Can we give ESFs a higher bullet velocity?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by SinerAthin, May 18, 2013.

  1. St0mpy

    ah this i like, yes its partly a proximity issue too, and while there may be a manoeuvre to dig ourselves out of a hole if we could just shoot like any other jet sim we wouldnt have to counter arc or take time exposing ourselves (behind is always the best place to fight from imo :) ) creating distance for a bad game mechanic, wed just keep shooting as we follow into the turn and the bullets wouldnt fall away.

    When im in a lead pursuit and firing and they turn (as they do) im missing the bullets having a set drop, not falling away faster the more I turn, its an exponential loss of aim. It was kinda ok before the rotary nerf but after I was finding myself nosing up and trying to correct attitude like you suggest (i think) but how can anyone aim at a target moving upscreen or left, when the actual targeting reticule disappears off the bottom screen the closer we get, its just crazyness, I tend to cling onto the turn and hope they either get bored and pull out so I can level my aim, or turn more slowly than they to get my shots on first, but that always closes distance of the pair to potentially contact. Do i win? not always but I feel safe as long as we are turning, if i cant get his tail, hes not getting mine either.

    Anyway I appreciate you throwing in your experiences, always good to hear how other pilots cope, just its annoying to end up in that situation and feel my weaponry is less than it could be, thanks to the previous nerf.
  2. Kapernum

    It was hinted that Scythe would have its bullet velocity increased. It wasn't said if that was for the rotary or the new yet to be released A2A primary.

    I'd like to see all A2A primaries have a bullet velocity of 680-720.
  3. pica

  4. TheRealMetalstorm

    Hm, I don't want this to be like another jet sim because they degrade to turning battles and exploiting the flight egg if it even exists. It gets repetitive.
    Having a difficult manoeuvre you can pull to grab an advantage raises the skill ceiling more anyway, which is good IMO.

    And no you should never fly lead pursuit unless you want to close the gap. Always fly lag or at most pure pursuit. In order to have a gun solution while flying such a pursuit curve, press "descend" as you turn. It keeps your nose up but since your net thrust vector is below your point of aim for your nosegun, you will maintain a lag pursuit curve while having a better gun solution.

    Also if you expect to be able to keep on tail all the time while spraying bullets that connect, then you have the wrong idea - let out a burst of fire, reload as you drop to lag pursuit, keep distance enough to fire but not enough for him to disengage... it's about managing your closing velocity in this game when it comes to chasing fights. You shouldn't pull so hard when they're pulling a turn just to get a few hits - follow them instead and when they flatten out slightly hit them.

    Don't really think we should expect the game to make it too easy for us

    Just a slight increase in velocity will help.
  5. St0mpy

    Bit confused here, If im not pulling ahead (effective angle of a lead pursuit) when I open fire ill miss my target.

    In any other sim that wouldnt happen but unless im nosing his tailpipe making him fill my centre point, when I first fire it has to be from what is a lead pursuit angle because of the bullet drop of the rotary. If i put my nose on or behind him as you suggest im not going to hit, the bullets will fall away behind/below right? But as soon as i nose into a slight lead and fire my bullets hit, and i can either hold the same vector, or transition to lag and let him fly through my bullet stream as much as possible, or let his turn take it to a lag resulting in same (and variations of etc..)
  6. Garakan

    yes, please.
    increase the velocity.
  7. BengalTiger

    This was done so that the rotary is a sidegrade and not an upgrade from the single barrel gun.

    Default: High velocity, high accuracy,
    Rotary: High damage, close range.

    Earlier it was:
    Default: High velocity, high accuracy,
    Rotary: High damage, high velocity, high accuracy; no disadvantage.
  8. Metallic123

    This is why I play infantry and use my mossie as a taxi lol.
  9. lilleAllan

    As a Reaver pilot I must say that drop does frequently play a role in AA combat.
  10. Prudentia

    The funny thing is, they nerfed the velocity, so ESF AAguns were less effectiv vs the slower moving and smallet targets and focus more on the fast moving, big targets... err... what?
  11. TheRealMetalstorm

    If this post fails i'll draw a diagram next time round.

