Burst Carbine Changes

Cross Posting from today's patchnotes.

Gauss Compact Burst
oRecoil max magnitude increased from 0.4 to 0.5
oBurst recoil first shot modifier decreased from 1.75 to 0.75
oRecoil Increase increased from 0 to 0.1
oHipfire cof increased by 0.5

·Solstice VE3 Burst
oRecoil max magnitude increased from 0.25 to 0.35
oBurst recoil first shot modifier decreased from 2.8 to 0.75
oRecoil Increase Crouched increased from 0to 0.1
oRecoil Increase decreased from 0 to 0.1
oHipfire cof increased by 0.5

·Trac-5 Burst
oBurst recoil first shot modifier decreased from 2.35 to 0.75
oRecoil max magnitude increased from 0.3 to .5
oRecoil Increase Crouched increased from 0to 0.2
oRecoil Increase increased from 0 to 0.2
oHipfire cof increased by 0.5

So are these the changes that were truly needed for Burst Weapons to become better? Or was it just a fluff change to get people to THINK they were buffing Burst Weapons? (I only put Carbines here because this is the Light Assault Forum)

It's a good change. As always with SOE/DBG, they went the lazy route and did the least amount of work they possibly could. What they did is not enough to make burst weapons interesting, but at least now they're much more usable.

I also like that they nerfed the hip fire, at least now there will be a meaningful tradeoff.

The way they went - increase recoil, but reduce FSRM - made stronger the 2-round burst weapons.
First shot has small recoil, second shot has lots of it. If there's a third shot, it's likely to miss, unless you compensate.

Burst mode on non-dedicated burst weapons is still useless tho.

I don't think burst weapons are particularly interesting or strong now, but at least I'm not gonna run like hell from auraxiuming solstice burst. I'll probably have more to say when I do.

Seems like burst carbines are now very competitive with other carbine offerings. Their accuracy is on par with precision carbines at midrange, while maintaining the DPS of the default carbines, which except the Solstice is very respectable at close range.

Also HVA seems like a no brainer upgrade now, as it brings all 3 burst carbines to 600m/s, which is a big jump from the ~500m/s default speeds. The 10% recoil increase is negligible because at the ranges where it matters you'll firing in bursts anyways, which minimizes the effects due to the new 0.75 FSRM.

Its a good idea to invest certs into a burst rifle???? Because im thinking to start a new NC char with burst rifle as main weapon.

No.

you can use them without feeling the sensation of having your teeth pulled... it doesn't make them competitive...

Actually, I'm going to town on people with the burst fire ARs. (Equinox I'm reliably counter sniping) without HVA even.
The carbines I havn't used yet, though they would be a bit under performing I would think due to losing some -effective- rate of fire to bursting. Burst fire is a range buff, not useful for short range weapons like carbines.

Overall, very happy with the changes, I think they're in a sweet spot right now, just fine. If you want a 0-10m range gun, you shouldn't be looking at or judging Burst fire rifles and carbines. They're not made for that.

It's definitely not a fluff change. They're much easier to use now than before. They're not that much more effective than before in skilled hands, but the skill floor has dropped considerably, making them much more usable by the masses.

For med/long range combat (say, 50-100m) they are quite competitive.

They're better than before but the only burst carbine worth using is the NC burst variant. Every single time I've used the Solstice Burst I wished I had the default Solstice. What kills the Solstice Burst is its pathetic DPM coupled with the 3 round burst. I guess you could make the argument that if you have good aim you're good with the burst variant but if you have good aim then you even better off with the Solstice or Pulsar.

Haven't tried ARs yet, but yeah for the carbines only the NC version is what I'd call competitive(it is actually pretty awesome). TR/VS versions are good but have better alternatives. If you're an auraxium hunter, however, things are a lot better now.

Now that the changes have been made, the burst weapons are an excellent alternative for people who - like me - lack trigger discipline. The COF stays nice and tight. My personal preference: reflex sight and laser pointer, no barrel attachment or HVA.

it's been about a month and I've been using the burst carbines almost exclusively. I feel that I can speak a little more about each ES variant.

