Been playing a long time and a couple things irk me

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Penn Ace, Apr 5, 2020.

  1. Penn Ace

    I am a long time PS1 and PS2 player. I want to know why kills have not been fixed. For instance, I am in a tank, it has amazing heavy damage whether it is a lightning with AP or anything. I shoot a target 5-12 times doing 1000s of points of damage someone/anyone sitting watching my fight waits till the target is about to blow up then tags it cheating me of the kill. Why can you not make the person who gets credit for the kill the one who does the largest amount of damage to it. It has always bothered me this hasn't had a remedy. Just because you get the finishing blow doesn't really mean you got the kill. It should be a far less awarded feature for finishing blow versus dealing all the damage to a target. I think it is just plain rotten when someone tags my target as my weapon recharges to deprive me of my hard earned kills. Granted I could run around stealing peoples kills too. I am not going to. This is just one pet peeve. Second, problem I see with the game that has not been addressed is weapon damage. Do they not do weapon tests to see how a level 9 can best a player who has 1000+ rating and has most of his weapons tricked out if they are on a different faction. Dying in a second versus a full set of rounds or more. Third, the flying C-4 throwing creeps who can knock out a tank in one easy lob versus 5 tank mines placed under a vehicle which doesn't blow up the target. Does anyone see a problem with that? I personally think that light assaults who want to fly in and drop a bit of c4 should have to place it set it run away and detonate it. This may require multiple sets of c-4 to blow up a target. One piece of C-4 shouldn't blow up a vanguard with max armour My engineer has to run up place 5 mines most of the time and then throw a grenade to ignite the mines all while walking up to the target, no flying involved and many times this is not enough yet in my lightning or vanguard I get blown up by one piece of c-4 I don't get it.
    • Up x 1
  2. NotziMad

    well, look at it this way.

    If your friend Bob, while walking home late at night from the club, gets mugged, jumped on by a bunch of thieves who beat him almost to death and then run off with his money.

    If your friend Bob is then laying there in the middle of the road, passed out, all bruised and bleeding to death.

    And if a young driver in his dad's car, just got his silence, he's studying to become a monk because he believes in love and peace and he really hates violence. But if this kid doesn't see Bob dying on the floor and runs him over, the fact of the matter is, the police report wouldn't say it's the thieves that killed him.

    Would it?

    Bob died by being run over by a peaceful caring gentle monk who wouldn't hurt a fly.

    edit -> one piece of c4 doesn't blow up a vanguard with or without max armour. Also, I may be wrong, but I think that two pieces of c4 wouldn't blow up a vanguard with max armour. (not sure about that last one)
    • Up x 1
  3. Demigan

    The person with the last shot gets the kill. This is a relatively smart step as the target could have escaped or killed the one who damaged him so that person gets rewarded for it and you get an assist.

    However this should change when the last shot is dealt while you are still aiming for the target. If you deal 70% or so against a target and someone else swoops in while you are still dealing damage and/or have the target in sight you should get credited for the kill.

    Two additions to that:
    1. any driver/gunner/passenger kills made by the killstealer should also be counted to you. Its ridiculous that you can deal 99% damage to a 2/2 MBT and then only get assist XP for the vehicle and not the two extreme menace kills inside.

    2. Assist XP should count as partial kills. Getting 4x 75% assist kills would count as 3 kills that way. It would solve problems for weapons that need farming to get auraxed like rocketlaunchers and also encourage people less to killsteal and focus on dealing damage.
    • Up x 3
  4. Den

    On the point of kill credit, I've noticed several recent games (such as Mordhau) have been going with an effective and very simple implementation.
    Both the player who deals the killing blow and the player(s) who dealt the most damage each get credit for the kill. The guy who comes in swinging at the last second gets to join in while the guy who did most of the work also gets what they both worked for. Only if the target gets away and recovers to full health, the credit resets.
    • Up x 2
  5. Twin Suns

    I love it when someone screams you stole my kill. It just reinforces that....their so-called skilll let them down. As far as sharing kills, well that just tells me that some Devs are a part of the "trophy for participating generation". Just like replacing the word kills with eliminations. LMFAO.

    Sometimes you just have to harden the eff up. It's called perseverance or determination. Sometimes the only way to succeed is by failing. It's a great motivator.

    o7
  6. Demigan

    You are the problem in this case.

