[Suggestion] C-4 tweak.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Drsexxytime, Dec 10, 2017.

  1. Drsexxytime

    To address the Skill-4 in this game now especially annoying due to LA changes, change C-4 to a shaped charge. This means it would have to land on something to do significant damage, like a Max or vehicle, damaging just that object. Or if worse case, very very minor blast radius damage. Right now you have the "Skill Fairies" using it to just suicide clear rooms of infantry, which is a big complaint. Grenades are one things, C-4 and it's damage/radius on a super mobile class is another.
    • Up x 3
  2. LordKrelas

    You know, as long as it works against the damn vehicle, I can't complain much.
    As then at least it still works.
  3. Demigan

    Funny, even at launch, when the c4 blast was about twice as large? You didnt have people clearing entire rooms with them.

    Also consider that frag grenades have a better OHK AOE range and you can better blanket a room with them with much better safety AND STILL NOT CLEAR A ROOM... We know that all this "c4 clears rooms" bullcrap is just that, bullcrap.

    Anyone care to show me a few video's of someone "clearing" a room with c4? And we are talking about populated rooms, not killing a single guy or killing one dude as the rest of his buddies was leaving and calling it "cleared".
  4. Dealman

    I agree that C4 is far too easy to use, especially considering how effective it is against all targets.

    I think that C4 could remain a viable gadget for clearing rooms, but I think that damage should be decreased and radius increased. Thus, it will remain intimidating and capable of injuring a lot of people allowing for far better odds when assaulting the room. Throw enough of them for instant kill, instead of one C4 being like 99% guaranteed kill.

    For vehicles I'd like to see another similar throwable, like you said - a shaped charge that is more effective against vehicles. Maybe make it so one of those placed on the rear of a MBT is a guaranteed kill - but have it timed.

    This would give the crew a risk/reward opportunity. Dismount and try to de-activate it using the repair tool.

    Risk exposing yourself and potentially get killed - or save the vehicle from certain death. Risk retreating to do the same - same reward.

    For LA this would be skill based in terms of throwing it at a good spot - making it tricky to de-activate.

    C&C Renegade had a timed C4 like this and it was a lot of fun not only throwing it and trying to prevent disarming or simply watch it go boom. But it was also fun and intense trying to disarm it.

    Either way C4 atm has no real risks yet some of the highest rewards in the game.

    • Allow for specialzed LA roles, instead of them being a squishy anti-everything(except air I guess)
    • C4 effective against crowded areas, large radius medium/high damage - no guranteed kill unless many boomies (would be great for initiating an assault on crowded areas)
    • Medics actually get to do some healing instead of 90% of the time reviving
    • Risk/reward gameplay for both LA and vehicle crew (tricky placement for LA, disarming for crew)
    • Less frustrating vehicular gameplay as no more suicide bomber-esque gameplay with LA
    • No more one-man superhero capable of turning an entire battle around
  5. Halkesh

    Same thing as LordKelras : as long as it work against vehicles, it's ok for me.
    At least now it's less effective against MAXes (since you can miss them).


    At launch C4 costed 100 resources which ~6 time more expensive than 75nanites. People that tried to kill infantry with them were rare since you usually keep your C4 stock for vehicles. Default rocket launcher was free and worked well enough with it's 1000@0.5m - 1@5m splash samage plus guaranteed OHK on direct hit.

    Today, considering the current C4's splash, you can't clear an entire room (even alpha frag grenade couldn't), but it can still clear a large number of people stacked near a door, with the only skill needed being knowing where your RMB and LMB are).
    In short, C4 is a tool that is excessively effective against infantry since it's supposed to be specialized at killing vehicles. Due to the fact you're already dead when you see a C4 coming at you, it also make it more effective against infantry than a frag grenade.
  6. Dealman


    It's a little too effective against vehicles considering the risk and cost. All the LA really risk is dying, which doesn't really cost anything. Respawn, try again. Eventually you'll reach the target and it's a guaranteed kill.

    It requires pretty much no skill, just pick a target and go for it.
  7. Halkesh

    I've edited my first post.

    About C4 against vehicles, it has been discussed a lot : it work only when the vehicle is unaware of the LA or if the driver is dumb/crazy. If you've been spotted once, the crew will be aware of your presence and will start to being more cautious to flying fairy. The only time C4 is a guaranteed kill is when you place it on a cloaked flash and deliver it to your target, but it require 2 peoples.
    Against infantry at a corner, it's a guaranteed multi-kill with nearly no-chances of being harmed yourself (compared of trying to kill them with your primary).
    Against MAXes, it's a guaranteed hit and it make the whole class nearly useless because of their incredibly weakness to C4.
  8. FateJH

    C-4 also had a very high failure rate back then and it frequently either didn't detonate or detonated but did nothing.
    Or if they're using Ambusher jets, at this point.
  9. Halkesh

    To have a build with ambusher + C4 + flak armor on my LA I can assure that the 2nd C4 is usually wasted on the ground if the crew see you, even vanguard can react in time.
  10. FateJH

    You're still attempting to drop two in one jump as often as before?
  11. Demigan

    Renegade! Super awesome game that was. I'm still waiting for a game that has even half the tactical depth (but better balance).

