C4

But it does come with its risk, if you miss the target you're dead because hes got his primary out and hes going to down you in less than half a second with just body shots, no need to headshot you. If they hear your jetpack they know you're coming, if you get spotted by his ally they know to avoid you or you might get killed in 0.5 seconds also meanwhile unable to fire, because you're guns stashed away. If you have motion trackers down or sensor darts etc, he still has to know you're there in the first place and he probably would have gotten the jump on you with any other gun. I would even go so far as to say it's harder to lob a C4 in the right place than it is to point your reticule at someone for half a second. If you don't look at the sky from time to time you'll get shot by a plane too.

I used to have all the same problems as people who died from these things, this has been one of the first ever FPS games I've gotten into and I started off with like 0.3 KDA, lately I've been scoring averagely between 1~2 and often scores through the roof if I'm medic because I might revive 3 people as well in every life, but my dislikes are things like tanks that you can't even touch and you can only run from, atleast the C4 could be outplayed, outmaneuvered. You learn ways around it, throwing EMP grenades into rooms will disable all mines, running an implant can help show all the mines, just being aware of who you're facing and then realising that the light assault if caught out in a gun fight has the downright disadvantage, if you start to realise these things you'll start having more fun with the game.

The most likely scenario where LA will use the jetpack to drop C4 is in or around a lattice base, either in a group of people or on a vehicle with minimal risk of being detected because people are usually focused on the fight on the ground.
If someone where to tell me they can hear the jetpack from LA in such a fight with weapons firing on all sides or when sitting in a vehicle with its guns firing then I would say they are making things up.
And in a fight like that most people are focused on their target, making it easy for LA to just fly over undetected and drop the C4 on you.
For people to look up once in a while in such a fight to see if there might be LA trying to drop C4 on them is likely to get them killed as the enemy would take advantage of that moment when they are looking elsewhere to shoot them.

As for it being hard to throw a C4 pack in the right place, I will only say that you should not be able to do so at all and being able to do it at all is ludicrous at best..
The purpose of C4 is as a demolitions explosive, in other words to take down hard targets such as buildings and vehicles not as a grenade to clear out a room in a building, thats what all the other types of grenades you refer to are intended to help with.
However if you want to use the C4 as a grenade since it possible, then you also have to accept the drawbacks that comes with it.

As for vehicles, if all you can do is run from then then I would suggest you try change your tactics against them.
Here the C4 would come into play with its intended purpose, to blow up the tank and since a medic can carry C4 you can do this as a medic as well.
Sneak up from behind or wherever is best, place C4 charges on it and blow it up as you run away.
I never used C4 myself, however I'm still able to take down tanks as infantry quite effectively by using either the Archer, anti vehicle mines or both.
I just sneak up close to them, drop some mines and find some cover close by that would make them have to run over the mines.
I then fire a couple shots at them, run behind cover to get them to come after me and is most cases they do come after me, run over the mines and blow up.

C4 is not a grenade and should not be used as a grenade, its not realistic, thats why we have grenades.
In most cases infantry is not supposed to be able to counter vehicles, its not realistic, you use other vehicles(air and/or ground) primarily and infantry as backup and support.
Yes I know this is a game and is not supposed to be real or realistic and I'm not saying it should be either, however a game like this needs have a modicum of realism in it to actually make sense and be fun.

People defend it cause maxes are the lamest thing in the game?

Higby was reportedly told by many devs that max units were not balanced but he pushed them live anyway.

Anything that kills max units and tanks is a blessed thing that should only receive buffs imo.

But the C4 is not a grenade, as it is necessary to get close and if you are not shot on the way to the armored vehicles or max, throw a brick and blow it up.
Each approach should have advantages and disadvantages. The advantage of C4 is that you can quickly undermine the target with a lot of health. The disadvantage of C4 is its extremely difficult way of delivery.

There is little difference between the chemical makeup of the Comp B in an M67 frag and the Comp C in an M112 block.

If infantry in this game had even half of the organic capability modern infantry enjoys against vehicles and aircraft there would be enough tears from vehicle mains to turn Indar into Hossin.

This game already has a modicum of realism in that in general aside from specific circumstances:
infantry < vehicles, aircraft. In a game with almost no C4I and effective ranges they would have laughed at in 1933, that is enough.

Could one of the C4 haters please offer some rebuttal to the fact that C4 can't be thrown across a room; that it can only be tossed within about 2 meters. It's a point blank weapon. I'd say it's like a knife but there's a knife that can be thrown repeatedly with perfect precision and I can't even guess at an upper limit on its range. It's not some uber weapon if I have to be within 6 feet of you to drop it. C4 has a max/min blast radius of 2.5/5 meters whereas a sticky grenade has a 2.5/7m blast and THE SAME 1250dmg as C4 and you can't run away from it if it's stuck to you. C4 is a point blank shame kill. If they're tossing C4 through a doorway then you are the one positioning yourself to take it; you're 'assuming the position' like a well trained *cough*. If it's coming from high above, you're not looking around the whole time they made their approach, you're not moving in the time it takes for the C4 to free fall STRAIGHT DOWN on your head. I'm certain it's the slowest projectile in the game, explosive or otherwise. It's the most gimped weapon to deploy with a deployment range that's probably only slightly better than the max punch. If you're getting killed regularly with C4 then it's because you're terrible; you have no tactical thinking, no common sense, no awareness because your killer is basically within knifing range when he lays it at your feet.

