Buff Lancer ?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Halkesh, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. Halkesh

    On your opinion, what will you do to make the Lancer worth it for VS ?
  2. Towie

    Well the old Lancer had two things going for it - it force multiplied well, so get a bunch together and they were good - and the extreme range (despite it being tricky to hit at extreme range due to no-zoom). However it was very situational.
    If every VS had one and formed a Lancer squad at the right time then it would have been nerfed a long time ago - but that simply didn't happen very often (Wrel himself included this statement in a video). Maybe it started happening more ? I don't know, it didn't feel that way.

    BUT taking the range away without any noticeable buff has made it poor. So now you're standing in plain site waiting for it to charge up to tickle something at range (but not extreme range) and achieve very little.

    How to fix ? Well i'm generally against extreme range weapons, not least because the game engine regularly fails to render stuff that's far away, so a DPS increase may be the easiest way to re-balance it's usefulness.It would still be dull - but dull and ineffective as it is today is not a good combo.

    Shame we can't check out the Oracle any more - Striker always used to be best AA, Phoenix best AI and Lancer best AV. I'd be surprised if anyone is actually using the Lancer now.
  3. Halkesh

    I still use my Lancer, generally against aircraft because lock-on are unreliable or deal too few damage. Against ground target, it's meh. I'll try to describe my lonewolf-Lancer user point of view as much as I can :
    Against liberator and galaxy, it's an excellent weapon because of the high chance to hit and huge damage. (more than a G2A RL)
    Against ESF, it's hard to hit them but after some training, it's managable and for a huge reward (3rd charge shot + 2nd charge shot at 150m and it's a dead ESF if he don't use FS). The charging mechanic hurt a lot here, because ESF like hit&run, and you can't stay in full charged mode more than 2 sec.
    Against harasser, you hit reliably but for pitiful damage, at close range the charge mechanic make the lancer near-useless. Generally speaking, all rocket launcher are bad against harasser.
    Against tank, sunderer and ant, you'll hit most of your shot, even at more than 300m, but enemy will be able to outrepair your damage, even at less than 150m. Past 300m it's useless.
    Against Flash, Lancer is unreliable : you rarely hit at medium to long range and at close range you can't even shot because of the charge mechanic. And even if you hit a full charged shot, flash don't even enter into critical state.
    Against MAX, it deal pitiful damage and charge up mechanic make it useless at close range.
    Against sniper, it can work against noobs that don't strafe after cloaking.


    You're talking about DPS :
    Lancer have 145 DPS@150m - 72DPS@300m
    Default RL have 194 DPS (best effective DPS in class)
    Decimator have 162 DPS
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  4. Ziggurat8

    I can't say for sure what would make the Lancer worth using without making it too strong but it really needs something.

    It's just such a bad weapon in its current state I cant keep it equipped. I keep going back to it thinking maybe it's just that I'm not giving it enough play time or I'm using it wrong and after a few times of trying to make it work I just give up.

    The Lancer sucks.

    It really needs some kind of buff. Maybe <ROF for the 0 charge mag dump or a higher damage per charge buff, maybe a faster reload...Somethings gotta be able to make it worth using though.
  5. chamks

    he allready puted an end to your stupid post
  6. Halkesh

    Increasing the RoF for non-charged shot look like a good idea to improve Lancer DPS at close range, at least it's something.
  7. Insignus

    No.
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  8. Prudentia

    what a nicely thought out and well presented argument
  9. FateJH

    Well, Halkesh didn't specify "and, if not, why not."
  10. Insignus

    The lancer was nerfed for a number of very specific reasons. None of these reasons has been invalidated by post CAI changes.

    The state it is currently in is desirable compared to alternatives.
  11. Halkesh

    I'm not a lawyer righting CGU.


    Can you develop those very specific reason ?
  12. stalkish

  13. raffa2

    It's not that different from other ES launchers right now, the difference between the others now is that the stiker kills more because of arrogant pilots (which are a good number) that think they can hover around infantry without punishment, while the Phoenix kills more simply because it doesn't have any drawbacks when you're in the spawn room, so a lot of people use it.

    The lancer can
    1) fill that close range AA job, you just aim and shoot low hanging planes and they won't be able to continue fighting in that area, at least at low altitude
    2) piss off vehicles from the distance, a practice that may even become lethal and hard to counter if executed in group, or with good positioning and chosing the right targets.

