BRING BACK THERMALS!

Those who play infantry and do not like the fact they can be spotted by Thermal Optics have the option to play countless numbers of other infantry based games that do not have vehicles. Planetside 2 allows players to pilot both ground and air vehicles and this aspect of the game makes Planetside 2 unique and very fun! Taking away thermals from air units takes away from the air experience of Planetside 2, particularly when multiple infantry can all lock on to a single ESF at the same time. With no Thermals on ESF's combined with Burster Maxes and the newly addied anti-air weapons, by the time you (the ESF) spot infantry running on the ground something is already shooting at you. There is a wide variety of Anti-Air weapons for infantry to choose from including lock-on rockets, one-shot kill dumbfire rockets as well as the newly added rocklet launcher, along with enemy ground and air vehicles that can all shoot down ESF's very easily. If an ESF is able to evade being shot down by the vast amount of Anti-Air for a given amount of time and go on a killstreak then they've earned the right to do so, without having their ESF Thermals changed to "Threat Detection". Taking away Thermal Optics also greatly reduces the need for the M14-Banshee, essentially rendering that weapon useless. Planetside 2 has given players the option to unlock Thermal Optics for many years and doesn't need to be removed only now. Please allow those who pilot vehicles the chance to enjoy Planetside 2 as it was meant to be.

BRING THEM BACK!

The problem is that Planetside 2 in the latter year+ have been completely "balanced" for infantry players that have never even been in a vehicle on planetside.
As for the change, i hate it, i do not condone it, its ******* stupid, but if its going to be like this they need to do 2 things. THREAT detection. Heavy class is a THREAT, because of lockons and such. Making them visible will hopefully balance out so people play other classes too. 2nd, they need to buff anti infantry weapons. When we cant easily see them, then the low dmg they have is ********.

We need someone who's willing to scream: "I will bring thermals back!"

While it would be funny, I'd prefer having the game designed by people who know what they are trying to do, how the game
works and how a change will influence things.

I'm a 100% certain that they put this "threat detection" into the game, put their virtual *** into an ESF or Lib, flew to a base with a 12/12 fight where no one was fighting back, noticed they could still kill stuff and said "This is fine".

I on the other hand am trying to fly bombing runs in fights WITH AA and having only 2 seconds to identify targets without the aid of thermals, point my nose at them (which can take quite some time) and kill them makes it really ******* hard to do.

This gives all the reason to change how AA and aircraft work in larger attacks, rather than ***** about thermals. Keeping thermals as-is means aircraft can stay OP as hell in small fights for no reason other than the few instances that aircraft join and participate in larger fights. And since these aircraft can farm almost without resistance in small-fights you know what most players will do.

What the game needs is reasons and ways for aircraft to participate in any size fight, and have enough incentives to join any size fight without preferring one over the other due to it being way easier in smaller fights.
Additionally we can remove the reliance on thermals to find targets by increasing the long-range awareness. For instance by showing spotted enemy unit concentrations on the map regardless of the range and updating it every minute or so, giving a general idea of the enemy presence so aircraft can target a group, but still need to identify the individual targets when they get close.

I don't care if he has any experience in game balance, I just want someone who will make thermals great again.

I don't really have the impression that the "change" (=******** substitution for a useful tool) affected small fights much - if you can leisurely hover around, you have the time to spot targets "conventionally".
I agree that we need changes to the A2G/G2A situation as a whole.
Ground needs a higher chance of killing swift, agile aircraft, but also needs to lose the ability to unconditionally hit by staring hard.
This will enable aircraft to take part in fights of any size, as long as they are skilled and smart enough.

Regarding the thermals - I like the idea that aircraft can see spotted targets from far greater range. I just think it should be in view too (with the dorito) and not only the map.
This makes spotting attack points a vital task for infantery.

How about changing thermals again, and let them show spotted enemies at range? Ofcourse it shouldnt be the giant neon "shoot this" sign we have/had now, but it should make it somewhat easier. For instance by using wire-frames that arent instantly visible.

That sounds reasonable - and the guy who did the spotting should get another bonus XP in addition to the normal "enemy spotted" since the sights would be useless without his help.

Hmm... that would make stalkers who invade bases to spot the biggest enemy conglomerations quite dangerous. I like it.

