[Suggestion] BFRs need to re-exist

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by AntDX316, Jul 22, 2022.

  1. AntDX316

    Battle Frame Robotics need to exist and can Easily be balanced with anti-BFR weapons. They need to be big enough.

    They were not super OP in Battlefield 2142 or even in Planetside 1.

    Take a look at how Mechwarrior is. I'm not sure if there should be faction specific BFRs but it would be cool. Using the Planetside 1 BFRs as the example to model from is what to do imo.

    The game still has a lot of potential. Even bringing back LLUs (Lattice Logic Unit) and instantly banning people who teleport hack would be cool to have. LLUs should only be ground transport only. It could add a whole nother dimension to the gameplay in a fun way in which it has in Planetside 1.

    A lot of the fights become stale so adding these into the mix would make it better.

    There can be BFR variants of course:

    Having the torso turn to move around like a tank I think is how to make them move properly but I think they can leg split like humans do of course. Still though, the movement animation should look realistic. They only move when pushing off the ground and/or using thrusters.

    This could be good to look at too.

    • Up x 1
  2. RRRIV

    i think infantry-armor interactions need to improve before we consider new land based vehicles. If such were to occur, then yes, i would like to see mechs.
    • Up x 4
  3. TR5L4Y3R

    no they don´t, aside from coolness- and noveltyfactor what would be their role other vehicles don´t already cover?

    considering the current ground to air and vehicle vs infantry balance i currently am VERY skeptical about RPG´s capabilities and willingess to do so ..

    Mechwarrior for one is primarily about more detailed and more costumisable mech to mech combat and is vastly different from planetside´s vehiclecombat, what exactly should they look at here?
    differences between inner sphere and clan tech mechs and weapons? Mechchassis? how they look?
    you are way too general with your suggestion ..
    • Up x 1
  4. Shatteredstar

    I liked BFRs back in the day. Certainly easier to solo something like that in PS1 with the old style EMP grenades too! Was good times surprising them as a dedicated infantry and killing it.

    I don't think PS2's map design other than MAYBE indar and esamir might support them well though.

    As for balancing...theres already enough infantry vs air and ground issues that adding more would probably cause problems.
    • Up x 1
  5. VV4LL3

    Great idea, but considering the extreme lack of development for NSO, Vessels, Oshur, etc... I can't endorse more new stuff without DBG's able to demonstrate they can complete a project for primetime with minimal bugs & proper balance.
  6. Demigan

    Like the Slayer says, the PS1 BFR's wouldnt have a proper role within PS2's lineup of vehicles. Also like he says the infantry would be even more beaten to death than they already are. But we can assume they get the weapons they need (and deserve) to go up against vehicles (seriously just add more nanite-costing AV/AA utilities!).

    There are ways to add walkers into PS2 though. Rather than "a 1-person superior MBT that walks" it could easily have a unique role and toolset.

    The Heavy MAX (HMAX) is the simplest idea. The MAX is mostly infantry in how it operates with vehicle influences, the Heavy MAX would be mostly vehicle with infantry infuences.

    - Imagine a walker the height of a Sunderer.
    - It can walk up and down hills like infantry without its aim going up and down.
    - it can move into most bases as long as it remains outside of the buildings (jumping and possibly limited movement abilities would help with this)
    - it's weapon elevation is as high and low as infantry
    - it has armor and health closer to the old Harasser but lacks the ability to instantly escape, making small-arms and infantry AV a greater threat
    - can sprint and can reach high speeds when doing so, but the weapon is inactive and both the speeding up and slowing down take time (say 1 second to start sprinting and 5 seconds to reach max speed, 2 seconds to slow down and be able to fire again).
    - it CANNOT crush infantry under its feet, unless very well regulated.

    For weapons I think they should be designed as the most basically available AA on the battlefield, making most weapons they carry capable of hitting aircraft in a skillful manner and rewarding that skill with a good kill potential.

    - one main weapon carried, additional weapons holstered and can be switched to
    - basic weapon sets would be auto-canons like the Saron/Enforcer/Viper idea. Single shots matter and higher ROF's trade DPS for accuracy.
    - as extra weapons you can focus on more specialized skirmishing potential. Such as grenade launchers to have a relatively high CQC DPS against vehicles and rocket/missile launchers of various sizes.

    This would make it a vehicle that can move along and support infantry, or it could move along and support vehicles against infantry and aircraft. It would be too vulnerable in open field combat to act alone but would have the best ability where cover is available, while simultaneously having more chance of being surprised and hit hard in CQC.
    • Up x 3
  7. VV4LL3


    That would mean regular MAXes would require a rework to be akin to light infantry in contrast to the HMAX.

    Key concepts to compensate for the vastly increased performance requested for the HMAX:

    -Baseline increase MAX speed 80-90% of infantry.
    -Reduce nanite cost
    -increase utility/ interactions
  8. Demigan

    Why exactly would it need that? The HMAX would be a vehicle you can enter and exit. While there is some overlap the way it is used is unique compared to the MAX.

