every canis user does 2 headshots followed by 2 bodyshots and barely anyone does it the other way around?

Are you seriously arguing that every Canis user's kills must not contain a plentiful amount of head-shots, and that they must mystically balance them out, rather than the possibility that the sheer number of shots hit are head-shots but not the final bullet?

Like dear lord, Go read the thread, the stats, the pictures..
Headshots are easier to land with this ammo.
And go figure.
Hell the head-shot damage capability is being adjusted due to this, while ammo is in use...

there is 0 evidence we have that all the headshots are what makes it OP and the screenshot that was posted even proves the opposites.
maybe we end up in a few days the canis does barely any headshot damage anymore and suddenly people still cry about the weapon cause headshots weren't the issue afterall and the easier time to hit bodyshots was.