[Suggestion] Can TR Have Our Trait Back?

Not really. And yes, I have auraxed it.

I knew you'd pick the Orion against the CARV.
The Orion has half the mag size of the both the CARV and the SAW, the SAW is also two damage tiers above the others. Why don't you look at the MSW-R and the GD-22S, both 50 rnd mag LMGs at 143 damage, like the Orion?

Being a "VS loyalist" (as I have been called in the past) I am concerned about certain things that are being said in this thread, primarily, that limiting the fire rate of NC/VS is completely fine.

Now, hear me out, I support this entirely as faction traits NEED to be more pronounced (in my opinion).
Thinking logically, limiting fire rates of above 750 to the TR brings with it issues, namely:

If the Orion doesn't count, do any full-auto guns count? Besides SMGs that is.

Fixed my earlier post (It randomly posted then my machine crashed).

@TriumphantJelly Wouldn't it be possible to give a gun with 167 or 200 damage a shot equal DPS to a 845/143 weapons with out going over 700 ROF?

It would be balanced with the 845/143 guns because the 143 damage guns have more damage per-shot and missing a shot or two n cqc with a 845/143 damage gun would be mot a bad as doing the same with at 167 or 200 damage gun that had the same DPS.

Yes, but it would require new damage tiers which haven't been implimented in the past,, leadign me to assume that they are less technically feasible than we would like. Other issues are that with the Serpent/GD-7F you can spray'n'pray and get kills, lower fire rate would require more precise aim, which is not common in CQC (although lower damage also carries this penalty).

After doing some research, I have found that for a 155 damage tier to achieve equal DPS (within 1.5 for this one) it would require a RoF of 779: Far higher than the 700 mark for NC (as I have heard [well, seen] in this thread and still higher than the VS limit of 750. Anything higher than 155 (damage) probably impedes on the NC faction trait and also makes the Cyclone somewhat obsolete.

Also, a 700 RoF weapon can fire 11 rounds a second and an 845 RoF weapon can fire 14 rounds a second. The end result being that the 700 weapon that does 167 damage per shot can do 1837 in 1 second (1837 DPSe), whereas the 845/143 does 2002 DPSe. This means that the 700/167 is still less suited for CQC in every way. Other numbers like this apply to the 750/155: 1860 DPSe.

Of course, you could reduce accuracy by a large margin with the 845/143 gun (possibly larger considering that the TR trait is more rounds per magazine ergo often more DPM).

I've probably messed something up in this post, feel free to ask questions and point these mistakes out.

I was hoping you wouldn't notice... I just compared those three because they're the default weapons.

I really have no idea what the VS trait is. Tell you what, if this goes through I'll make another thread about giving the VS a trait.

I can agree that VS needs SOMETHING. It drives me crazy a bit really, such a beautiful missed opportunity.
As to NC's CQC abilities, given the brutal power of a CQC BASR, I can say that high damage/low RoF works just fine at close range. It's not like people don't make use of shotguns.

I want to give VS some kind of really cool tech ability, I don't know what exactly. We should devote some discussion to that, it fits well enough with the thread (as something that needs to happen in order for the thread's suggestion to happen).

So...
VS has lasers and plasma, correct?
Different things, so each should get its own trait.

Lasers are extremely high-precision, high-velocity weapons. Plasma would presumably hit hard, but it's low-velocity and probably pretty inaccurate (given that it's not all that dense).

So what traits does that give us?
-Laser weapons are 100% accurate and have a bullet velocity of c--that is, no travel time--but they do little damage. For balance purposes we might say that heat warps the barrel slightly after each shot, giving it a brief but considerable CoF increase after each round. Lasers should also do great headshot damage, given that they'd burn a hole in your brain. Oh, and they get to do light damage to armor. It's a frickin' laser.
So: High accuracy, low damage, low RoF (if you want to be accurate), no travel time, no bullet drop. Ultra-precise long range weapon. I'd give VS Laser Rifles in place of all their semi-automatic weapons.
-Plasma weapons are inaccurate and slow, but have huge ammo capacity (you can make plasma from air, so...), hit hard and can shoot fast. However, because plasmas are electromagnetically charged, they're easily deflected by (do less damage to) a presumably electromagnetic shield.
So: Low accuracy, high damage, medium RoF. Higher DPS than NC/TR, but lower accuracy. Meanwhile, they do reduced damage (~80%?) to shields. Also, all plasmas have a very small (~1m) explosion. So that encourages pouring concentrated fire into a small area. Highly effective at eliminating wounded enemies but somewhat weaker at precision engagements.

With the result being:
VS has two weapon categories that they must choose between based on the situation. For intense, close-range battles, plasmas are the weapon of choice, able to easily maul large groups of enemies, especially when used in teams. However, for longer-ranged skirmishing/flanking engagements, the laser is clearly superior, capable of eliminating single targets with deadly precision. This forces preparation on your part, such that you're stronger if you're prepared but if NC and TR can capitalize on their respective strengths, they still stand a chance--a match of skill, not raw stats.

Which is why NC needs excellent accuracy and VS, something new. TR gets imprecise DPS, NC gets precision power, VS gets (in the above suggestion) tactical strengths.

The VS plasma weapons could also do extra damage to Maxes because they are all armor and no shields and I think that 80% reduced damage to shields is a little much unless they had really high DPS to compensate.

Armor damage is laser's niche (most tanks don't have shields either).

When I said 80%, I meant they do 80% of normal damage: -20%. I can't edit that post any more though. So you'll probably do the same or slightly less DPS to a shielded person than the shielded person will to you with his faction equivalent, only you'll be less accurate (but then you get more DPS in the second half of the fight, plus you can hurt his buddies simultaneously).

Complaining about weapons that you just need to pull the trigger and shake in the general direction of the target(s) until they're dead, thanks to the never ending magazines ... wow, I mean, WOW !!!

For probably over the dozenth time, DPM doesn't change with this suggestion. Also, NC has more DPM in many cases (though not all, as in the case of Hailstorm vs Blitz).

I agree TR should have their RoF emphasized more but should also get their original PS1 drawback of lower damage. That was one of deciding factors for how TR functioned back in the day. They did lower than "average" damage but had higher RoF to keep the same DPS and then got larger mags to compensate for inaccuracy due to higher RoF.

If the TR did get a buff to just RoF and no nerfs on all their guns then things would get extremely broken. An example is there currently in the game, the MCG. The MCG had its damage buffed to 143 a while back to make it more competitive and at the time I agreed with buff as it could only clock up to a 800 or so RPM and had a spin up time. Now with the new attachment the MCG can clock up to nearly 900 RPM (rounding up a bit) and has nearly no spin up. I've seen single MCG users mow down whole squads with ease as the RoF coupled with the damage leaves people with very little response time. So imagine if it was part of said RoF buff and now it can exceed 1000RPM at 143. That's a lot of damage to spew out. I know lowering its damage back down won't do a whole lot but its the principal of RoF getting out of hand is what i'm getting at.

The suggestion includes dropping damage. If, say, the Hailstorm (800/125) goes up to, say, 900RPM (for ease of math) the damage would drop to 112, maintaining the same DPS (and the magazine size would go from 60 to 67, maintaining the same DPM, and the recoil would go down by 11%, maintaining the same recoil:damage ratio).

Simple, all weapons drop extra damage tier outside their natural damage drop. So 2 tier drop AR's, Bandit and something else. Guess Serpent and GD-7F count due to other reasons. Auto shoties