    The MAX is badly balanced anyway. Its high effective health against small-arms mean it needs some strong downsides, like slower speed and limited accuracy on its dual weapons. The HMAX wouldnt replace the MAX especially considering how and why the MAX is used. They would rarely be in the same spots, as MAX's prefer indoors where there is less chance of C4 throws and leaving a base isnt something you do with the MAX. So there isnt a reason to change the MAX just for the HMAX existing.

    if you are going to change the MAX, here are my recomendations:
    - lower effective health against small-arms
    - can survive 1 C4 as vanilla MAX with say 10% health left (you can now finish it off with small-arms if you survive long enough)
    - walks and sprints as fast as regular infantry, but has a longer time needed to reach max speeds (lets say 0.5 seconds for max walking speed and 1 second if you then start sprinting).
    - double-tapping sprint key will activate travel mode to compensate for fewer vehicles that can transport it. Lower turn speed but higher run speed.
    - nanite cost back to 200
    • Up x 1
  9. TR5L4Y3R

    see this sounds already too much like the current MAX ... instead of just adding ANOTHER platform with compareably slight changes the MAXsuit should be the platform that bridges outside combat against vehicles and aircraft to insidecombat with infantry .. i´d rather have the MAX finally be the Squad- and Vehiclesupport platform it shoud have been from the beginning were vehicles like MBTs and sunderers are the MAX´s cover ... and imho that doesn´t require many changes ... a couple additions maybe like passive or active abillites (radar, shieldregen, ammorefill, passiv vehicle repair just as examples) yes but but the rest would be just statchanges ..

    buff it´s surviveability against vehicles buff its AV and AA (as should AA in general anyway), decrease AI capability while keeping its meatshielding capability
  10. Demigan

    I dont think the HMAX is as similar as the regular MAX even if you did make them have similar weapons and abilities. Because the HMAX would let you enter and exit it for its own repairs, cannot be revived (!) and it would be designed far more for outside as that is where it can move more easily since it cant enter buildings (except a few). MAX's would then bridge the last piece, where infantry can bring that firepower into structures but also have access to them when the vehicle pad is unavailable. In a Venn diagram they would have an overlap but still be unique in their role.
    That would make the MAX and HMAX complementary to one another, rather than competition.

    A more extreme example would be the Lightning and the MBT. these are far more similar in where they operate and what they are designed to engage, but due to their differences in shape, weapons, size, capabilities, cost and crew complement they are still unique enough for players to pull both. The HMAX and MAX would differ more even if you gave them access to the exact same abilities and weapon sets (scaled in damage and magazine size to their respective size).

    I understand where you are coming from but I think that having both would be superior to having just the MAX overhauled. Its definitely better than wasting time on water-based combat and vehicles that is only available on one continent and will require other continents to be time-consumingly altered specifically to make it useable there!
    • Up x 1
  11. Baneblade

    The main problem with BFRs in PS1 were the way the Jumper and Gunner versions were obscenely overpowered. They never should've existed. The normal ones were pretty well balanced. Then they removed the normal one and kept the two that were killing the game, but gave them crazy weaknesses that only make sense in a conference room. So BFRs became the niche vehicle that could still dominate in the right scenario, mainly open field battles, but were suicide for anything else.

    I'm not opposed to seeing them come back, but I think they should only be for NSO use and be roughly as capable in a stand up fight as a Colossus.
  12. AntDX316

    The high-profile of the BFRs and adding some "Weakpoints" on the back to make them die faster, while costing probably 15-20 purple outfit resources to pull will make it ultra balanced. In fact it should cost less. As long as they can't kill things like 2000m away it will work.

    Just adding some Mechwarriors into the game like Battlefield 2142 and Planetside 1 would not make fights OP. I've been playing this and many other FPS games and it will Not be OP. It would even be simple as changing the damage and HP variables on a quick update too.

    Once a few more additions happen to the game, it will be hard to have people play anything else. I hardly play anything else other than this game anymore. Planetside 1 battles were legendary.
  13. TR5L4Y3R

    the game doesn´t need that many more additions, it primarily needs adjustments and tweaks to content it already has ..

    yea oshur as neat as it is didn´t realy need to be a thing (they still need to add NCZs to cortiumsspawns because screw builders blocking them) .. but eh ...
    as for the HMAX idea ... i don´t know, i´m just not really sold on it ... it may work out as a sort of mobile defenseplattform that can navigate terrain around bases better than vehicles ( .. but then again so could the regular max ...)

    regarding MBTs and lightnings, personaly as being more of a loner support player i just pull the lighting for pretty much anything ...
    i don´t see me investing certs or nanites into a mbt, maybe the new ES mainturrets may change that but to me there isn´t that much the lightning is laking over the MBT really ...
  14. AntDX316