Banshee is not useless. I've had quite a few kills with it since the change, I just have to re-learn how to aim without the thermal advantage, and believe me, it was a hell of an advantage compared to nightvision or 2x. My problem with having no thermals for my Prowler is that I've used nothing but thermals for so long that I have to relearn how to aim at distance with 2x because the drop is not the same. Without thermals you have to be a little more selective with the fights you want to engage with, but a2g farming continues, although not quite at the same frantic pace (60 kills a day!) as before the nerf. My only regret is that I didn't catch on to the Banshee killing machine ages ago.

actually it is totally stupidly overpovver to have them in the air vehicles because a game has less definition than reality from a real planne going that fast you vvouldnt be able to see **** even vvith termals.

They didn't nerf rockets when tanks were nerfed, why would they nerf AA when air's been nerfed?
Assume makes, etc etc. Expecting the devs to do something you think is fair is the slowest route to disappointment mate.

I primarily fly Valkyrie. The Thermals are CRITICAL for my gunners. Getting talented gunners who are willing to put up with the lack of stabilization is challenging enough. On top of that, because I move around a lot (And stay alive much longer), they need quick target acquisition. Thermals offers this.

I also understand that Gal drivers run into a related challenge: They don't always have control over who's gunning what, and they prefer to have a baseline advantage for their often casual gunners, and when they do, they are rarely explicitly pursuing tanks. Instead, Gals use their guns to suppress infantry in a landing zone. Its designed to mess with massed infantry.

However, I can understand how thermals can turn ESFs and Liberators into farm machines.

Therefore, I feel I must once again step into this situation and be the voice of compromise:

I would propose that ESFs and Liberators would retain the "Threat Detection" optics with modifications: Specifically, as others have suggested, heavies will always be illuminated (Saving code trying to parse equipped lock-ons), and skyguards will have a bright red coloration to differentiate them from generic lightnings. This will enhance ESF/Liberator in the SEADs role.

Valkyries and Galaxies would revert to the old thermals.

The logic here is that doing so would attempt to balance ESF/Libs vs. ground, while retaining competitive edges - no more magic pop-up lock-on swarms.

Valks and Gals would retain their previous capabilities.

For those of you that require lore justifications: The ESFs have smaller powerplants, and the ESF was initially conceived as an interceptor, while the Lib was primarily intended to attack armor, therefore the optics are specially made to prioritize large solid metal pieces (Launcher tubes, tanks, MAXes).

The Valkyrie's secondary ISR role means that thermals make sense. The Galaxy, having the largest lift capacity and powerplant, can easily afford the weight and power demands of additional optics.

So you admit its critical for your gunner. However, you're fine with throwing everyone else under the bus. I don't need thermal to spot a tank, or the skyguard that is shooting at me or an ally. I do need it for infantry,however, because they do not render unless I'm near them, but they can still lock on to me at 450 meter and lower.

The only thing I can agree with you on is if the thermal actually highlight heavy with airlock, at least then you can say its an actual threat detection scope.

Also nothing is stopping a valk or gal from farming a 12v12 worst then a lib or ESF. If anything, your onboard repair crew and bottom armour gives you more staying power then all the other vehical if you are dedicated to farm a small fight.

The only deterrent needed against air was the 50% damage buff on the ranger. DBG only needed time for people to pick that tibbit up. Guess what the smart people are are pulling when they want air to die, not 2 skyguard but 1 ranger harrasser; because the ranger is stupidly strong right now. It can take down any amount of unorganized esf and can chase away anything but a good lib. Not to mention for 150nanites, you can literally chain pull a harraser and die every minute after pulling, even if you could only take down 1 esf every other life, thats a net gain by any standard.

After the recent patches, I realize DBG is aiming for a segregated game. So look for another game if you like vehicles/air because there is more to come. I would guess rocketpods is next on the chopping block or some new implant that would reduce the amount of splash damage just like flak amour would.

I will admit that I'm glad they nerfed thermals and yes, I'm primarily an infantry player with a little vehicles and a little flight.

That said, disclosure made, etc....

Planetside 2 is a combined arms game. We NEED infantry, vehicles and air to make it what it is. However, it's a combined arms game... you shouldn't be able to counter everything with everything. And so, I suggest this.....

