Bring back the old resource system, or FIX this one

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by MisterBond, Aug 5, 2014.

  1. Crator

    Yeah, cause there's only one way to skin a cat... :rolleyes: And explain to me how the hell are you completely screwing yourself? So the platoon members need to hold off on spamming things that take from their resource pool for a little while until they have enough to get what is needed. Honestly, it doesn't take that long to replenish resources. Especially now since it's a constant tick rate and not tied to if you own a specific locations that you own...
    • Up x 1
  2. DQCraze

    So what exactly are we winning? Killing someone that respawns 5 sec later? Let's be real here, that high you get from killing someone lasts what, .0023 secs? This is an endless war you gain nothing more then convenience by buying boosts. If you really think anyone cares about how well or not well you are doing you are delusional.
    • Up x 1
  3. FateJH

    The prerequisite level was Combat Engineering (Engineering certification + Combat Engineering certification, or 3 certs + 2 certs). It allowed a player to place 20 proximity mines, 15 spitfire turrets, 20 motion detectors, and 20 remote controlled explosives. Not counted amongst that are fixed number deployables like shadow and cerebus turrets and sensor disruptors. The next level above it, Fortification Engineering, added five to each of those categories that I enumerated for 3 certs more, for maxes of 25/20/25/25 deployables.
    For new players, that could cut into weapon certifications and vehicle certifications for things that were mainly useful for defensive play.

    Most people seem to be operating from the assumption that whenever someone did X, they profitted from X for the best average possible time that X allows a person to profit. I feel very out of place, in this kind of environment, for believing that a player can do poorly at things.

    Regardless, in a closed system, a person with a Boost or Subscription earned more certs, even if both he and a F2P player managed to get the same performance from the tank, which also gave him more certs to put into the tank's Acquisition Timer. Since "reduced downtime" is being considered one of the outcomes of P2W, then this by definition is a P2W advantage over the player who didn't earn as much experience with the same amount of performance from the tank. Not only is the person with Boost or Subscription earning more resources by which the price of the tank will be achieved more quickly, that player would also spend less time before he had the capability to spawn the next tank. Ignoring F2P or P2W labels altogether, if either player wanted to max out the cooldown timer, and they did that, it was never a factor to begin with, and the flow of resources was the real factor that decided when something could be pulled since that changed based on the playing field.

    Outside of this hypothetical closed circuit of tanking, leaving the Acquisition Timer behind, a player with Boosts and Subscriptions could still go on Infantry consumerable spamming sprees much more consistently under the old system, in essense because they can spend and stockpile much quicker than a pure F2P player. Essentially, he could buy some resources as an investment to future sprees and some for current use, and trecoup the costs quickly. Without the ability to stockpile and with all resources put into one category, any sprees now have to be moderated for the "now" or the "later," not both, not without consequences anyway, even with accelerated resource growth.

    The condensation of resources into one category rather than three split between different purchasing categories also means the person who earns resources faster can't waste one thing, immediately pull something else (of a different category, and then pull something of the third category, without either of the first two purchases impacting it. Once again, this is a case of where rate from "P2W" is the benefit over "F2P" progression. The pace is actually slowed for the boosted/subscribed player now because quick rotation is no longer as viable.

    The most important benefit is the reduced downtime for the impoverished faction. They can field defenses at bases more consistently even if they suffer previous losses, and this improves enjoyment of the game by increasing the chances of even engagement.

    I type a lot but I'm trying to convey that things have actually gotten better. We have brought people with accelerated resource income and people with normal resource income closer together and, in any place we have not explicitly, the players who used normal resource growth did not lose ground to the people with accelerated resource growth. I mention positive feedback loops a lot too because that's one of the big improvements that has been made (the removal of them).

    That's why you have Infantry, one of the most adaptable playstyles even before you have to invest any kind of resources into it. You can be Infantry at any time without an upfront cost and engage ever sort of target through finesse.
    • Up x 2
  4. Copasetic

    I think a lot of you are forgetting that this is only the first step in the new resource system. Among other things the constant resource generation isn't going to stay that way forever, SOE already has plans to tie it into nearby bases.
    • Up x 2
  5. JesNC

    So I'm a champ now, huh?

