can anyone explain the current lib hate to me?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Hartkernharald, May 5, 2014.

  1. Cyrek

    It becomes an issue during non peak times when there isn't a lot of people and the few that are, are getting farmed by opportunist outfits in liberators.
  2. Hartkernharald

    this is still going on?
    alright, i have only skimmed the last few pages but it seemed to be all about "impossible to kill a lib, esf is dedicated lib counter, belly up, esf gone, etc".
    when i started, i played the lib for maybe 150 hours or something, then i went to various tanks for like 300 hours of playtime (about 100 hrs skyguard), now i have something like 150 hrs in the mossie and vehicles kinda start to bore me. anyway, the thing is: there are no counters, there's stuff shooting at other stuff. the esfs aren't lib counters, they are 1 seat 250 resource air vehicles. they can kill infantry, they can kill ground vehicles, they can kill airplanes. libs are 3 seat 350 resource air vehicles, they can kill infantry, ground, and air vehicles. i've killed more libs with a (non-skyguard) tank than i had tanks killed by libs.
    there's a battle going on around that lib problem, and pretty much everyone in a 800m radius around the lib is going to take pot shots at him. because why not?
    everyone here is obsessed with its capability to farm in a fight that's already won. he tanks can do that better. if you try to use the lib as an actual combat vehicle however, you'll notice that it's not very good. when i flew libs i was pretty much in a constant state of panic. as soon as you approach a battle, you'll have 384 things shooting at you at any given moment, all you ever do is running away from everything with your belly to the enemy so your gunner can maybe shoot at something that matters. and the very first esf you meet has a 95% chance of shooting you down.
    so i've pretty much given up on esf flying now as well since i'm completely unable to aim an airplane. i will lose pretty much every duel with another esf, but i'm pretty confident that i can kill 8 out of 10 libs in a 1 on 1 (or rather 1 on 3), simply because libs are so large that it's literally impossible to miss them. yes, i've been hit by the occasional lucky dalton shot, but i don't do any fancy barrel roll maneuvers, i just sit there, use ctrl/space a bit, shoot at them and see who dies first - it's usually them.
    if any of those "waah lib impossible to kill" people care about proving their point, my esf char is a tr on mattherson called "brahminfarmer". get a lib, get a gunner or two, shoot me down reliably (without ganking me like everyone else seems to do :p), and i'll be convinced. but i'm pretty sure most of you have never used a lib, could that be?
  3. Silus

    Which just means we on Connery pull more AA and have us a grand'ol time =D

    I kinda figured that was the case, as properly good Skyguard users are few. Takes an effort to want to run a vehicle that can't farm kills left and right.

    Honestly I wouldn't mind boost on assist XP for Skyguards, or at least for there to be like a 10/1 assist/kill ratio with regards to medals. Honestly I'll get like 20-30 assists during a run but only maybe 3-5 actual kills. :( I want my Auraxium Skyguard Medal D=
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  4. RaidsRUs

    I'll open my opinion with a qualifier: I've spent next to no time in a Liberator. In fact, I can only recall two particular occasions. Once, I was screwing around trying to keep the thing in the air in the VR room (I failed miserably at that); and then the other week a bunch of Libs were circling a tower so a buddy and I went to another nearby base with an aircraft terminal and pulled our own (stock) Liberator-- I barely got a half dozen shots off at the others before we were blasted out of the sky. With all this in mind, I'll now state that 99.99% of my experience with Liberators is from underneath them as a peasant.

    I think, based on nothing more than my own impressions that probably have little basis in reality, that the Liberator could do to be just a tad (a hair, a shade, or even a smidgen) slower and/or less agile (again, by no more than some minuscule, token amount). For every hovering Lib that I've seen, I've seen about twice as many dancing in circles, strafing, at some silly speed. Maybe it's just that my perception is off, or that most of the ones I've seen have been running whatever the Liberator equivalent of Racer is, but it always baffles me. I don't care if they keep the same armor and resists while retaining their firepower if they would be slowed down just the tiniest bit. Hell, I almost don't think I'd mind if these characteristics got bumped fractionally upwards if it would slow them down a bit. Again, not a whole lot. Just a little.
  5. a-koo-chee-moya

    Never seen libs be too effective on Waterson. Usually a couple of ESFs will take one down. They're amazingly slow (109-120 kph without performance upgrades) and you can only turn to face one enemy. If there's more than 2 skyguards or Anti-air turrets, you'll die if you go in. Most of my experience in the lib has been quick bombing runs usually cut short by ESFs/Skyguards/enemy libs and then spending most of the time in the warpgate repairing. The biggest upside is that all the enemy armor goes Skyguard because of the hate and your armor has the advantage.
  6. Kid Gloves

    Lemme try and sum up.

    Actually, no. Let me identify the problem.

    In massive PS2 battles, libs aren't OP. The resistance buff gave them a bit more staying power, but like many aircraft they fold fast when exposed to significant resistance.