I think nerfing ground thermals into the, well, ground was unnecessary, although I do think that their range was too long and should have been nerfed. Preferably something like bright yellow (<25m), pale yellow (25-50m), faint yellow shadow (50-100m), invisible (100m+). Tank primaries thermals shouldn't show infantry at all. A tank with an AI secondary, with thermal scopes SHOULD be virtually immune to C4 fairies. It should also, however, be vulnerable to engy AV turrets or long-range Heavy launchers. For that you need snipers. Or have an AI secondary with scope to take on the AV turrets and heavy RL's, and be more vulnerable to fairies. Or take an AA secondary and be more vulnerable to infantry but a bit protected against air. Etc. Etc. It's about choices and not being one-man-counter-everything-armies.

For air vehicles, I would propose the same system, and I would not be opposed to bringing back thermals on the assumption that A2G and G2A were better balanced. The current balance model is that G2A is a "deterrent" while A2G is ez-kill-farmside. Assuming you can fly better than a pregnant ostrich. Which I can't, but still.

The problem with G2A being a "deterrent" is that 1) most G2A is exclusive (i.e. you give up other, more useful things for it), 2) aircraft are too mobile and 3) the "counter" to air is only more air. G2A exclusivity is fine (see "choices" above), and aircraft mobility is fine (part of the definition, in fact), but A2G is too killy, and G2A is not killy enough and that's what's wrong with the whole equation.

I'm not going to lay out solutions to that problem, because dozens of them have been suggested time and again, and the l33t totally-all-skill A2G skywarrior air****ters just cry about all of them until DBG does nothing.

Only ESFs and Liberators. I don't have any problem with Battlegals.

Issue is, I don't have long range capable splash (Rocket Pods, Lib Belly guns). The best I get is the CAS14, which has a significant cone on it. I have to get really close and personal. The angular movements for my gunner dramatically change their FOV. The Valk itself has to be moving pretty heavily. As an actual gunship, I don't have the luxury of setting up complex runs and lining up passes. I have to be able to rapidly reposition, and my gunner needs to rapidly re-acquire. Otherwise I'm going to get a dumbfire in the face.

ESFs and Libs use thermals for maximizing their damage. Valks and Gals use them for faster target acquisition, I.E. what they were intended for.

So no, I don't think other airframes should be penalized over mis balances in two of them.

I agree you don't need thermals to spot a tank - but when you're at the skybox, picking out that one un-awares skyguard in a swarm of lightnings can be rather useful for setting up your first shot, no?

What a load of ABSOLUTE horsesheit!
I play vehicles alot...like, ALOT!
While the thermal was a nice thing to have, it was ridiculous. You did not have to think nor put any effort into farming infantry...AT...ALL! The thermal change is good, its a decent balance that separates the men from the boys. My regular gunner was back to his old farming habits after a 5 min adaptation to the new optics.
Highlighting infantry like that was a crutch for ****** players to be honest. The change is good, people have to drop their crutches and learn how to use their brain and eyes now, anticipate their enemy and use the terrain and surroundings accordingly. Yes, as an ESF things got harder. GOOD! Finally a "challenge" in the A2G farming. Now i can't hoover around like a god who decides who lives and who dies.

And seriously OP.... Banshee is bad? After the change it's absolutely BEAST! It is the best A2G gun in the game. If you can't get it to work, you need to work on your aiming. Or maybe you are one of those who rely solely on splash.....

Bring em back and stop pandering to the ground babies this has been in the game for years and they fixed it by adding more AA lockons to fight off ground farmers but but but ground babies dont understand combind arms meaning they need peeple to give them cover or use time on a aa platform or even carry a burst max just one burst will make any aircraft **** off for awhile,

The devs took the easy way instent of lets say making heat signals from inf smaller so they dont show off as easy, or making the range of IR, even sorter or even, adding a whole new cent tree like a heat shield that would make your heat signture smaller until the final rank 4 where you would no longer show off on IR sights ofc this would mean you be forced to chose shields but its fair like how pilots ar forced to driffent moduels to make them good at somthing ground or air stealth or repair flairs or scout radar

They didn't nerf rockets because rockets are in a sorry weak state already, at least I hope that was the reason.

And your assumption that the current dev team won't do something that you think is fair (or unfair) is just pure fearmongering.