Imagine a knife one shoting or 2 shotting a max, his engi, his medic, and a light assault all in 1 second worth of time, on the fastest on foot (well ambushers) class in the game. Also imagine c4 having the same fuse timer as a grenade... I'm neither for it or against it (though are obnoxious, but so are other spammers) just see a bit of flaws with those arguements. I think it's in a ok spot now.

If that's really what you think, then you don't have as firm as grasp to the extents at which you can stretch this game's statistical limits as you think you do. It is entirely possible to toss C-4 expectedly far, still landing at a similar height to from where it was released. A lot that is just enough skew from what is considered "normal behavior" can be made possible. All that you need to do is recognize those brief windows were you can catch the physics system with its pants down (and a pox on you if you actually seek those moments out for exploitation). Need I remind you of being fully capable of scaling vertical surfaces by rapidly jumping?

I never said throwing a c4 brick was hard, I just said it was no more difficult than to kill them with a regular gun in the given time space where you point and click, it is more awareness and reactionary speed if anything. It even has it's downsides, it's throwable range is much less far than a regular grenade, if the grenade is tricky because it rolls for some players then maybe they should try sticky grenades, or practice using revive grenade with bandoolier. I honestly don't really care that much that they slapped the 0.5 second delay on the C4, it has never made too much difference for me as to whether to run the c4 brick or the med kit and the med kit is a lot cheaper and I only invested in 1 brick on both light assault and medic, so I'll probably swap to med kits on light assault so this is where medic becomes weaker because its dumb to have heals on a medic unless you're running the other ability and I see that as being inferior to the standard health regen aura.

I also think the light assault is probably the weakest or least impactful but most fun class of them all. The hardest part is getting on that roof undetected, or maybe not but to also get there quickly so you're actually influencing the battle, which lots of snipers and flankers often forget that their impact on the battle can be minimal unless they're actually doing it for the right situation, but I see long range snipers go 2-0 sitting on a rock for half an hour, I see light assaults run around the whole base to get on a rooftop undetected, in the same time when heavies, medics and maxes are trading for each other and gaining/losing ground, focusing objectives etc etc. The light assault doesn't have the shields in the 1 on 1 frontal engagements and he'll probably encounter a few. Other classes have very useful tools like revive grenades or recon darts, whereas it's only way to win a battle is to outmaneuver and jetpack and carbines are not excactly the best rifles for long range engagement so sitting on roofs won't make players great and when you're jetpacking your COF is reduced so a player on the ground should be able to outburst you if they are good. Go play the light assault and see if you still think the same about it, its ability to damage vehicals and the occasional kill spree make it fun enough every once in a while.

I never said that C4 was a grenade, I only said that its possible to use it as such and is treated as if it was.
That you can quickly undermine a target with a lot of health I have never denied that, in fact I specifically talked about how it should be used to take out tanks and player built bases.
As for it being difficult to deliver, you have to explain that one to me because thats not the impression I'm left with when I see how its used.
LA in particular have an easy time as they can just fly over a group of enemies, drop the C4 and detonate, and have a good chance of catching the enemy unaware.

I know my post was a bit long, but may I suggest you read it before you reply to it with arguments that I have already covered in my post?

Where's the outrage over the sticky grenade with the same damage, larger blast radius, can be thrown higher and farther, can't be run from if it lands on you, and goes off even if you kill the person who threw it the instant after it leaves their hand?

Right, the sticky grenade does all that from a greater range with a wider damage radius and you don't even have to get within knifing distance to use it.

So your complaint is that as someone who gets killed with C4, you believe that others exploint the game to get an edge on you? Or are you just confusing momentum with an exploit? Because I don't know what you're talking about. I use the Catlike implant to jump over walls or climb nearby boxes, or use a jetpack. Your arguments here are vague and irrelevant. And you ignored the fact that there are explosives that are easier to use, have a larger blast radius, and do the same amount of damage.

Why is C4 the whipping boy?

Oddly enough I don't see stickies being spammed, always and only c4. Maybe there is a reason? You seem to want to justify c4 by pointing the finger at grenades, but yet NO ONE spams those when they have to deal with a max and or tank/sundy... there are reasons. Why?

I for one was shamelessly abusing the C4.

Taking out sundies as a frickin' medic. A medic! ...I can still do that.
Taking out MBTs with an Ambusher. Nothing they can do about it. ....I can still do that.

Where I really abused was ... infantry fights.

Why throw a grenade to breach? Everyone sees it coming with a blinky red dot. All it does is deny an area. It never kills. Just toss a C4 in the door and click boom. Kills. Every. Time.

Playing peekaboo on some corner with an enemy? You know it comes down to who can rat-a-tat that face for the headshot kills right? Wrong.... c4 baby, boom. I win!!! I don't need to be the better player. Just more clever at taking advantage of the game.

