Can we PLEASE nerf Infiltrators already?

You're making claim about me moving a goalpost. Saying things like "here WE are, claiming...".

I think you need to go recheck just what assertions you think I've made.

Seems like you're straight up rolling around with a strawman... or trippin'

I would love to see where you got those stats from. The last known stats available are from 6 years ago, and state:

Most played: Heavy with 26%

Second most played infil: 18.2%

Just to clarify we don't count engineer because they're the class for vehicle mains.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside..._played_classes_ha_26_eng_20_infla_18_med_13/

That's not a vast margin, and on top of that, the number of infils has likely spiked over the years given how much the class has been buffed.

It's not just the counter to heavies, it's the most efficient infantry killing class. While it may not rack up the kpm of a good heavy, it's the class for people who can't really aim and need a cheesy method to guarantee a few kills. One thing I've noticed is it's a vehicle main's go-to class when they're out of nanites.

Anyone who says this 100% sucks at playing heavy. If anything it's more of an "I-lose" button. You've gotta be a noob if you think speed penalty and 407 extra health with higher ttk weapons is what gives you a win in this game. In any case medics can take more damage than a heavy could ever dream of and they get to keep their mobility!

People play the heavy for it's crowd control potential, and it's versatility. Considering this is supposed to be a mmo combined arms fps, it makes sense. However, when people want to win infantry fights, they pull infils. And that's why there's so many infils around, when really based on the game concept the class should be even less used than a MAX.

Shields have already been nerfed! I don't see really what more they could do.

Medkit chugging isn't unique to heavy, literally every class but MAX have access to them. A medic with medkits is more scary than a heavy. I don't really get this logic. A 10s cooldown on medkits?!?!?! Lol. You're only allowed 4 and they give movement penalty unless you jump properly anyways, if the dude is quick and lucky enough to save himself by chugging medkits, whatever.

What you're asking for was done years ago back when the shield and old NWA made them legitimate monsters with almost 2k hitpoints. Today they are about perfect.

Never been patronized before, have we?
I wouldn't call what you're doing "moving the goalpost" per se, more like "bulldozing the playing field, grading and building a freaking Wal-Mart at half-time".

I think you need to recall which one of us sought this conversation out and provide an actual response to what I wrote instead of some half-***** "single line snarky dismissal attempt". Either put up or piss off.

Moving the goalposts? Dude I didn't even put them on the field.

What you're doing is taking an argument you are having with someone else and confusing their points in your response to me.

...and being a patronising as5hole while doing it. Get *** ed.

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I think you need to go scroll back. You're over here shaking your little impotent fist at the wrong guy. Piss off indeed.

You should really Google what things mean. You claimed the class is overused and overperforms, and when confronted with evidence to the contrary, suddenly how many there are and how many kills they get is no longer important.

Wrong. What I am doing is responding to you after you saw fit to interject yourself in a separate conversation in an obnoxious manner then tried to backpedal away while pretending you didn't really do anything. Then you have the nerve to get offended when the gloves come off. Grow up.

And all things considered I'm really being quite polite, after all I've used the word "idiot" only once.

Every post I've made to you in this thread has directly quoted things you have said. If I've got the wrong guy you need to change your forum password.

There's for sure a multitude of bottom-feeding snipers on every big battle nowadays, probably when those stats were published there were, as you say, way less, and it's snowballing because not being able to play a shooter the way it should be is turning all of us into counter-snipers and playing catch up with them. Hossin is practically becoming unplayable outside buildings. Something needs to be done.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

100000% agree

Can anyone explain the logic behind making infils nearly as durable as a resist shield heavy while cloaked and maintaining full speed? Cloak should flat out drain shields while being used (redirection of power) with different drain rates for each type of cloak. A cloaked infil should be his most vulnerable state rather than tankiest. Sniper rifles need increased flinch or a cof that takes half a second to settle. Theres no reason an infil should be able to survive 5 head shots and then pop off a single one and kill you.

