[Suggestion] Buff the VS Lacerta AR

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by netBattler, Jan 17, 2021.

  1. netBattler

    The Doku Burst Rifles for the TR (Arbalest) and NC (Vanquisher) can both potentially eliminate a target with 2 trigger pulls; I mean with body shots only. The VS Variant, the Lacerta takes 3.

    Devs, can you buff the Lacerta's damage model to bring it up to par with the other rifles?

    Idea: make it a 4-round burst with 143 minimum damage.

    PWEEEEEEEZ
  2. Demigan

    It has a higher rate of fire, so basically you are asking for the Lacerta to kill in the same amount of bursts but at a higher speed?

    Now I would have agreed that the Vanquisher is one of the few OP NC weapons, however I just checked Voidwell:
    https://voidwell.com/ps2/oracle?sta...06186&startDate=2020-06-21&endDate=2021-01-16

    And the Lacerta isn't exactly an underdog. So your idea to buff it would make it more powerful than the Vanquisher and Arbalest. The Arbalest being the one that is lagging behind and the most in need of a buff of all 3 AR's. Although looking at all AR's overall neither of these NSX weapons seems to be overly powerful in performance.
    • Up x 1
  3. netBattler

    Thanks for your input, Demi. Very interesting points.

    The Arbalest does the most damage per 2 trigger pulls though, at 1500 damage. With a buff in its recoil reduction, it could more easily land all 12 shots... that might be just the buff it needs. It would even defeat nanoweave armor with no or few other buffs.

    I don't know what the KPU stat is on voidwell, but when I track raw kills numbers, it is clear that the Vanquisher is the winner (and that the Arbalest needs a buff too).
    https://voidwell.com/ps2/oracle?sta...06186&startDate=2020-12-17&endDate=2021-01-17

    My suggestion to make the Lacerta have a 4 round burst and a 143 minimum damage would, in some regards, bring it up to par with the Vanquisher in that it would be a 2 burst kill, but 3 bursts vs Nanoweave.

    While I can acknowledge that the Lacerta might shoot the fastest, I don't think the difference is huge in most fights - bar CQC. Increased CQC power could be balanced by increasing hipfire spread. Anyway, when you're taking measured, calculated shots, I can't imagine the need for spamming fire in most situations. And I'd further say that the time between bursts is just about right for all the ARs in question for taking said measured shots. BUT THATS JUST MY OPINION and I haven't looked at the numbers as diligently as I can yet.

    But the higher fire rate of the Lacerta might be justified in that it has the lowest muzzle velocity of all 3 rifles in question, and is therefore less forgiving against moving targets.
  4. Demigan

    KPU means "kills per Unique". A "unique" is a single character (so not the amount of times this character pulls it). Every character that has equipped the weapon at some point is registered (it might be a bit more nuanced that it only registers if the character has scored a kill or death while holding one).

    If you look at pure kills, it tallies the kills of every Unique. The Vanquisher is used more often than the Lacerta (1), but scores about the same amount of KPU. This means that due to the amount of users the kills stat seems higher. But on a per-player basis (KPU) the Lacerta and Vanquisher are close, with the Lacerta leading more often than not. Although with the variation in KPU on a daily basis and how close they are I would say it's a small difference.

    (1): https://voidwell.com/ps2/oracle?sta...06186&startDate=2020-12-17&endDate=2021-01-17


    The raw damage output per burst isn't that meaningful. At 690 RPM the Arbalest has a DPS of 1437 and no option to settle it's COF during bursts which the other two do have. The Vanquisher has a DPS of 1503 and the Lacerta 1575. This also shows you why the Arbalest is the worst: It has less DPS and with 6-round bursts less control over it's COF growth. Unless you are almost against your opponent holding your fire is as important as holding the trigger!

    So the Arbalest is the one in need of a buff here. Its 6-round burst is detrimental, and in those times where you aren't punished with a 6-round burst the Lacerta and Vanquisher can simply keep bursting without penalties.
    • Up x 2
  5. JibbaJabba

    That's a quad dink in one pull. In the hands of a skilled player that would be really op.
  6. netBattler

    You mean a one-burst headshot kill? Yeah it's quite powerful, but the Vanquisher is already that way with a 167 minimum damage, a 3 round burst to the head is a one burst headshot kill from any distance.

    Edit: Arbalest is a one burst headshot kill too.



    Okay thanks for clearing things up on KPU. But I kind of see things the opposite way, relative to what you wrote. DPS is of theoretical pertinence, of course. But those DPS figures are all within roughly 10% of each other; the real kicker is that those DPS figures all imply that you could take a target down in well under a second with each gun, assuming you don't miss. Believe me when I say I do think tenths of seconds matter in some fights, but let's view things practically: with TTKs within 10% of each other, do you really think the statistically outlying event of people firing at each other, with the same dead on accuracy, at the same exact time, is going to happen often enough to complain about? I would say when pitting these rifles against each other, it's whoever gets the micro-alpha damage first is the winner. In other words, the player that reacts the fastest will win more often than not IMO. I mean that's my take on it.

    Oh btw I TOTALLY support buffing the Arbalest.
  7. Thalestr

    The Lacerta is a wonderful gun and I use it all the time on my Medic. I think giving it any buffs would really nudge it into OP territory because it's very potent as it is. Its high accuracy and no bullet drop makes it extremely deadly in well-aimed hands and I have even managed to counter-snipe wit it at long ranges. Plus the lashing ammo (Lasherta) is hilarious.

    I dunno. I really think it's fine as it is.
  8. netBattler


    The Lacerta is indeed a great gun. But if I could have the Vanquisher on the VS, I would choose the Vanquisher over it any day. Go in VR and try it - it's ALMOST as accurate as the Lacerta, but hits harder.
  9. Demigan

    I try to corrolate different things to explain what is happening. No data is useful in a void.

    You currently focus on the amount of bursts to kill, but I look at the performance everyone gets and what this means.

    We can see and agree that the Arbalest is in need of buffs. The performance is lower than the Vanquisher and Lacerta. We can then look at the weapon's mechanical stats to see what could be the problem. The Arbalest has lower DPS and longer bursts causing it problems with accuracy. Also the starting hipfire accuracies compared to the Lacerta are the same. Its attachments are also lacking, like a lower vertical recoil for 7% less fire rate which is pretty much a downgrade.

    Then we can look at the Lacerta. You think that it's lacking because it doesnt have 2 burst kill ability. Yet its performance isnt lacking and the Lacerta is much more than just a 2 burst kill weapon, the average player will not be pulling that off constantly and trying to balance it around that wouldnt be good. The Lacerta has things like accuracy, various attachments, reload speed, magazine size etc that all contribute to the whole weapon.

    My advice: dont try to balance based on a single factor. Its obviously not that big of a problem otherwise the Lacerta would be performing far worse.
    • Up x 1
  10. That_One_Kane_Guy

    Lacerta is the next best thing to the Vanquisher, it's just fine.

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