The ultimate? Tossing the C4 over the crates to the guy you know is hiding on the other side. He literally cannot avoid this. Cannot shoot back, cannot react.

Oh it was so fun.

**I AM THE REASON C4 GOT NERFED**

..and yes. I'm glad it got nerfed. Pure cheese, all of it.

My complaint was you're naive to think that something on paper or even in practice means that's the hard limit of what you can do with it. And that's what I said. It sounds like you took my argument and conflated it being something specifically against C-4. I used C-4 throwing because that's what we're talking about and you didn't seem to act like momentum-based tossing was a valid thing, more like some kind of urban legend or a thing that people who conflate with an exploit.

On that note, however, I'm actually uncertain. On one hand, you claim that that it's a point blank weapon (knife range). On the other hand, you also know that you can throw it quite a distance by using momentum. It comes across as rather "have cake and eat it too" without further context to the point.

It's worth pointing out that sticky grenades don't have extremely generous damage modifiers against all target categories while still having one shot base damage. (Being directly attached notwithstanding.)

Well I get that I didn't quite address every point in your previous comment, and noteably I don't think you understand what I quite ment by all you can do when seeing the vehical is to run... Well so small arms do nothing against tanks, I run revive/EMP grenades primarily as I tend to main infiltrator and medic. So when I see a tank 90% of the time, I don't have a single gun that is capable of dealing damage to it, nor are my grenades effective. So when I do light assault or heavy, its because an annoying tank is simply being annoying and nobody has the means to deal with it. I've found ways to deal with them in other vehicals, but I think infantry should have methods that don't feel utterly inferior to dealing with them.

A good tank won't be sitting in a place where you can just fly over a wall to C4 it, on some maps this is easier said than done because sometimes the map doesn't really allow tanks to be useful, but in some maps the tanks are able to shoot inside rooms, more than half of the infantry won't be heavy/light assault, virtually nobody picks engineer (and this is why sticky grenades rarely get used also even though being quite powerful). Only some infantry can even fire at the tank which is quite capable of 1-2 hit killing infantry. As a light assault it would take you like 2 c4 bricks + 1-2 barrages of your AV tool just to take down the tank, but most of the time if you try to fly at the tank you just recieve one direct shot and are dead, if you don't get close enough to it. Then if you don't kill it, they just respond by getting out and healing their vehical. If they see their tank has taken quite a few hits they can also just get out of the vehical and kill you with their carbine in 0.5 seconds while you have an anti vehical weapon out. So is it really viable of an approach? no not really.

That's probably the saddest part of the reality. By estimates about 40% of players - Heavy Assaults and Light Assaults primarily - should have a weapon capable of or dedicated to armor damage at their sides before the C-4 is even a factor and yet the tank will often live longer and freer because it is under-assailed.

At least viable enough that you get threads dedicated to the topic on a regular basis.

1. It is VEHICLE not VEHICAL. Great start.
2. If you are a medic or infil you should not be fighting vehicles in the first place, that's the point. One class can clock and snipe from extreme ranges, the other can revive an unlimited amount of times through any injury or weapon, no matter how ridiculous (if you get shot by 3 HE shells, you should be water vapor, not get up in the next second perfectly fine).
3. Yea, no good tank will sit right where you will C4 him, thanks captain obvious, wanna stand outside so I can snipe you? Or maybe you want to walk over that mine so it can explode on you yea? The main reason for this, is that if they do slip up, they lose a tank, 9 minutes worth of resources and all the time they spent driving, manuevering around the location in question, not to mention losing a tank could mean the enemy getting a foothold in which the fight simply ends because they reach the sundi. There is no reason for a tank to put themselves in danger when they can be far more effective at range, unless shells have a damage dropoff now.
4. No, if you actually bothered with trying this, you'd know that all tanks MBTs as well, die to 2 C4 unless they are using flanker armor in which case, it takes almost exactly 2 C4. However most if not 97% of tankers use other defense slots because better tankers will do their damnest to avoid it.

5. It seems like with your entire argument you're trying to sidestep that heavies and lights do not attack tanks with their rocket and rocklet launchers or that there are often not enough to attack them, this is completely untrue as heavy is the most played class out of all classes and while most morons don't even try to focus down tanks you will find that most experienced heavies WILL plink tanks down and force them to retreat, the more experienced heavies use flak armor to completely negate the 1 shot shell from range and then heal up a second later to full.

Charging in the exact line of sight of a tank with C4 is stupid, as is charging out in an open field with snipers and heavies, so is charging at a max (or at least it should be but whoopity do, C4 with ambushers can often win that) however, a tank, hell, ANYONE cannot expect to be looking in all directions at once, in this game, infantry losing because they were flanked by a light assault and that's perfectly fine, a light assault dropping down from a tree or from a random valk hundreds of feet above and out of anyones line of sight and blowing up a squad of tanks, no that's not cool. At least with this nerf it isn't instant and there are counters to it, barely effective ones but counters.

It is Cloak, not clock, try not to attack peoples spelling.

1am at the time of posting, I make one spelling mistake, he uses vehical throughout his entire post ABOUT vehicles.
Sue me.