    Despite my posts against the c4 complaints, I do agree it needs changing. I dont think a timed c4 like Renegade would work unless you added an audible countdown (perhaps a cascading beeping). In Renegade it was hard to be completely stealth when placing timed c4 so it allowed the vehicle user to react most of the time. If a c4 fairy places it and its never noticed the result would be even better than having to manually detonate it as you can be far gone by the time thr explosion warns everyone.
    Also, placing something on top of a Magrider for example could be nigh impossible to disarm.

    My suggestions:
    Split c4 into an AI and AV version.
    The AI version cant be a large AOE weapon even if it doesnt have a OHK range anymore. Currently c4 is used to kill tight infantry groupings, with such a change people would simply toss 2 c4 for a large AOE finisher. I think that it should depend on the class what the AI variant does. For example, the Medic could throw around 6 small charges like a grenade, but they stick to surfaces immediately. Each would deal +/-250 damage at the center blast but in a large area, allowing you to flush people out of cover. If 2 are placed within eachothers AOE they auto-detonate (to prevent creating large OHK AOE's.)
    For LA a rechargeable one. Whenever your jets are full you refill up to two fuel canisters, you can roll these across the ground but they can only be detonated by weapons fire. And more like that for each class.

    Then for AV, I think that an infinite thermite charge would work. Once placed and detonated, it starts burning and dealing the same amount of damage as 1 full repairtool per second (and you can carry 2 ofcourse), meaning a single player cant ever outrepair it but theres plenty of time to find the thermite charge. It can then be destroyed through disarmament (the fastest) or shooting it with small-arms. It could be an elongated item (works for the timed c4 idea too), the length would mean you can see and shoot it even if its on top of a vehicle where an Engineer cant reach with his repairtool.

    As far as I saw, it was used more against infantry than vehicles. This due to the fact that having more than 2 c4 was hard with the low amount of certs per hour you got, and that ties in with the next point of people actually ignoring vehicle kills because a vehicle got you the same xp reward as an infantry. Why waste 2 precious c4 on 1vehicle and possibly 2 drivers if you could use those big blasts to cut down 2+ players each in those crowded early days? Having 6 kills with 1 c4 back then wasnt unheard off.

    Also, having a tool to clear people camping a doorway isnt a bad thing. The people camping the doorway so close have alternatives, the people attacking that doorway require more skill (because chokepoint) to push through, and their only alternative is paying resources through MAX suits, grenades and c4 to clear them, and c4 reverses that skill requirement between the attacker and defender. I call that relatively good game design. It can be better, but its not the nightmare people make it out to be.
    • Up x 1
  12. YellowJacketXV

    Not entirely sure how good that would be. If there was a smaller c4 or a sort of demolition charge that cost half the expensive of c4 to buy and did such I wouldn't mind. But with the current upgrade capacity of MAXes to no longer by instagibbed by c4 it would make them even harder to uproot. One of c4's best attributes is a surprising explosion to help dislodge heavily encamped enemies. Get rid of that and we'll basically have trench warfare in the future.

    What would be a better option:
    -Reduce c4 explosion radius to be more of a charge (.5 of what it is now)
    -Enhance the range of the frag grenade.
    -Allow cooking of frag grenades or introduce a quick-det frag grenade for LA and HA.

    As it sits right now, the main reason I use c4 is to clear out heavily dug-in enemies. They can run too easily from a frag grenade, essentially running right back where they came without a single loss and the tug-of-war starts anew. C4, on the other hand, is nigh instantaneous and provides a good boost of exp per nanite per cert spent to unlock. Flashbangs are (for some reason) generally not followed upon by the general masses and smoke grenades offer no exp or they might be a good alternative.
  13. LordKrelas

    Risk: Death by AI, Infantry, being spotted, deploying C-4 without triggering it, Deploying C-4 missed, C-4 2x failed
    Every single time C-4 is used, it costs nanites.

    As well, eventually the Kobolt, Spitfire, Engineers, other top-gun, main-cannon, movement, and more will perhaps stop being effective for the moment.
    The tank has it's nanites back, unless it just died moments earlier, so it can do this again.
    As well, getting to the target, is the skillful part 1, actually getting the C-4 on target, and living long enough to detonate is part 2.

    All it takes, is movement of the vehicle, or any sensor, or any gunner, or any ally, or any thought of where the LA could be..
    and the LA is foiled easily, possibly while throwing the C-4, of which is lost the moment the LA dies, costing nanites each attempt.
    So this process costs nanites and time - in this time, the vehicle operator is regenerating nanites, and profiting off the LA attempts, for basic defensive actions on the vehicle's part.

    It's not as if the tank isn't capable of respawning either.

    Just to point that out.
    • Up x 1
  14. Drsexxytime

    Glad to see people approve of this. It's baby steps. There needs to be a hard counter to vehicles, and to be honest, if someone sneaks through all the infantry, and all the other vehicles, they should be rewarded with the kill on a MBT or whatever.