Butcher and Godsae buffed or Betel nerfed

careful mate. proceed with this nerf/buff b*llsh*t and you could get reported!
god i f*cking hate the whiners!

The Butcher should be seriously buffed, since an Auraxium weapon shouldn't simply be a sidegrade but a mild upgrade. It's only fair to reward persistence with something.

same for the betelgeuse. the moment it is overheated (and thats not as hard as you think it is especially while being in a bigger fight) you have to deal with a 6sec cooldown wich is the long reload of a 100rpm weapon and thats a big deal for a 50rpm weapon.


The carv has the same accuacy and shakynees as the orion and the betelgeuse is even more shaky since its not possible to put a grip on it.
and the VS orion does not perform as good as the anchor or the msw-r and the vs does not have an option that does perform as good as those two.....fairness??? do the vanu cry because of that?? no

http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=br100kpu&weapon1=7254&weapon2=7236&weapon3=80

TR has the best CQC to midrange default carbine and AR and the NC the best starter Cabine and AR when it comes to accuracy and damge over range....fairness?? vanu tears??? not there

i play all factions and i like to play all 3 factions but the permanent victims complex of NC and TR in this forum is a pain.

The VS typically dont cry about how the Orion preforms because they know the statistic is skewed by it being a default weapon or that most of the good players have moved from it to the battlegoos where the anchor and msw-r are not default weapons are are still better than the godsaw and butcher for close quarter engadgements just look at how many people own battlegooses compared to butchers and godsaws. I dont think the VS are OP i never stated the such i believe that NC have the best well rounded arsinal that said that the Heat mechanic is an advantage sure you can oveheat it and have a long cooldown period but honestly how often does that happen? Its a simple thing the weapon isnt overpowered in stats the only thing that gives it an edge is that its reloading ANYTIME you are not firing the weapon without the drawback of being vulnerable aswell unless and this is a big unless you over heat it.

Also ide just like to say that even tho i believe the battlegoose to be better because of its heat mechanic ide prefer it to have that kind of faction flavor than not.

A lot of people here trying to derail the argument by posting a lot of over performing vehicle weapons as if that has any really argument in an infantry v. infantry debate.

One can rationally argue that infantry v. infantry combat is the VAST majority of action in this game. Vehicles cost resources and often a lot of commitment and investment to do well, the first person shooter aspect is where we all begin and majority spend our time with.

It is that aspect that I believe the FPS part of this game each faction should be as close to one another is terms of capability and performance. Especially the heavy assault class because that's the go-to class for most engagements, it's the jack of all trades but also a master of them too. If It were up to me I'd restrict all their guns to the NS division, as in Orion would be NS and the Carb and the Saw. It's really the only way you can really balance infantry combat, but alas people on one hand want competitive gaming but also spout about faction traits. Which means, inevitably, someones going to get a better load out that the other two factions.

Currently that load out is the Orion/ bettlegeuse, while I don't think it's any single trait of the gun such as .75ads, unlimited ammo, or accuracy. I do believe most players will agree (Vs too) that those guns seems to be greater than the sum of their parts, no one can pin point why but it performs well in the hands of newcomers and veterans alike. Where as the Saw is terrible for new players and decent for veterans and the Carb being the opposite, they could use some rebalancing to bring them up to Orion/ bettelgeuse levels of capability.

I play Vs a lot recently (working on another 100) and really like the Orion, it feels like a solid gun and really any nerf would probably just break it. Instead a slight performance improvement to the other two factions mainstay LMGs is a reasonable demand considering how much lower they perform in comparison.

Though I will agree with a lot of Vanu on the OP choice of words, he should have went with more a debate tone over the "This way or the highway" form.

His choice of words aside, the statement is nonetheless valid.

If you have a = 10, b = 5 and c = 6 with and you want to have them all within an error margin of 1 you only have three ways.
1. You bring a down to b/c
2. You bring b/c up to a
3. You change everything and try to meet in the middle.

I hate having to play HA. But it really is the only "combat" class, capable of engaging every single target better than any other infantry class. Infiltrator as sniper is the only class that can do something better than HA.
Engineers and medics are for support, infiltrators for scouting and harrassing and LAs are for harassing and dropping C4 bricks from roofs.

I only play TR, but I change to my alts long enough to get a feeling of weapons I want to check from the other side.
Understandably I can't really do that for the Betelgeuse, but my opinion of the Orion is was quite simply this:
"Where the hell is the recoil??"

