1. Sprant Flere-Imsaho

    Question for the C4 haters. Did the big flourishing hand movement before detonation fix all you problems? Because it's one more concession to the skilless nerf-it-so-I-feel-better crowd that keeps me on the lookout for a new game. Every faction had the exact same C4, no differences at all, yet it must be made weaker, slower, ever more impotent. Just like anything beneficial should be bolstered; more armor, bigger regen fields, faster repair.
    • Up x 1
  2. Xebov

    Short Answer: Yes
    Long Answer: The reason this change was made is mostly light units with ambush jetpacks using it as some sort of short fused grenade. C4 is mainly a counter to vehicles and maxes not against infantry. Unlike grenades there is no warning marker and you have practically no reaction time to prevent the damage. Speaking of skilless i might add that i didnt have the feeling that ambush in and throw it in a suicide run required alot of skill to do. The timer simply gives infantry a moment longer to react. On a sidenote, if i where the dev in charge i would have throught about reducing the damage against non max infantry by 50-66% to force C4 to its intended usage.
    • Up x 6
  3. LaughingDead

    Considering that most of the time C4 killed me I was infantry and it was because some doofus jetting inbetween all my allies so I couldn't shoot him and then him pushing the detonator .2 seconds from putting it down so even if I did have line of sight I'd have to pray that my weapon had a good enough TTK on him and I didn't miss any shots and that from the other end of the engagement I found this tactic far too easy to use even before it was buffed I had already auraxed it and that was when I rarely used it...

    Yes, I think the nerf was good.
    But if you don't think so, then you must also think that nerfing thermals, lib belly guns, max charge, valk cas, furies, all pitching angles to AI guns, bulldogs on galaxies, pelters on galaxies, and walkers getting nerfs was also unfair for the same reason right? Every faction had the same NS weapons, no need to make it weaker, slower, more impotent and so on.

    Personally, I didn't see a reason to nerf any of the above, except C4 in which it was simply a better grenade. I don't like things you can't interact with or it feels bad to try and counter. Being prepared at all angles for any light assault that wants to ambush into a room and drop explosives on you that require 100% of your attention doesn't feel like a good infantry experience. I can play around or kill vehicles with other vehicles, I can't just magically counter and blow up C4 as soon as it leaves the bastards hands.
    • Up x 2
  4. Eternaloptimist

    Make it a shaped charge that directs all its force through whatever it is stuck on - a vehicle, a PMB construct, a Max...........or the ground?
    • Up x 4
  5. Pelojian

    it won't happen for two reasons:

    1)the devs are pro infantry, air and con ground vehicles.

    2)all the terribad C4 fairies will scream to high heavens that they can't score kills anymore on vehicles because they miss dropping both brick on the hull of the enemy vehicle.
    • Up x 4
  6. Liewec123

    Hell no.
    The "wonder-grenade" that can be hurled across a room to oneshot all maxes within a 10m radius needs a hell of a lot more than a 0.5 second trigger time.

    My issue with c4 has always been it's ability to oneshot a 450 nanite unit from across a room.
    A 0.5 sec trigger time fixes nothing for maxes, they're the slowest unit in the game,
    a c4 hurled around a corner is still insta-death because you won't make it out of the colossal oneshot radius,
    a max will barely move an inch in 0.5 secs.

    The c4 change that I want, that needs to happen, is actually a max change and I've suggested it repeatedly.
    Remove the c4 resistance from Ordnance Armour and make it baseline, simple.
    The slowest and most expensive unit in the game is no longer oneshot by 4/5 classes,
    And maxes will finally have a choice for their suit slot, rather than 100% mandatory Ordnance Armour.

    I hope this wasn't considered side tracking since I talked so much about max, but really the effectiveness of c4 against max is the sole reason that I loathe c4 so much, I actually don't like the idea of a 0.5 arming time, it's an unnecessary nerf to its av potential and doesn't fix what I consider to be the issue, effectiveness against max.
    • Up x 4
  7. Lee Weldon

    I still think its terribly ineffective against tanks, decent on an uncerted sunderer but thats about it. It was definitely only good for its ability to kill infantry and I think most of the people who died to it must of had terrible awareness or terrible aim because I found the TTK of most primaries sufficient to kill the C4 fairy before they ever got to detinate and I don't see why C4 was ever any more toxic than proximity mines, I mean C4 was still somewhat dodgeable if you could see it coming. I actually liked that you could blow up people who just sat in doorways, because people who camp doorways with CQC are kinda broken. I hope EMP grenades and other things that open up buildings don't see nerfs otherwise I would not know what else to try in that instance.
  8. HippoCryties

    Agree with some of the points but IMO MAXES are too powerful. I primarily play HA and even with a Decimator shot to the face and tons of Betelgeuse rounds a MAX still has enough time to kill you. Don’t blame you for hating C4 TBH cos I hate it as well when I’m in a MAX although that’s very rare for me to do. It’s the only real counter for MAXEs excluding 2 shots from Decimator which is very very slow because of reload speeds. This update has balanced it a bit but still.. C4 was made to get rid of vehicles and MAXES
  9. Liewec123

    well an AV nade and deci shot is instant death, or as you already said 2 shots from a decimator (you can duck behind cover for the reload) from 15m+ you have more chance of killing the max with 2 deci shots from cover than the max has of killing you.
    this update has nerfed c4 against vehicles where it really didn't need a nerf.
    • Up x 1
  10. Demigan

    Yeah! They are definitely pro infantry! Thats why we still need walls to segregate vehicles from infantry to prevent vehicles from stomping infantry into the ground! Oh wait...

