can anyone explain the current lib hate to me?

The only thing I want to see changed in Libs is that the sound design is enhanced so that there engine noise is prioritised. Infantry should also be able to hear them from further away from current. That goes for all vehicles.

I would also expect all vehicle noise affect visibility on (infantry) radar) but thats never going to happen.

I don't know about the only thing, but I definitely think the sounds should be increased. I can hear a reaver circling overhead even if he's running stealth and not showing up on minimap. I think all the aircraft should be the same. I also believe stealth should negate this sound (If you are investing in a counter, and giving up quite a bit for it, it should be a good benefit)

Your counter is as pathetic as your statement.

A single Skyguard "Hurts" Them.

Two Syguards are lethal.

Three Skguards is plain overkill.

This is shown through in-game experience, and can be calculated through Skyguard DPS.

still irrelevant. Also, not exactly true.

1 SG: SG dies, lib laughs and continues farming.
2 SGs: 1 SG still dies, lib may die or may fly away. On the second pass, see previous.
3 SGs: Lib flies away to other farming fields, 3 SGs now have nothing to do.

14 days played in a Lib I would take that side of the argument too

This. I am fine with Libs being tanks of the sky. I am even fine with damage output. They should put the fear of god into us ground pounders. Watching them flip around all but the best ESF pilots is ridiculous. IMO make em less agile.

Skyguard are OP ? Sure they are.
People pulled skyguard every time they can ? No they don't.
This vehicule is too much effective against air but is completely useless at other role than AA.

Make skyguard more versatile (nerf their effectiveness against air if needed) so more people will spawn skyguard and air will be counter easier.
Or easier : if lightning are able to change their loadout like infantery/MAX do it, we will see far more skyguard.

@Tar :

Wrong, it should be : 3 SGs : err #404, skyguard are so rare, so see 3 of them never appends.

Something which did not occur to me until last night (Prowler trying to snipe Libs at range from just behind an outcropping... great position until a Sunderer came running across the area to me, trailing a lib...), there is one change which could bring balance to the forc....err.. balance to Liberators.
Give ESFs 50 more meters of flight ceiling. As it stands, a Liberator can position itself such that most armor is a clear target which cannot shoot back, and infantry are just little clear targets if they dare to scurry out of a building and try to shoot dumbfires. Allow ESFs (the 'counter' to Liberators) to move into a similar position. However, even then the Lib is not defenseless if they are situationally aware and have that all important 3/3 tailgun manned (you know... no single player vehicle should be able to kill a 3/3 vehicle?), and if they are not aware then obviously they are an easy target and should L2P (Yes, that was sarcasm). The fun part is that increasing the ESF ceiling has absolutely no effect on any other part of gameplay.

The Liberator has been repeatedly identified as being OP since the release of the game. The Liberator was never a niche vehicle as you suggest - it dominated the early game and with changes to the Shredder and now resistances against AP and Decimator rounds, the Liberator is extremely tough to take down.

An MLG Pro ESF can absolutely take down a Liberator. But at least on Waterson, a good Liberator is damn near impossible to take down if you're anything but the best. Add Fire Suppression into the mix, you're lucky to do enough damage before you catch a Dalton to the face or get Shreddered. Conversely, a bad Liberator is of only moderate concern and can be dispatched with moderate ease.

Just like the Harasser's only hard counter was another Harasser (pre nerf) the only viable hard counter to a Liberator is a Liberator. This is clearly broken. If a Liberator can destroy a MBT in literally 2-3 seconds, why not have an ESF be able to do the same to a Liberator? Sound like a terrible idea? I agree. It isn't fun as it makes defending yourself virtually impossible.

How to fix it:
Increase the TTK of Liberators on MBTs, while decreasing the TTK of ESFs on Liberators. Further, increase the damage of AP rounds against Liberators to deter Liberators from trading AP rounds and Tank Busters face to face and winning. Match this with a PS1 feature of restricting vehicle weapons usage while flying level (no more flying upside-down and daltoning) and you've fixed the Liberator.

i have to comment on that, even if i already have the answer to my question (you guys can stop now ). one year ago, the lib was indeed rarely used. i had heard stories about zepher libs farming like crazy, but at that point that wasn't the case anymore (and no one was using the zepher). the esrls had just come out and it was literally impossible to use a lib anywhere near tr territory, which made me create a tr character for the sole purpose of flying a lib.
the most obvious thing however was that no one had any experience with gunning (or libs in general) whatsoever. of the hundreds of people that i flew around (i was rather persistent), only a handful had the ability to aquire a target from the gunners seat. the majority ejected the first time i tilted my aircraft to the side.
so whenever you found that special someone who could successfully engage enemies from a lib, you would end up in this perpetual dedicated driver/gunner mess that i absolutely hate (which is the reason why i stopped using libs altogether).