Also someone really has to explain why it always is compared to the MSW-R and the Anchor. The Orion is performing well within the are where the other standard LMGs perform, and I thought the equivalent of the MSW-R was the Pulsar (although I could be horribly wrong here)

Just because 2 LMGs have the same price,doesn't mean they are rivals of each other

So 0.75 ADS is not problem, now problem is heat mechanic? hahaha


Its like comparing Lasher and Jackhammer and Minigun in cqc and saying nerf jackhammer and Minigun because it sucks in cqc.

Damn when i log in some posters disapear suddenly. MMMH

Pls VS don´t tell me that you don´t compaire the directive weapons to each other and need to be balanced.

Fact:

The Betelgoose is perfoming better then the GODSAW and the CARV

Betel KPU: 52,59
Butcher : 27,19
Godsaw : 28,35


It does not matter what stats you are looking at the Betel performes about 20-50 % better than both others and about 60 % better then every other LMG. When this is not broken i don´t know.

But VS defended the old ZOE and the PPA until it was so gamebreaking the numbers of TR and NC went to the ground. Remember most of the VS here its not about helping the game its about keeping their OP stuff as long as they can. I still say a MAJOR LMG pass has to come. I don´t know what the DEVS smoked to get rid of it

no, not much worse, only equal because then they would have a dead time zone like others are forced to reload at some point, on top of their unlimited ammo thing.
"only 49 bullets before max heat", thats why i said the heat mechanic is actually no real restriction, only offers unlimited ammo. you do know that the best TR LMG has 50 bullets in one mag? thats 1 bullet difference but the MSW-R needs 3-3.3 secs to reload and the player is vulnerable during this time. sry but only 1 bullet difference is no real downside, its actually better if you dont have to reload.

and plz dont try to still sell TR this 400+ mag thing, especially against max. youre a OHK for NC max´s and dont live much longer against VS double 167dmg. when do you think youll have the time do get off those 400 bullets if you could just switch to a rocket launcher instead? there is rly noone ingame who does this with the butchers 150 bullets yet, so why do you think people would do this with 400 bullets?
aside from the butcher we already have the T7-Mini-Chaingun with 200 bullets per mag, unnecessary and with a COF so inaccurate that its similar to a LMG COF after 30 continuous shots. just not needed and worthless. had my fun with the chaingun outside of any competition, but the last thing i want is a gun that provides the same.

Directive-wise it is definately a slightly strange idea though, a directive-MSW-R would have been a better direct match for the Betel, although if they'd given the NC a directive super-Anchor the forums would have literally melted!

You think here are VS would oppose buffing the NC or TR in any case. I would have never thought that

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I don´t even get that pls explain? Now you are saying the Betel, Butcher and GodSaw you can´t compaire?

I'd like the Godsaw and Butcher to have some unique and faction flavoured feature like the BG has a heat mechanic - different and techno =VS trait

Every feature seems to be VS trait atm:

Unlimeted AMMO - VS
Fast fireing (750 rpm) - VS
Fast moving - VS
Speed - VS
Hard Hitting - VS

How about BRRT for Butcher (more dakka) and Magnum rounds (more damage) for Godsaw? Not as different as a heat mechanic but faction related at least? Then each ES directive weapon has a superior ability to the stock weapon it is based on.

If you wonder where the recoil on the Orion is, you also have to wonder where it is on the CARV and Anchor. The CARV is almost identical to the Orion and the Anchor has even less recoil than the Orion...
MSW-R and Orion have the same RoF and magazine size. The Pulsar has less RoF and a larger magazine.

Come on, you can do better than this...

I'm not playing that much and I have a habit of only using weapons till I get auraxium on it.
From what I can remember from the CARV I wasn't thrilled by its performance, but then again its been an eternity since I used it.

But where is the actual trait if the weapon acts the same like the others during constant fire with more dakka and BRRT? COF/inaccuracy?

NC - possible direct dmg improvement related to the aim
VS - no more engi/terminal needed for resupply and good positions can be claimed forever. main weapon is ready all the time without having to reload and having the trouble to not be able to shoot back while it still has as much bullets until max heat like other LMG´s.
TR - bigger mag, no COF or accuracy improvement, burst controle is still necessary to stay accurate like for every other LMG. 50-100 bullets is average and gets the job done, more is redundant. I dont see the trait here.

The more bullet concept is just a big fail.

No I was responding to Haquim because he thinks that we should compare weapons according their prices.though I still can't understand what made you relate directive weapons with prices