    In tiny battles, liberators wreck face. To the extent that a 2/3 lib (or, lets be honest, a 2/12 gal or even an ESF) can pretty much shut down a fight.

    What the resistance buff has done is increased the required defensive team size under which libs are pretty much OP. Not by much, but probably by enough that it's causing a more noticeable impact.

    So really, the issue isn't the composite. It's not even the liberator. Composite went up to help libs out in big fights, but it impacts what they do in small fights. If you balance for small fights, the lib runs into problems in big fights again.

    There isn't a happy middle ground that can be achieved by finding the 'perfect' resistance value, because what constitutes lib-is-OP varies by too many factors. However, this doesn't change the fact that a lib shows up and ruins what was otherwise a fun fight, demoralises the enemy and possibly results in them logging off. Which is bad for everyone.

    So that's the source of the lib hate. It's not actually a composite problem, but composite has shifted the balance towards big fights - and a lot of people are finding their small-fight experiences impacted.

    What SOE should be doing isn't nerfing / buffing the liberator, but instead looking at ways to normalise the extremes of liberator performance (and ESF, and tank) between big and small conflicts so that a small force can mount an effective defence without sacrificing their game experience too much, while a big force still has to contend with the fact that liberators are a problem.

    It's not an unsolvable problem, but people will always identify the thing-what-killed-me as the source of their problem, rather than scratching deeper and recognising they are seeing the symptom, not the problem.
  7. Slandebande

    Eh, I just pulled a Liberator in VR, it had no problems climbing to 180kph, how did you get the 109-120kph? Sounds fishy o_O

    Even if we say it was 109-120, how is 109-120 kph amazingly slow? Compared to an ESF perhaps, but nothing else can keep up with it. If you had just written "slow", perhaps that would've been deemed alright, but I would honestly say that "amazingly slow" is a gross misrepresentation of the vehicles attributes. That it is then actually even faster, doesn't make it slow in the least. Did you even test this yourself? :p
  8. DxAdder

    Sadly you are the BFR of PS2 right now ... until the turn you into a paper tiger.
  9. Volccis

    Liberators arent really that powerful. They are very vulnerable against multiple flak and once there is multiple (2 or more) flak you cannot do nothing in Liberator than choose a different battle.
    Also if there isnt own ESFs and enemy has good ESF pilots then you are screwed again. It has its strengths and weaknesses.
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  10. a-koo-chee-moya

    Yes, I think I was just reading the HUD wrong since I usually fly in third-person and only first person for tank busting. Even when doing that, I am usually concentrating too much to notice.

    Nothing but ESFs is enough when you are weakened by flak/Skyguards and they have A2A missiles.
    I've flown libs for about 10 hrs and since you just "pulled in in VR Training" you clearly don't know too much about it.
  11. Slandebande

    I'm not sure I understand you. I corrected a statement you made, which was obviously incorrect. We are agreeing so forth right?

    Now, secondly, I objected to you calling 109-120kph amazingly slow, simply because there is only one other vehicle in the game capable of such speeds, the ESF. I simply objected to you using an extreme term, which is not very representative for how the vehicle performs in game. Do you still think the Liberator is "amazingly slow" or something like that? If the Lib is amazingly slow, what are all the other vehicles? Turtles, snails, sloths? Immobile? If you wanted the term used as a comparison with ESF speeds, you should have specifically stated so, instead of making it seem like the Liberator was so slow. The reason I'm skeptical is that you both listed the speed at a substantially lower level than what it can achieve in game, combined with you making an inaccurate description of the Libs speed. That was just a bit fishy in my book.

    Lastly, what does your next statement have to do with anything? I simply wrote the VR thing as an example of how easy it was to test it out for yourself. That you then conclude that I haven't spent any time in Liberators at all, is your own fault. Feel free to explain where that statement comes from, or did you just pull it out of your ****? Sorry, but I hope your last statement was a joke, as that was one the most pathetic attempts at discrediting what I write based on nothing :p
  12. Slandebande

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  13. a-koo-chee-moya

    Yes, I made a mistake, and I acknowledge that Libs are much faster than ground vehicles. However, they are completely different. Also, I did compare it to ESFs. 2 or 3 good ESFs can take a Liberator relatively easily, as you can only shoot one at a time, or if you only have auto belly weapon (shredder etc.) then the situation is even worse for the lib, as it can only face one direction. A couple of Maxs/Skyguards/flak can keep you off your target relatively easily and weaken you for ESFs.
  14. Trebb

    yep, died to more Lib spam. I was chasing one down with it's alleged counter, an A2A ESF, when TWO MORE killed me.

    Yup, teamwork! Except everyone's using Libs. And I'm done. /uninstalled until I read patch notes fixing it.
  15. Haya jii san

    Libs are a complete joke nowadays. G2A means nothing when the Lib will evaporate the g2a as soon as it lays its eyes on it. Buffing it on top of that? Twigby messed this one up badly.