    The game could use more additions. It just takes an idea and developing for that idea. The issue would be balance but that can Easily be balanced. The issue would then be performance on the servers and it's cost which of course unless you are part of the developers, we have no idea. I'm conceptually suggesting but as for what it takes to make it happen I have no idea.
  15. TR5L4Y3R

    could the game use more additions? sure .. these additions however NEED a purpose, not been thrown in willy nilly just because "it would be cool"
    speaking bout balance ... it is still TOTALY OUT OF WACK .. and this is the primary reason for me to ask RPG to fix said out of wack balance before adding further stuff ... in fact the content they already have could be distributed across plattforms and be balanced to as such allow more varied and viable styles that is not just primarily the case with infantry
    as example, they could EASILY (imo) take MBT and Valkyre turrets and make them available to every vehicle and aircraft that has these turretsockets ... BAMM ... MUCH more options and more empire represtantion on those platforms ...
    why NOT have an ANT with a Pelter turret? why not have Valkyrie or Galaxy with a Saron or Gatekeeper (or the recent ES Basilisk-likes)? .. gatekeeper not a good weapon? then BUFF IT ! ...

    another way would be to add vehicle grenades to all infantry but light assault (heck maybe LA aswell actualy) and give Infills and Medics access to Rockletrifles (maybe even AM rifles to the latter) as primary, BAMM more AV options with content that already exists ...
  16. JibbaJabba

    FANTASTIC! This is it boys! This is the idea that finally gets us Planetside 3! We just re-use the formula that got us Planetside 2:

    Step 1: Introduce absolute death machine into a primarily infantry game thereby wrecking balance.
    Step 2: Half the game population quits in frustration. The other half rubs their hands waiting to get one.
    Step 3: Limit the damage by making the thing really hard to access.
    Step 4: Half those remaining waiting to get one now quit too.
    Step 5: Start working on the next title because you ruined this one.
  17. Nogrim313

    im going to assume the original intent is not just to troll and provoke rage at the idea of restoring the old BFR's the problem with walkers is the height advantage the afford, with all the effort to screen vehicles out of infantry areas, adding a robot that just stands above all of those walls and massacres infantry would immediately undo all of that work.

    if you want them to be anti-tank well there simply is no cover available to them, most of the rocks and ridges tanks hide behind are not large enough to obscure big tall walker, and unless you want to make walkers run over 45 kph, which will look ridiculous trying to animate. then they are going to be sitting ducks in the open.

    really the only other niche is making them Heavy anti-air (which otherwise would also be massacring them because they cant hide under trees)

    so your pretty much limiting them to that Heavy anti-air role, something like a beefier skyguard. which then just makes you ask why not just buff the skyguard?

    BFR and frankly big mechs just dont make sense on the battlefield and Max suits are basically just the smaller version of what you want.

    if you want a big walker, maybe add it to the outfit superweapons rotation?

    carrier + colossus + walker. it could target carriers, and become the new target for the colossus.
  18. AntDX316

    Even Starwars Battlefront has Walkers.

    In Planetside 1 whoever hasn't played it, I think you had to activate run-mode to move faster otherwise you walk. It might not be good in Planetside 2 as people can AFK and leave it on but then it would just get destroyed.

    As long as they don't have tons of HP they will be balanced if not a trap as they might die very fast.
  19. AntDX316


    It doesn't have to talk a lot of brain power to try to figure out how to make it balanced. A harasser shows up to a 24 infantry group without much explosives and everybody dies because they got ran over and shot. A liberator shows up to some ground armor with no anti-air. A Max goes against 3 people with C4 explosives and it dies instantly. A Max gets headshotted by the AMR weapons and dies in 2-3 hits. BFRs should be costly enough but not too costly.

    Probably 5 purple each but even then.. it might cost too much. 25 Blue and 2 purple Outfit Resources to start and see how it goes.
  20. MuNrOe

    Hey Ant man.

    Yep BFR's would be cool just buff all tanks health to 2x their current health pool. I find most of the armour engaguements are over too fast and infantry kill them way too quick. Tanks should feel confident pushing into infantry knowing their not going to get instagibbed. Planetside 1 tanks were beaten by other tanks that or an entire army with lock ons/CE mine fields or Aircraft. You fell back and pulled armour to clear things out.

    Tho in planetside 1 the tanks never played part in the infantry combat their role was the securing of the courtyard closing into a base to begin taking it. After that everything went to infantry routers ams ect ect.

    If they were to make BFR's happen they would need to change a heap of the current game mechanics and TBH I dont even think they have a clue how to rebuild bases around infantry combat.

    That or release an exact map of Cyssor from the original game with the same base designs from planetside 1 with acess to BFR's.

    I can only hope for a day like this really wanted planetside 1 to be remade but just have to make do with what we have now. Even if it is hot garbage in comparison.