    This moronic pussyfooting about "oh noes infantry" should stop. The CAI update for example made HE a much better choice, meaning vehicles have an easier time dealing with them. But narrow-minded people who only want easy kills because they used a damn terminal will ***** about anything even remotely against vehicles.

    Stop, just stop. Vehicles are still powerhouses as long as infantry requires the segregation to protect them. Also keep in mind that even a vehicle player like Chingles spends more time as infantry than in a vehicle. Screwing over the lionshare of your players because someone found the skill to walk up to a terminal is bad design.
    • Up x 2
  11. HippoCryties

    True, don’t wanna sound like one of those poeple that say one faction is stronger than another but NC MAXES thrive indoors where most fights happen, I just think that indoors 6 seconds of downtime with my Decimator is easily enough time for the NC MAXEs to shotgun me in the face, don’t get me wrong it’s much easier at longer ranges. I usually run Concussion nades btw instead of AV, maybe I should look into them, I stopped using them after I auraxed em
  12. Liewec123

    stick to conc! you don't need them for easy max takedowns,
    hit the max with a deci round, hide around a corner for the reload, peak out and hit them again :)
  13. Corezer

    .5 seconds isn't enough time to see it and run away like a frag... nor should it be nerfed that hard.
    It's enough time for u to pull the trigger and scat all over my chest, you big, kinky, blue boy <3

    does it give you enough time to, after they've closed distance and thrown it, kill them with dual mercys and all leg shots? realistically, no, but then again you can try sprinkling some skill on your game... Then I might put some respek on your name.
  14. Liewec123

    c4 hurled by someone behind cover, you're 15m away from them and they're in cover and the instakill-grenade is 5m away from you, your only options as a max within 0.5 seconds are die or die.
    you'll see here i wasn't even close to the doorway yet, regardless a medic hurled their wonder-grenade, 10m through the doorway before ducking back behind cover, being 5m away from the wondergrenade my 450nanite unit instantly imploded...
    a 15m oneshot with zero counterplay.

    i honestly don't understand why people are defending the ability for 4/5 classes to hurl a magical instakill grenade across the room and oneshot the most expensive unit in the game...
    NOTHING should oneshot a 450 nanite unit, i'm fine with AV nades, archers, decimators, all of the other skilless, 2-3 shot cheesy counters to max, but nothing should outright oneshot a max, let-alone something that 4/5 classes can hurl across the room...
    • Up x 3
  15. fuzzbuzzputty

    Every sweaty, try hard, lamer was abusing the hell out of C4. It was so cringy and pathetic.
    Why bother aiming when you can throw C4 in the general direction of the enemy and get easy kills?
    It’s bloody obvious why it got nerfed. Was barely even a nerf. I still see plenty of suicide fairies.
    • Up x 2
  16. SmittyJensen

    I think they just took the easy out on this one.

    Because the deeper resolution would have been to keep the timer the way it was, introduce proper flak armor for infantry, and introduce proper anti explosives armor/shielding for vehicles.

    That way if you chose not to protect yourself, you take the risk.

    It was easier to just take a 0.0 or whatever the value was to 0.5 and voila.

    But what this does, the way it was implemented, is mitigate one of the few options infantry had to fight a zerg or overwhelming odds (think max crash or squad camping your spawn point). Plus it now punishes the experienced lone wolves that would actually play objectives and go after enemy sunderers. (when everyone else has cert icons in their eyes and is chanting 'farm').
    • Up x 2
  17. Prudentia

  18. Sprant Flere-Imsaho

    I 100% agree. But what you'll see is people who claim this forces them to upgrade/use flak armor, just like people who claim they're forced to use nanoweave because they can be killed with 5 bullets.

    I get killed with C4 maybe once or twice a week as infantry. I just never see it happening. I only break it out on maxes or people who are dumb enough to cover a doorway by standing in it or just around the corner from it. People want nerfs to compensate for their poor/non-existent tactics.
    • Up x 1
  19. Lee Weldon

    And it is a downright choice decision to be running C4 over health kits anyway. I could say the same for the usefulness of a health kit, there are maybe 3-5 fights a week where it is the key decider for the fight, sometimes because they zip behind an obstacle and up to full health again or sometimes because they come out wounded from a previous fight and are fighting you from 100% instead of 60%. Not to mention the obvious the other obvious reasons people don't run two bricks of c4 like how it costs on each class to unlock it, 700 certs by 3 classes. People could only pick this loadout when you saw a max, on some classes like medic, so the only real difference you'll probably see now is a few less people going medic so they can hold a decimator. But decimator users get punished when holding it and anyone with a useful anti-infantry gun pops around the corner and this wouldn't be an issue maybe if you're used to fighting on the overpop faction, but as someone who prefers to hop into 40/60 fights you can almost bank on infantry to be pushing in and getting around corners while you spend 7-10 seconds trying to land 2 deci shots.
  20. Demigan

    Ah yes, having a passive "I can't immediately be killed now" ability is such a deeper resolution than having people throwing C4 play more tactically to survive until the trigger is detonated and giving more time for infantry to react and protect themselves.

    Now 0,5 seconds isn't a lot of time to do all that in, but it's a deeper resolution than a passive "can't touch this" ability. A perhaps deeper solution would have been another auto-granted ability for all infantry, for example triggered by holding "E", which prevents nearby explosives from going off until it stops working (lasts 2 sec for example and then recharges in 10). This would allow players to bypass mines and get enough time to avoid C4, but it requires you to do something for it rather than "I picked the right thing at the terminal and don't have to worry much about it until I pick something else".

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