    Especially in vehicle combat this only rewards ****** behaviour. Vehicles have clearly defined downtimes between their firing cycle and it is possible to gauge about how much damage is required to finish off an opponent. So when you see someone engaging an enemy tank you are encouraged to hold your fire when the target is almost dead and wait until it receives that second-to-last shot, giving your "ally" the time to finish off the target while you are reloading. It is quite literally a trophy for participating... For the guy who's doing the killsteal. While 99% of the work can be done by the person who deserves the kill(s) and who actually took the risks and did the skillful combat to whittle down the enemy.

    But I'm really interested, how am I going to harden the eff up and show perseverance and determination when I've just shown all that in order to finish off my opponent, and then just before I can get rewarded for all my efforts mister ********* comes along and says "nope I'll take all your rewards simply for holding my fire rather than supporting my team". My only chance to get the reward in that situation is to hold fire and wait for my ****** ally to fire. Unfortunately 99% of the time this happens it is me that is being attacked, and my ally can simply wait for me to die and then fire two shots instead of one or he can wait for me to fire that second-to-last shot.


    I hate these mopy fcktwats that just go "naaaaah participation trophy generation!" whenever they see something they don't seem to understand immediately and then misuse acronyms "LMFAO". Just because something is more fair does not mean it is a participation trophy system!

    In fact if you are so against participation trophies shouldn't you be screaming murder against anyone who just swoops in at the last second and obviously steals your kills? Those are the participation-trophy guys who are encouraged to do exactly that kind of behaviour! You should be asking for the kill to be fully rewarded to the player who did most of the work (assuming he has a decent chance to finish off the target) and the person who did the last bit of damage to get just an assist.
    Ofcourse that would be too much thought about something as "complex" as a good reward system.
    • Up x 3
  7. Twin Suns

    meh...like I said "armadillo skin".
  8. Demigan

    Ignorance and thick skin are not the same thing.

    Brushing off an opposing argument by ignoring most of it is also a sign of weakness. And thick skinned or not, weakness remains weakness.
    • Up x 2
  9. That_One_Kane_Guy

    Personally, since KDR is pretty pointless in this game I feel as long as you get amply rewarded in points/certs for an assist on a vehicle kill it should be fine. Some games have an assist-counts-as-kill mechanic for kill assists over ~90% or so, so if you really want that "Kill" stat there's that option as well. In the grand scheme of things you will ninja kills from people just as often as you get ninja'd, so it's a wash either way.

    I don't understand your problem. A level 9 is perfectly capable of killing a 1000-hour player, and most weapons kill in much less than a second.

    Can't comment too much on your last since I don't tank. Although to my knowledge 1 C4 has never been enough to kill an MBT, and I'd be surprised to learn if an MBT could laugh off 5 AT mines.
    • Up x 1
  10. Twin Suns

    meh...like I said "armadillo skin".

    o7
  11. Liewec123

    Yeah the kill credit thing bugs me too.
    I have a character called "rockets" who I'm trying to make the first person ever to unlock Kraken
    (LEGITIMATLTY) without a single kill or bullet from anything other than a rocket launcher,
    iv been playing her on and off for about a year and im still a looooong way off
    because no matter the thousands of vehicles i've practically solo'd (or done most dmg too)
    invariably someone sees a burning vehicle and finishes it off.

    This is why we have people sitting in amp stations shooting empty turrets.
    I don't think there is a single person with Kraken who didn't need to cheese their way to obtaining it purely because of how crappy
    "Last hit gets credit" is when you need over 5000 kills with weapons that have 1 shot and 5 second reloads.
    In an mmo fps you can guarantee someone else will get the kill in those 5 seconds.
    • Up x 2
  12. Johannes Kaiser

    And remember there is not just intentional killstealing, but also people who just shoot at the same target but are late to the party (by arriving only just then, or having targeted someone else before). Especially in big fights this happens a lot. And those are cases where both should be given something. The main damage dealer who might as well have won this on their own as well as the person who came in to help. Wish there was a way to determine oif someone deliberately held off until the last hit or joined in as soon as possible and give little to no reward to the former.
    • Up x 2
  13. ZDarkShadowsZ

    Apologies if these have already been said.

    I understand your problem. It can be very frustrating at times when I've spent ages weakening a target, only for someone to take credit. For me it's not really about the XP, certs, or whether it contributes to my directives or not, it's the fact I put time into doing it and then it gets stolen. That being said, I fully admit I have done it too, and continue to do it. It's just something that happens in the game and while again, it can be frustrating when it happens, it isn't really that big of a deal to me.