    There are still people nowadays doing lancer nests for giggles despite the nerf, still nowadays none even approaches the areas covered by the lancers with vehicles when that happens.
  14. Insignus

    Specifically that at higher damages and at the ranges it was being used at, it was more effective against aircraft than it needed to be, and armor could not effectively respond to it.

    At lower numbers, this was an annoyance to armor, but lethal to aircraft (Principally due to its favorable ballistics - i.e. long range, fast travel, no drop). It was also extremely difficult, if not impossible, to dodge, in comparison to other launchers, which created a profound disparity, giving it two faction specific traits vs. the other ES launchers having one (Striker Lock On and Phoenix Guidance vs. Lancer Charge mechanic and impossibility to dodge.)

    At higher numbers it was fight stopping in the extreme.

    This issue was broached in the community a few times, with the usual go around of "You can't nerf my snowflake" and "Lancer not OP, nerf striker" and "No one really uses it like that."

    Thus, there was not a dearth of positive constructive input on how it could be changed that wouldn't be overly severe, and as a result, it was rather severely nerfed.

    Improving it back upwards by boosting damage or extending range, the two values that would be required to re-buff the lancer effectively, would merely return it to the way it was before. This is not a desirable outcome.

    Reducing the charge timer by extremely small amounts may be a viable field for improvement.
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  15. Prudentia

    yes thereare till people using the Lancer for giggles... cause thats all it does: Tickle
    it has neither the DPS nor the Alpha to kill anything. My outfit did a Lancer nest a few weeks ago on the mountains between Heyoka Chemical and Chimney rock. 7 People with Lancers killed exactly 3 tanks from a tankzerg cause we needed all 3 fully charged shots of a mag to even kill a single tank and because we were within render distance of the vehicles that meant our medics got a lot of XP. and after 10 minutes the tankzerg just had ignored us,moved on to camping the spawnroom outside of our reach and we just went elsewhere cause there was no point in even being there in the first place.
  16. FateJH

    Assuming you were not doing rear or side damage, you were somewhere near or beyond 300m. 350 damage * 7 shots = 2450 damage per volley. That's approximately 2 R1 volleys (15) shots for Lightnings and non-Vanguards. The side would have been enough to kill before 2 full volleys; hitting the rear would have destroyed within 1 R1 (7 shots).

    If you were within 150m, it would have been 700 damage * 7 shots = 4900 damage with unmitigated damage per volley and that is without hitting weak directions. That's 1 R1 volleys for non-Vanguards.

    All of this ignores repairs and such, of course.
  17. Oleker2

    The only buff the lancer needs is squad/platoon leads of the faction to grow ******* brains and start to call pancer squads to kill enemy tanks. The lancer is weak by itself, and wicked strong on groups. The gun itself dosen't need change, is the faction mentality that needs to change.
  18. Halkesh

    Pre-CAI Lancer had its own damage type and used to deal about the same damage as a G2A rocket to aircraft, so I don't think "lethal" is the best description here.
    It's true that pre-CAI lancer scaled well with squad and had hitscan velocity.
    The thing is CAI nerfed its long-range advantage without any compensation in DPS or close range effectiveness (improved magazine size was placebo. BTW rocket ammobelt still give 6 ammo per rank instead of 9).

    You want to improve its DPS by reducing the charge-time.
    By seen how dev changed the lancer, I think it's the better thing to do. Lancer could also need a better non-charged shot DPS : currently the only reason to use non-charged shot is to steal kills.
    Current lancer DPS (non-charged / 1st charge / full-charge) :106 / 120 / 145 (@150m)
    Default RL DPS : 200
    Decimator DPS : 163

    IMO, lancer DPS should be something like 190 / 175 / 160 (@150m)
  19. Insignus

    It deserved to be nerfed in its range capacity. The lack of dodge ability, principally its unique firing mechanism, is what made it lethal versus aircraft. The velocity and range nerf is what corrected this. It would easily melt 1/3rd or more off light aircraft.
  20. raffa2

    We're speaking about a weapon that can't be easily missed or dodged, in what way should it have a DPS any close to the standard rocket launcher?
    Why would you ever pick the default rocket launcher in this case?
    What's makes you think that having a 190 DPS projectile armor piercing infantry weapon is balanced in any way?
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