Blasphemy. BLASPHEMY! The most expensive and strictest requirements vehicle has to be an easy kill to a less restrictive one because it's the "hard counter"!!

But in all seriousness, making skyguards more useful (eg: being able to carry a coaxial weapon or able to change equipment) would help alleviate the problem and make them more desirable. Most people tend to forget that despite the skyguard being "OP" against air, any yahoo with a rocket launcher can destroy a skyguard or at least scare it off. And in terms of threats, you're way more likely to run into one of those compared to air (which can simply bug out if the fight gets too intense).

it has high survivability AND damage it can not have both effectively. and the tank-buster is annoying as hell. just give it a little less damage over all and strip a layer of amour making a skygaurd capable of having the same ttk the lib has on it with the dalton or shredder. you do that (even though lib farmers will be mad) i think the vast majority of players will be happy. And it will give the liberator some direct counters, (skyward that gets the drop on it AP tank"s", or a burster max group/ aa turret group.)

I hate libs just as much as the next guy but the only reason why libs are so much more prominent then they were before is because they nerfed the Dalton. It's pretty much the reason why Gals are also as prevalent as they are, Zepher was nerfed against them.

The biggest problem right now is that Libs are a dime a dozen. You used to see a couple cruising around when the arguments surrounded the ESFs, but now there are ton up in the sky. Like all vehicles, the problem comes with scaling. Right now they are OP more because of the sheer #s in the sky rather than their design.

That being said, I think the biggest problem with the Lib is its ability to sneak up on targets. People have mention sound and what not to give hints a Lib is near. I think the Lib should pop up on radar at 300 meters (unless running stealth). That way people with strong awareness can do what is necessary to protect themselves. I equate the problem to hearing ESFs when piloting a Lib... by the time the sound of the ESF's engines becomes audible, we're already under fire. With the burst capabilities of the Lib, it's rough not knowing a Lib is in the area until the TB is tearing you to pieces.

Yes, the TB is brutal, but the amount of danger the Lib has to put itself in to use it is a trade off. Again, 1/2 the problem with the TB is that most people never see it coming. Give people a way to have a heads up a Lib is on them and the TB might feel more balanced. At that point, if you get it from behind, it was a lack of situational awareness.

Yes, comp armor is too much.
Fire Suppression is too much (but probably only in tandem with Comp Armor). Take Comp armor away, it's probably okay.
Yes, the Shredder is too good at everything It needs less effectiveness against Armor (Dalton's role) and Infantry (Zepher's role) but able to engage all targets with a respectable effectiveness. It needs to return to a Jack of All Trades, Master of None weapon. Right now, it hangs with both guns at an equal level.
AA Phalanx resistance is right where it should be.

Nailed that on the head. Even 1 ESF engaging a Lib will force a Lib away from his ground pounding spree.

Its been consistent over a year. He who controls the air controls the fight. Period.

They don't like it because it takes teamwork and organization to take down decent lib crews.

SO wrong.
It's the completely opposite way around. Libs are OP, and that's why everyone pulls them. This of course amplifies the problem, but it isn't the problem.

Once my lib gets nerfed I'm only going to camp and ruin all 1-12 fights. ALL OF THEM.

This. Planetside is a squad/platoon game. If you want to lone wolf or run with some people completely unorganized that's your business. Don't cry about being easily wiped out of a hex because someones tactics are better. A lot of the time in this game it's sheer population in which it doesn't matter if there are libs or tanks or maxes, if you're out popped 60/40 and unorganized you lose.

Oh and situational awareness, I play in tanks some too. After I take a shot or disengage I always check around me, for both infantry and liberators/esfs, if I'm in a mag its the gunners job to be aware of our 6. If I see a lib coming I either take cover or shoot and then take cover. It is not that easy to hit a tank once they get up to speed.

Look at it this way. Two teams are fighting each other. They both have tanks and infantry and relatively even numbers. So far so good.

Well one team adds air to the equation. Guess what, that team now has air superiority because their enemies have nothing in the air. Let's make it easier to understand.

Air + Armor + Infantry > Armor + Infantry

Unless the enemy pulls some AA which usually happens anyway so I don't see the issue.