Trac Burst:
This is a straight up upgrade to Trac 5, because it has -25% horizontal shake while maintaining the same damage profile. With exception to the Solstice Burst, no other 143dmg carbine has that tight of a horizontal recoil pattern. Not even the T5-AMC or NS-11c, which are supposed to be dedicated to longer range. This fills what I believe is the biggest shortcoming of the Trac-5/Jaguar, and allows for headshots up to a much greater distance. In CQC the gun is still very viable, as it's easy to abuse the mouse input queue to get the full 750rpm, and with its tight recoil, you have a HS machine. Yes it loses to CQC carbines that have insane ROF and specialized in hipfire, but I find in general it beats the other all-rounders. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it gives the Jaguar a run for its money as the best all-rounder, with more focus on mid-range.

Gauss Compact Burst:
Holy crap this thing is a laser pointer. It has -20% horizontal shake compared to Mercenary, but as others have mentioned, its 2-shot burst mechanic benefits much more from the new 0.75FSRM. The thing barely recoils at all, in any direction. At the same time though, because 2-shot bursts are shorter, I find it harder to use the mouse input queue to maximize the fire rate. Mercenary is probably still the better all rounder, but the Burst is indisputably the king of long range.

Solstice Burst:
I think the VS got the shaft here. Yes the burst also has less horizontal recoil compared to vanilla solstice, and the new FSRM is a big departure from the vanilla's 2.8xFSRM. But unlike the TR where the burst variant fixes the shortcoming of the default variant, or the NC burst carbine that made an already amazing weapon even more accurate, making a burst carbine out of the "meh" solstice just yields a "meh" burst carbine. The recoil of the default Solstice was already very controllable, making a burst out of it doesn't really add that much. The damage per mag is still low, the ROF is still lower than other 143 weapons. Most importantly, the Solstice Burst STILL does nothing that the Pulsar C doesn't do better. Best to skip it imo.

I'm not sure why the burst carbines are being received negatively on this forum. But I think the changes make the TR/NC burst carbines really shine. I'd love to hear people explain why they think these are still bad, as opposed to just saying they're bad.

Thanks for this post, I'll quote you for the carbine guide on planethead.info. Could you link your character please, though?

I can't speak for other people, but myself I dislike burst carbines for these reasons:

1. Don't feel like burst weapons. This was a problem before the buff, and it still is. In PS2, players take too many bullets to kill, and you can't hope to kill a target within 1-2 bursts. There's pause between bursts, so essentially you still get an automatic weapon, you just have to spam the left mouse button to get to the effective rate of fire.
2. Precision carbines offer better performance at range while being easier to use, and similar performance up close. There's really no reason to use them other than for the novelty of having to click all the time.
3. Having mostly the same base stats and models as default carbines, they don't feel unique enough.

This is what a burst rifle should be. A weapon with a unique model, sound and feel, that actually fires in bursts. What we get are sidegrades to default carbines. The buff they received was much needed, maybe even enough to make them competitive if the player wants to use them for whatever reason, but still not unique / interesting / strong enough to actually recommend them to people.

I can't dispute it would be nice if burst weapons had a more unique feel, but the super-tight moving CoF on these guns is really nice. The range at which you can strafe and still reliably hit the target with the burst guns is much greater than any full auto gun.

I confess, I haven't actually used any of them post buff, and prior to that my experience is limited to auraxiuming TRAC 5 Burst, which I just spamclicked in close quarters with laser sight. I tend to change my opinion of a gun after I use it, and when I finally get around that maybe I'll gain a better understanding. Who knows, maybe it's hidden OP right there.

You reeeeeeally need to give them a try, and soon. They're a real delight to use now, whereas before it felt like you were constantly fighting against the weapon to keep it under control (presumably until you got a lot of experience w/ it. I'm still a burst-weapon newbie so I never was that comfortable with the way they were).

I've tried them all out pretty extensively in VR, but I've really only used the Solstice Burst in combat. The SB really gives the Pulsar C a run for its money when it comes to accuracy. It's actually more accurate when you're on the move, although the Pulsar C is still slightly more accurate if you're stationary. I'm having so much fun w/ the SB that it's actually gotten me to play LA fairly regularly again.

It's on my to-do list, but for now I want to focus on stalkering for knife kills, mostly. I starting playing WoW again, so I barely play PS2 at all nowadays. Maybe later.

EDIT: Played for a couple of lives with TRAC 5 Burst, had mixed feelings. It had good accuracy within 20-40m, but then so would the default TRAC 5. I had problems when hip firing for my life and generally tap firing and controlling the recoil at the same time.

Overall I'm not impressed and I keep the opinion that while Burst carbines have potential to do good in the right hands, they're still nothing but weird sidegrades to default carbines, outclassed by real ranged carbines.