    Your point of aim (the little circle reticle for the rotary) is NOT always the direction in which your craft is travelling. This occurs when you apply v.thrust. When you apply negative v.thrust (descend) your true airspeed heading point is lower than the point of aim of your weapon system. This allows you to fly a lag/pure pursuit curve WHILE still being able to lead your target. Hence you don't ever need to close in too far.
  12. TheRealMetalstorm

    It does for the mosquito and reaver, most pilots just do not notice it.
  13. Xhaleon

    I think they should try implementing a global ~100 m/s velocity increase on the test server, if only for just a few days just to see how it works out.

    I do not know the limitations of the Forgelight engine with regards to bullet velocities, but I know that at least almost all weapons will definitely not break the speed barrier of the engine, and only the fastest traveling projectiles (AFAIK, ESF stock autocannons) run the risk of doing that.

    I say it would be better for the game with that ~100 m/s increase in velocity, especially for snipers. Currently, only the RAMS .50M, Longshot and Parallax are worth using simply because they have an acceptable velocity for most practical sniping positions. With a ~100 m/s increase, the basic and middle-tier sniper rifles become much more viable as alternatives, and the old holy trinity will be shifted over to the extreme end of sniping ranges as well as for hitting moving targets a little better. Exactly where the balance it should be, but currently isn't.
  14. Kapernum

    The rotary is however still a significant upgrade to the default weapon.
  15. BengalTiger

    But to a lesser degree than it used to be, so I guess the idea worked.

    I still use the default nose gun, it's excellent for harassing Liberators at nearly render distance- something the Vortek cannot even dream of doing, not to mention the AH.

    P.S. I wonder if the velocity buff will be for all guns or just for one or two types.
  16. Kapernum

    The idea didn't work at all. Any serious pilot will use the rotary just as before, unless they want a medal with the default.

    You lose your dog-fighting ability and a superior TTK against all targets just so that you can deal **** damage from afar slightly more effective than the rotary (and if you can lead properly the rotary is still better at this). Doesn't sound very appealing or to me.

    If this is you, , then it says you have a SPM of 35 in the Reaver after 32 hours played and haven't even used the Vortek.
  17. Kurohagane

    Yes, it's very annoying as a VS player. Not implying anthing is OP or unbalanced, but it irritates me that i do better at dogfighting with a stock reaver/mosquito than a rotary scythe.
  18. BengalTiger

    Time spent and weapons used in VR are not accounted into stats, and it's possible I've spent another 30 hrs flying there, experimenting, training and instructing...

    Another thing is that score per minute when parked near the combat zone, looking at the map and leading a squad, platoon (or larger thru /leader) isn't exactly high either. :p

    Anyways, down to hard numbers: Rotary&weapon1Upgrade0=4

    Vortek vs Liberator: 6.24 seconds (or 7.74 without ammo capacity upgraded) Mustang&weapon1Upgrade0=4

    Mustang vs Liberator: 9.34 seconds (it's 2 magazines with or without ammo capacity increased, TTK is constant)

    The Mustang has 750 m/s bullet velocity, vs 650 for the Vortek, and nearly perfect accuracy, vs quite visible spread (can't find the CoF for them though*).
    The default gun is easier to lead shots with and much more accurate at range- where the rotary's bullets begin to spray around the target while the single barrel gun's still hit right where they're aimed at.
    When both guns are stock, the default cannon needs 20% more time to kill a Liberator, so I wouldn't call it's sustained damage **** either.

    *- has:

    Mustang Accuracy
    Some Value:0.3
    Someother Value:0.1

    Vortek Accuracy
    Some Value:0.5

    ...But I'm not sure if it's a good source.
  19. Kapernum

    Not sure what we're discussing here.

    The Vortek is a direct upgrade to the default. To the same degree as before the nerf. Using anything else is handicapping yourself.