    I'd also like to point out that a BR9 easily has the potential to kill a player with 1000+ directive score, as another player with 1000+ score has. Directive score can help indicate how long a players has been playing for, how many auraxiums they have.. and so on... but it is not always a measure of a well-playing individual. For example, there is a player on Cobalt whom I've seen since before the Ceres-Cobalt merge. They've got a lot of play time, they've racked up a decent amount of directive score... but they play like crap. A BR 9 could easily overwhelm them.

    Analysing a player's K/D ratio, favoured weapon/vehicle used, and so on, isn't always a measure of a well-playing individual either. Another example being another player on Cobalt who spends the majority of their time flying a Reaver and sometimes tanks in a Vanguard. Yes they are a good pilot and a reasonably decent tanker. They have over 10 K/D. In one aspect it could be said that they must be a well-playing individual because they genuinely are good at flying and know all the tricks in the book, and they may be a decent tanker which significantly contributes to their score. However, they're someone who bails from their vehicles at the last second to avoid being killed, and never play in infantry combat, which is prone to being killed more frequently.

    All in all, directive score, K/D... they can be an indicator of a well-playing individual, but it doesn't mean they are. That good pilot doesn't always make a good heavy, and may be why a BR 9 can overpower them.

    Finally, it doesn't take 1 brick of C4 to kill a fully armoured vanguard. Sometimes when the PS2 gods feel like, sometimes 2 C4 doesn't work either and it can be incredibly frustrating. Also, dumping tank mines behind a tank and throwing a grenade, slowly waiting for it to explode is a bit of a rookie mistake, from my perspective. Mines take time to arm, just like flipping the switch of C4. They take time to detect whether any enemy vehicle is in proximity/on them. Plus unlike C4, they don't stick to anything. Either shoot the mines, or equip C4.
    • Up x 3
  14. Twin Suns

    Steal killing? There's no such thing in War! I'm sorry I didn't see your name on it? Well if that makes you mad or frustrated, your gonna love the fact that I got a Savior ribbon and even more exp for that kill.

    When the shoe is on the other foot. I'm just greatful that the enemy is dead and I'm still alive. I usually say thanks to that life saver, wether it was a man or woman. Bet!

    Considering the atrocious logic being thrown around. I guess we shouldn't give credit to who scores the touchdown then....
    • Up x 1
  15. Demigan

    Yes there is some atrocious logic abound.

    For example if someone scores a touchdown we assume his allies assisted in the endeavor, and it was that person's skill and capabilities that helped him score the touchdown.

    However if that same person would wait around the last line and then try to steal the ball out of an ally's hands at the last moment to score a touchdown, we shouldnt have to be crediting him for the touchdown. Sure explicitly following the rules of the game would credit him, but its not a war but a GAME. we can define the rules to encourage good gameplay behaviour rather than being a dick and stealing the ball at the last moment.

    And that is basically what you are promoting: purposefully taking the credit for something you did not earn or accomplish. Something something trophy generation amIright?
    There is quite literally no reason not to look into this situation and make sure we dont have to depend on "it will even itself out" and the hope you have honorable players.

    Give me one good reason as to why, in this game where we can define the rules to make the game more enjoyable and fair, we should NOT change those rules and make kill credits more fair and enjoyable. So far you've just thrown situations that are not equivalent around.
    • Up x 1
  16. Twin Suns

    @Demigan

    It's nice to see you've finally calmed down and stopped name calling at least.

    o7
  17. Demigan

    Ah yes because insulting entire generations is A-OK as long as you dont use swearwords.
  18. Twin Suns

    My son made me proud when he threw that ribbon for participating in the trash.

    o7
  19. adamts01

    Those theives would most certainly be charged with manslaughter. For all intents and purposes, it's the same end result for the convicted as murder, just with different legal requirements for prosecution.

    While the driver technically dealt the final blow, hitting someone at night, laying down in a road, not at a crosswalk... He most likely wouldn't be charged.

    Here's an interesting article on the matter.

    https://m.startribune.com/in-crashe...rity-of-drivers-don-t-face-charges/380345481/
    • Up x 2
  20. Demigan

    Twinsuns: "I hate participation trophy's! But I'll indirectly protect all participation trophy systems in the game!"

    I understand Twin. You need that particiption trophy of stealing someone's kills to feel good. But we cant be holding your hand all the time and giving us our hard earned work just so you can proudly say "I did that, finished someone else's work". You need to fend for yourself once in a while.