    You see, the problem you are describing here specifically is one of playing together, alone. Because even if what you claimed was true and the individual player lost his adaptability due to resource constraints (Which I couldn't observe during my 6 hrs or so of gameplay post patch), your squad/platoon should still be able to adapt fluidly to any given situation.

    But if your squad/platoon composition is so over-specialized that even that fails you probably deserved to lose that fight.
  6. NeonNoodle

    Oh know I have to make decisions!
    I didn't understand the point of the old resource system at all. There was never a time (faction winning or losing horribly) where I worried about spending resources on anything. It actually made me wonder why they even bothered with it.
    • Up x 1
  7. Titan6

    1. I wasn't complaining about spawn camping
    2. I never asked vehicles to be nerfed.

    Never even mentioned the current vehicle nerfs.
    I even mentioned that they might even get buffed later down the line once they stop being spammed. So please, spare me.
  8. Revanmug

    That's actually false for simple reason : The removal of Ressource per XP and stocking. By fighting on an infantry base, you could fairly easily stock up, even when using consumables if you are a decent player.

    Now here is the catch. A sub member could do the same but would get soo much ressources that they would get wasted, making the difference from boosted to not boosted pretty minimal if non-existent, assuming the f2p player actually knew how to play.
  9. Degenatron

    1. This was a bad analogy that has been stretched past the breaking point. It doesn't even come close to describing the resource model. It was just a desperate attempt to bring resource points "into the fight". I'm sorry I ever entertained it in the first place.

    2. Wait, "Player B and all of his friends"? So everyone on Player B's team is a "Free Player"? Tell me, which empire prohibits subs from joining? The reality is that Player B's habit of burning p all of his resources is his problem alone. There are plenty of people in his empire that sub, just like Player A.

    3. If your choices boil down to a binary function of "hide behind the spawn shield" or "charge headlong into a field with a knife to attack a tank", well then there's your missing too much for me to fill you in on these forums. I'll just say, "there are other options".

    4. It doesn't change the first fight because resources don't play a role in the fight. If it effects the second fight, it's only in the options Player B has, not whether they'll win or not. Player B is not going to have any problem at all if he's the better tank driver. He'll dispatch Player A's tank, and his second tank too.

    5. You specifically use an example that gives one player an advantage over the other IN THE FIGHT. NW5 directly helps the vet. Resource points don't directly help the subbed players. A free player can just as easily dispatch the subbed players tank with their own. If the subbed player gets beaten, the they have THE LUXURY of pulling another more quickly - but that's all it is - a luxury. It's not going to be a BETTER tank. The subbed player is just as likely to get beat again.

    6. I'd say discuss it based on the facts, not far-fetched hypoteticals that will never happen.
    • Up x 1
  10. TraatAdmiral

    This is straying increasingly far from the fundamental point. Does having more resources give you more grenades and C4 to throw at the enemy? Yes, it does. Does that give you an advantage over someone who can't do that? Yes, it does. You're trying to argue semantics with things like 'in the fight', but ultimately what it comes down to is letting someone who has paid money do something that someone who has not paid money cannot. That isn't fair.
  11. Quikloc007

    I'm a member and to be honest I have not seen too much of a change in availability of resources. If you play for about 10 minutes as infantry you get enough to pull a max or a tank. You just can't play like fool running head long into a zerg of bad guys. Besides, this is the first step to more changes to come. :)
    • Up x 1
  12. MajiinBuu

    If you want to save up resources for a vehicle, uncheck "resupply automatically" for you're infantry tools, resist the temptation to spam everything everywhere
    • Up x 3
  13. Allin

    I think new system is a great IDEA but:
    Having resource generation not tied to zones is just plain stupid. I've heard it is possible it will get introduced, and that would be great.
    There is no reason for tactical strikes to cut off land from the warpgate, there is no strategy to be had other just "push up".
    I have no problems with max or vehicle spam, every one can do it, so it's fine. Let's people play more actively.
  14. MorganM

    Reading the patch notes I was skeptical... prices on things like MAX suit and MBTs were still high and now have to be drawn from a single resource pool. A little disjointedness some strategy was removed; I actually used the map to fight at bases that gave me bonuses to resources. Usually infantry as I use a lot of them. When I first logged in I was stunned by the extreme limitations on consumables.