Probably the logic that a shielded Heavy can shoot at the cost of mobility while an Infil cannot shoot thus retains mobility. Honestly the only benefit of NAC should be the flat increase in hitpoints to normal infantry levels. The cloak+overshield always seemed a little off for the class.

Disabling the shield would cause issues with some of the implants and wouldn't really address the issues some people have with the class which mainly seems to be its visibility up close. Cloak could lose visual fidelity over time much like the Heavy's shield loses hitpoints while it's in use, or simply be more visible at shorter distances altogether.
Sniper rifles are already plenty vulnerable to flinch. The majority of the time when you hit a sniper and it seems not to matter it's because your shots didn't register before you died. That's a Clientside problem increasing flinch will do nothing to mitigate, and things like Battle Hardened will basically eliminate it regardless.
Increasing CoF will have a similarly minor effect. There is already a lengthy Move->Standing CoF recovery time but since most snipers only shoot when stationary it's basically never a factor.

Stop. Where did I say that? I said nothing about overperforming. I said the Infil is over used and I was pretty clear it was subjective based on fun.

I gave no evidence.

Evidence to the contrary of what?

Suddenly nothing. My views are consistent on the topic. What you're trying to grapple with is that nobody is convinced or actually cares about the statistics you are trying to peddle. So when someone doesn't pay them any mind you think you just got them so good that they can't argue back.

I'm not backpedaling from anything I've done. You are. Trying to pretend that this display of being an utter ******* for no reason is justified. It's not.

"fit to interject". It's called a reply and there wasn't anything obnoxious about it. You don't have to get offended by it's mere existence. Is this the point you're talking about? When you said this...?

Which I disagree with. It does NOT **logically** mean that.

And you felt the gloves had to come off after that post? And now you're telling someone else to grow up?

Dude.

Keep bugging the devs to try and inject a better and more enjoyable experience when dealing with infiltrators. A few more detection methods delivered to different classes could already go a long way.

I really can't complain because I cancelled my membership after 4 yrs because of infils. I do agree there's two sides to every story. How about cloaked dogs deployed like spitfires that only attack and kill (cloaked) infils. Chew the crap out of them )))

Not really. They 1 shot kill you. Even if they pinged in the map, the cloack was more visible, the delay was longer etc, it's ludicrous as they will 1 shot you and skilled players will do this exceedingly efficient. When playing as infiltrator, you risk very little as you can cloak and redeploy, but everyone else risks being 1-shot by you.

This problem has already snowballed into very respectable vets resorting to cloak with 1hk pistols and 1hk bolt actions to turn the tides of a battle. When you have close to 1/3 of the pop on a big battle being invisible, the very nature of the game gets subverted into a dungeons and dragons wizardry and magic feel and everyone's play style has to forcefully adapt to that fact.

The only way to fix the infiltrator class is to remove cloak from the game. Sorry for you guys who abuse this flaw in a joint arms game, 1 person shooter game, but nothing else will do. I reckon the devs are not ready to lose 1/3 of the player base so this won't happen, but any tool slot cloak or delays added to shooting from cloak etc won't do a thing to how this game is been subverted and turned into a travesty of what it used to be.

Exactly as was done in PS1. And surprise, basically no one complained about the class!

Even in PS2 beta the devs weren't dumb enough to add cloak 1hk without giving others an option to counter. With the silly nanoweave nerf, now there's literally nothing to do but countersnipe.

Hey guys, here's an idea. Why don't, instead of arguing based off "he said, she said" and a few quotes, you restate what you mean or meant to say, then go from there. Why don't you, instead of quoting each other, quote yourself? Why can't you see what the other person is talking about, because I can see exactly what Kane was talking about.

It amazing me how you guys have a hammer with a 10 inch diameter head on it and you still fail to hit the nail on the head. Its funny how you guys always go to the cloak when you have a specific weapon in mind. You want to blame the cloak. You want to say that you lost because you couldn't see him. No, you need to realize a simple fact. You would have lost regardless. You would have gotten 1 shot just as easily because it didn't matter if you could see them if they could see you. Your chance of survival may have been slightly higher, but if you aren't always moving as if you were going to get instantly killed every second you are alive, you would have died regardless. Players who are good with CQC BASRs, the weapons that seem to be on everyone's mind when they say that Infiltrators are OP, are able to get you whether you are standing still, flying, jumping, running, or strafing. It doesn't matter. You would have lost regardless. You yourselves say it. You just want to feel as if you could have done something. Its not simply a problem of the cloak and not being able to detect them, but that you would have died even if you could.

