[Suggestion] Buff AP Cannons

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Cavadus, Dec 26, 2012.

  1. Cavadus

    As the title says.

    Damage needs to be increased, projectile velocity needs to be increased, drop needs to be reduced.

    AP cannons pretty much require a direct hit to insta-gib infantry and AoE is virtually non-existent. Right now HEAT does everything AP does plus it lets AFVs farm infantry easily. If you look at the numbers the bonus damage against AFVs for AP cannons is so miniscule that AP cannons don't even need less rounds than HEAT cannons to destroy targets.

    So make AP cannons better. They should be the premiere anti-AFV munition but they don't even come close matching or surpassing the utility gained by rolling HEAT.

    Increase the damage of AP cannons by 10-15% across the board and then increase projectile velocity from 225 to 325. At least 300.

    Not only will this make anti-AFV equipment more attractive but it'll also cut down the HE/HEAT spam against infantry unless an AFV is purpose-built for that.

    MBT operators should want to be rolling AP cannons. Right now HEAT with the AT secondary dominates because of flexibility.

    I'd even go so far as to suggest removing all AT capabilities from secondaries and drastically reducing splash damage from HEAT; heat rounds are shaped charges designed to focus armor penetrating metals (usually copper, which is liquified by the heat from the charge's detonation and propelled forward), not in an AoE, so the current ballistic behavior of them is slightly absurd anyways. An easy way to describe HEAT would be that it's a CoF munition whose origin is the point of impact.



    Basically, AP should be completely anti-tank sans direct hits on anything else, HEAT should be for all vehicles which aren't MBTs, and HE is obviously the true AI option.

    I want to use AP cannons but they neither kill AFVs more quickly than HEAT nor are they any easier to use. Plus I more or less lose the ability to farm dismounts.

    TLDR: AP cannons should be buffed so that they are more attractive and an easier to use option for tankers which will have a secondary effect of reducing overall AI spam.
    • Up x 1
  2. Xiphos

    AP cannon damage is fine. Their projectile velocity could be increased and drop reduced though to make them more attractive in long range tank vs tank fights. Would also help a bit with the overpowered Magrider strafing that lets them avoid far too many shots.
  3. serenekaos

    I can only draw from the Lightning and Prowler but I thought they already had less drop....maybe I'm wrong and just imagining things. But the prowler AP shells for sure seem to have less drop to me.
  4. gilrad

    What they should do is make it so ap rounds ignore a certain amount of armor, making them the most suitable for head-to-head combat.
  5. HellasVagabond

    We've talked about this in the past....AP needs a buff for the Vanguard but.......Nothing gets buffed for the NC almost ever...
  6. Xiphos

    I only have AP shells on the Vanguard and it feels like a waste of certs. With AP shells I'm pretty much giving up the ability to kill or even hurt infantry with the main gun, in exchange for a very slightly easier time hitting other vehicles. The tradeoff feels bad because tank kills are rare so I'll get very little certs for my time.

    Now if AP shells had a larger blast radius but did much less damage to infantry then it would still be very difficult to kill them but at least I would get kill assist certs and feel more comfortable rolling with AP shells.
  7. Grotpar

    AP rounds need buffs across the board.

    AP rounds only deal 10% more damage than HEAT rounds for the Lightning, unsure about the others as I don't have the spreadsheet in front of me.
    They already do have higher velocity across the board, so they might be okay there.

    In case of the Lightning, I think AP rounds should one shot an ESF.(I think it leaves then burning, currently)
    As well as requiring one shot less to kill an MBT at the front, side and back.(HEAT and AP currently kill an MBT in 3 shots from the back)

    In case of MBTs, should also require one shot less from the front and side, and I believe HEAT rounds already two shot MBTs from the back, so for balance purposes, AP rounds should probably stay a two shot, but deal considerably more damage so less front/side shots are required as follow up.
  8. AnnPerkins

    It has pretty low drop already. I'd like to see it have just a little more damage so when I pop some rocketjockey in the face with it he doesn't have a couple seconds of critical damage to bail or try to kamikaze me.
  9. Littleman

    I prefer this over a straight damage increase. A straight damage increase would be more rewarding for impacting rear armor, but no one likes being insta-gibbed, and I'm not about to support the notion. Ignoring mitigation values however, that won't necessarily increase the damage of the round per se, just improve it's performance against a specific target type. It could use more projectile speed too. The drop is fine, or rather, the drop will be less noticeable the faster the round travels.
  10. Cavadus

    HEAT has a projectile velocity of 200, AP has 225. AP is currently faster than HEAT, yes, but it needs to be faster yet.
  11. Grotpar

    As long as AP rounds don't one shot from the back, a flat damage increase is just far easier to implement.
  12. Littleman

    While true, I'm not paying SOE to take the easy way out every damn time they adjust something. It's why AA/ground/Air relations are as f***ed up as they are right now. Air CANNOT counter air if they want the ground game to survive.
  13. Grotpar

    But this doesn't actually concern air.. Considering that ESFs are already one shotted by MBT rounds and Liberators aren't supposed to get hit by tanks. And well, when was the last time you saw a Galaxy?

    AP cannon buffs are only really going to affect tanks, sunderers and base defenses, and I expect better performance against all of them
  14. DeadlyShoe

    I think AP rounds need to be 40-50% faster than HEAT so they are premiere for long range combat.

    i'm not sure if the damage should really be buffed, mainly because I think tanks die fast enough already.
  15. Littleman

    Totally missed that it was a jab at SOE regarding another hot topic as a hint that simply screwing with damage tables hasn't really solved jack. I question how the lightning would handle against higher damage outputs vs mitigating less of the damage. I'm sure there's a threshold somewhere in the armor values where the lightning would fare better against an armor piercing mechanic as opposed to a straight up damage increase when it's taking fire.
  16. Compass

    I agree with the AP feeling flonky sentiment.

    Effectiveness against Infantry/Armor

    HE 115%/85%

    HEAT 100%/100%

    AP 20%/115%

    THe percentages don't quite add up :/
  17. Grotpar

    I didn't miss it, it's just not relevant when it comes to this topic.
  18. Littleman

    No, you missed it. Simply raising AP damage levels would possibly have a more drastic, global effect than simply making them ignore some portion of armor mitigation. Mind you, this is assuming there is such a thing, and small arms aren't simply coded to not do any damage to tanks and libs at all.
  19. Alex Heartnet

    I carry AP rounds on my Vanguard because I actively avoid infantry most the time, and don't shoot HEAT shells at them often enough to justify carrying it. It's just too easy for infantry to destroy the slow Vanguard if you try and use it as an anti-infantry weapon.

    If that is indeed the case, then just increase AP damage against MBT's instead of an across-the-board damage increase.