    After playing a few hours last night and a few more today... I don't even notice the change. I can basically pull whatever I want whenever I want to use it. Only change to my play style I've noticed is that I don't waste consumables and vehicles. I don't pull an ESF just to fly somewhere or a gal just cuz I have a bunch of resources I won't use any time soon. I don't throw frags around like I don't care; they rarely ever got me a kill anyways.

    I still eat medkits, conc. grenades, claymores, and tank mines like they are going out of style. I pull other vehicles I like to use just as frequently. I pull flashes even more frequently given how cheap they are. I pull MAX suits more frequently now.

    All in all... not a bad change from my perspective.
  15. WTSherman

    I've yet to ever run out of resources on the new system, and I'm a free player. Then again, I was never in the habit of rotating chain-pulls through all three categories.

    Really, if your platoon calls for a mass armor pull and you don't have enough resources for an MBT then pull a repair sundy (which takes just 4 minutes to get resources for, and TBH I don't see how you would have got below 200 in the first place).

    Your platoon will have no problem with that because you'll be making all the tanks around you incredibly hard to kill. It will rain certs. You will likely stay alive long enough to completely cap out your resources.

    If you don't have many certs invested in sundies then pull a rank 1 ammo sundy instead (because the ammo sundy is at full strength at rank 1, the extra range from later ranks is nice but not vital). Your platoon will have no problem with that because you're giving their tanks infinite ammo. It will rain certs, and you will likely stay alive long enough to completely cap out your resources.

    Seriously I made over 300 certs yesterday doing ammo and repairs on my TR alt. It was ridiculous. No sub, no boosts, though I did participate in two alerts.
  16. MasterCheef

    Im more tempted now to cert out my max now that i can reliably pull it.

    With the old system, i always chose stacking consumables over pulling a Max. Now that i cant stack, i dont feel as torn when deciding to pull a Max.

    This is good for me, but lets see if this leads to a too many Max's running around.
  17. Lamat

    Resources seem a bit too abundant honestly, I can't seem to run out of resources. I can chain pull anything I want. If you're not a complete goof, it's endless, even if you are half a goof there is plenty room for mistakes.

    Although it was nice to play Reaver all day :p

    I suppose once phase 2 comes, that will change though.
    • Up x 2
  18. JackD

    I like the new system. If you are dedicated to something like flying or tanking you dont have downtimes. The rate at which you gain nanites is pretty fast. Its a sad that the rate isnt bound to capturing or defending bases as planed, but maybe it will come later.

    The prices for Sundys and Harassers is a bit to cheap. You can pull one Harasser after the other.
  19. SkyEstaLimit

    Im F2P and I think 50 res/min is too much. They should lower it to maybe 25-30 and lower a bit the consumables nearly in half and the vehicules would be about right.

    Ok im pretty bad at ESF, i get mauled, bad. So I pulled one, 1 min later saw a few reaver, tried to be careful, brrrt pow dead. That was about 2 mins ? Oh well, no timers, lets pull another one ! Let get some reaver payback ! Brrrt pow dead. That was another 1-2 mins, tops ! Ok im at 200 res now i cant pull an ESF, lets pull a lightning (about 0 res now). Drive abit, oh look reavers ! podpodpodpodpod dead. Heh not my night. Lets instant action. Hotdrop o'clock ! Pew pew some nc ! Pew pew some more ! Get pew'd dead. Hey look at that I can pull another ESF ! Boom dead ! Hey another lighting ! Boom dead ! Ok how about a fla-boom-dead.

    It felt like i was pulling vehicules almost non stop without much issues. At most I had to play a life of infantry to be able to pull another vehicule. They are way too easy to pull and yesterday felt like there was even more than usual. It's pretty much a no brainer pull a vehicule and go fight, if you are one of those no-lifers BR 500 that made me rage last night well you sit on 750 res pretty much non stop. I was more or less getting farmed and i could keep going.

    I'd be happy if they lower the rate of resources, it would feel more like a decision than a i must burn my res lets go tanking. Either way i think the new system is fine as it is, the no timer is pretty cool if you want 1 type of vehicule only.
  20. MasterCheef

    this is why im surprised people are complaining. I seem to be able to do MORE now than before. This system is very generous.

    This definitely wont last. I expect some changes when they finish the revamp. its just a little too good right now.
    • Up x 1