Therefore, make the weapons harder to use. If they are harder to win engagements with, your death would be warranted. Make the recoil much higher. Remove the straight pull bolt attachment and force you to rechamber sniper rifles and shotguns by tapping a key instead of automatically, which would already help in those regards. Remove zoom attachments for the rifles, or give them a constant scope sway. Make the handling worse while moving. Do whatever you need to to make it harder to win an engagement with them, so that the people who do deserved it. Then you can fix the cloak. If you fix the seat of a chair before you fix the legs, then you sit down on it, you are still gonna be wobbly. Fix the weapons that support the cloak, then fix the cloak. You may find you didn't need to change much.

Aye, I disagreed on one point but certainly saw eye to eye with others (we never got to that bit). I think the bridge is burned at this point though. **** wasn't necessary.

Regarding the broader topic I've suggested a few times putting the cloak on an additional weapon slot then buffing it! It takes away the "fire while invisible" while still keeping the full invisibility, all the ohk weapons, etc.

I don't really find the ohk weapons as frustrating as others maybe. Is what it is, good aim and he got me. The only aspect of it that is frustrating is when it's done while invisible. I had no chance to make it harder on him with a juke, and he doesn't have to really deal with my skill at all unless he misses.

Snipers also.. yeah just don't bug me as much. They are (quote unquote) "firing while invisible" but it's the good kind of invisible. The kind where even without a cloak they would be in the distance and I would be unlikely to see them just due to positioning and maybe some camo. That kind of firing while invisible seems fair?

I do think your idea is reasonable, but I think it'd look weird in comparison to have your ability in another slot instead of just clicking F. Thats why I wanted to do the exact same thing but with more work. But your idea does make sense. By doing that, you can't aim while you are uncloaking because of the switch back. But honestly, it would be cooler if you click F and you put your gun away and hit your wrist or wherever like there is a button to turn off your cloak, then you pull it back out. Then have all the same numbers as if you were switching weapons. I think an animation like that would look cooler, and Infiltrators wouldn't have to relearn how to play because of the lack of F. But I do see why you would want them to change how they play. Having to relearn something makes them easier to deal with for a time because the mistake would be on their part.

But from what I see, if you have a decent optic for the range you are staying at, which is easier in close range than in long range because of the changing ranges of people, you are hitting the head just as easily as any other player could on their first shot, so you'd usually come out on top. Thats why I say they need to be nerfed in usability, so that those who actually are using them well will benefit more and the results will be less staggered.

F could still cloak/uncloak, just make it do the weapon switch to that special slot. Hitting actual number keys could still be an option, but it shouldn't be the only one. That would be a really unfun mechanic.

Alright, sure, but it better have a cool animation on weapon switch, activation, and deactivation.

You forget the best possible advice : "Don't get shot!"

While i'd be down for some straight nerfs to snipers in general, Infil as a class is the real problem.

Yes, there are times where it wouldn't matter if they had cloak or not, just as with any other class, but the vast majority of deaths to (or largely assisted by) infils is due solely to cloak.

Radar/recon is just as bad as the cloak. It either needs to be completely reworked/nerfed into the ground, or the only direct counter to it buffed so that R5 gives you full stealth even while sprinting and no distance. How this ever passed testing, and has stayed in the game without any real nerfs is beyond me.

EMP is the third big problem, and it needs, in the very least, to not hit though walls. Or turn it into an EMP for getting rid of deployables, and bring back the reticle scrambling in ADS, but get rid of shield dmg.

Final large problem is NAC, which just does too much. Either remove the 100 extra shields or remove the resist.


And just in case, I wouldn't only nerf infil; heavy, light, and medium could all use some nerfs to, just they are far more balanced than Infil.