Battle rifles need some love

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Ixidron, Oct 6, 2014.

  1. cruczi

    Maybe I should've just said irrational because dumb is basically the same thing. Irrational dumb stupid, call it whatever - point is it makes no sense.

    There are psychological grounds for liking certain colors because colors affect our physiology, mood, etc. Nothing irrational about that. It's been studied. Liking palindromes has the obvious explanation that it's the same word forwards as backwards, that tickles the language center which goes "how about that! that's pretty funny" when it sees a palindrome. The obsession with Pi is also quite meaningful because it's a central concept of geometry that has been researched and studied in great depth over thousands of years.

    But I have yet to hear a compelling argument for why it would make sense to prefer numbers that end in one of the 10 digits we have over numbers that don't. It's completely arbitrary to pick 0 and call that a more preferable last digit than any of the other digits, because the fact that we have base-10 mathematics instead of base-16 or any other is mostly coincidental. Preferring numbers divisible by 5 is equally nuts. Nothing wrong with it, of course, to each his own and all that.
  2. Ixidron

    I know it's irrational, but apparently people like round numbers and numbers divisible by 5, even if they don't realise about it, check weapon stats, almost all weapons have muzzle velocities that can be divided by 5 and about half of them end in 0, ammo in infantry weapons can always be divided by 5 except shotguns, and most end in 0.

    All certification purchases end in 0 and all sc purchases can be divided by 5, most en in 0, why don't things cost 29 certs or 46?

    It's curious right? human psychology, what an interesting world.
  3. cruczi

    Right, I'm not denying that people do irrational stuff and think irrational stuff, you don't need to convince me - you already did in your earlier posts :).

    Regarding certs, I'm not quite sure you can interpret cert costs as evidence for the claim that people prefer numbers ending in 0, other than it's simply practical. I'd suspect the reason cert costs end in 0 is that it's easy for people to manage their cert balance that way. Everyone thinks of numbers in base-10 so cert costs end in 0. 1000 certs for a weapon is an easy to manage round number.

    Unlike cert costs, however, many other costs often do not end in 0 but in a string of 9's or some other more confusing, less customer-friendly number. Why is that you might ask? Why do we pay 199 SC for a Fresh Meat starter pack? Why not 200? It's all a scheme to make us pay more than we think. Yet more irrationality. Not only that, but if we did actually like rounded numbers, then surely we would round the 199 SC up and treat it as 200 minus one, rather than as 100 plus 99? The latter feels a smaller number than 200 minus one - perhaps just a tiny bit, but it's there; the effect is easier to notice with bigger prices like a car costing 39,999.00. Doesn't that sound like a lot closer to 30,000 than does 40,000 - 1 ?And that is exactly why we're more likely to buy it. But since SOE does not make a profit off of purchases made with certs, they don't need to increase sales volumes with prices like 999 certs that tip over the irrationally inclined customers.

    But none of the above practical considerations apply when looking at weapon damage, why should weapon damage be 350 instead of 334? You can't do any meaningful calculations more practically with 350 than you can with 334. As I showed earlier, the opposite is true - you can easily calculate that 334 is just enough for a 3 shot kill, and as soon as you get out of max. damage range, it becomes a 4 shot kill. If the weapon did 350 damage, the average dude would have to go through a whole lot of trouble to figure out when it becomes a 4 shot kill given that it stays a 3 shot kill for some unknown distance beyond the max. damage range.
  4. Nintyuk

    Meaning It was never a change it was always part of the flash for this game.
  5. DramaticExit

    All they really need is a velocity buff. That'll give them the ranged advantage they so desperately need.
  6. William Petersen

    Was there a time when Flashes didn't have weapons? Yes, there was. I played at that time. Flashes now have weapons. Ergo, giving flashes weapons was, as I said, a change (and the worst one they've made).

  7. Erendil

    I don't think BRs need another velocity increase but I wouldn't object if they got one.. ;) If they got one though we'd still want the Eidolon to be slightly slower than the other two due to no bullet drop - say, 620m/s.

    I don't think a damage and RoF increase would fly though. 300dmg * 333RPM / 60 = 1665DPS, which is already a respectable number. I'd prefer we try it w/ just the damage increase before trying for an RPM increase as well.

    Oh, all this talk about the psychology of numbers reminded me that I got my damage numbers wrong. The EHP of Nanoweave 5 users is 1250, not 1200 like I thought, so the damage increase should be to 313/250, not 300/240. So to recap:
    • Tighten its ADS CoF from .1 to either .03 or 0
    • Remove the recoil bias that makes it pull to the right to make it more user-friendly for new players.
    • Increase its Max/Min damage from 250/225 to 313/250, to reduce its STK by 1 against Nanoweave 5 at all ranges
    My suggested buffs would already increase its versatility because it could kill faster out to medium range and kill more reliably at long range.

    Unless you mean more customization, in which case I'd love it to have Extended Mags as an option. And the HEAT mechanic for VS, of course. :D

    The Adv foregrip's main benefit is to reduce the horizontal recoil further, which really isn't an issue for BRs since that resets completely between shots so long as you're not spamming. It allegedly decreases vertical recoil slightly as well, but I've not tested that in a long time to see if it's even detectable or not.

    It also decreases the recoil angle, but I'd much rather just have the BR's recoil angle removed completely on the stock weapon so it kicks straight up. That'd make it easier for new players to use and for maintaining accuracy when spamming shots.
  8. Taemien

    One of the things I wouldn't mind seeing added to Battle Rifles is the addition of a three rnd burst. Give it recoil enough so that a skilled player can get 2 in the chest and 1 in the head resulting in 1000 damage per trigger pull.

    Yeah its cheesy to one click someone like that. But only good players would be able to do it, and they'd still get wrecked in CQC if they miss. And they will miss from time to time. Also it would take 2 clicks (6 rnds) to kill anyone using any rank of NWA.

    I wouldn't mind this either. Also remove COF from ADS. I'd like all weapons to have this, but as a compromise, lets give it to BR to make them distinct. As before all ARs, Carbines, SMGs, and SGs will still beat BRs in CQC. But at least skilled players will have some chance.

    The M14 in RL is a great firing weapon. I'd love to see something in PS2 that works similarly to how it does. Something, fun and challenging to use and ultimately rewarding in the sense of accomplishment.
    • Up x 4
  9. Tatwi

    Shotgun + slugs = 3 hits anywhere to kill at long range.

    Battle Rifle = 5 hits anywhere to kill at long range.

    The only difference in using them really is that you have to aim higher with the shotgun, due to the larger drop.

    Personally, I what I would do is reduce the damage of slugs beyond 150m to 6 hits anywhere per kill and increase the battle rifle to only 4 hits anywhere to kill. That at least gives BR a bit of a reason to exist.
  10. Wizlawz

    • Up x 1
  11. Ixidron

    Well, keep in mind that it is semi-auto, which decreases the effective RPM, for example, the Reaper has 1666DPS with HV ammo and it's full auto.

    For a more accurate comparison try the SABR-13 in sami-auto mode, which has 1670dps with HV ammo, then try the default gauss rifle which has the same RPM and damage (or if you have the gauss prime try it, it's exactly the same as the SABR with HV ammo including accuracy while aiming, but with the full auto mode) and you'll notice the fire rate decrease, as it's tied to your ping, speed and reflexes.

    Agree about the first 2 points, some LMGs have better initial accuracy while aiming than battle rifles.

    Yeah that, extended mags, and special ammo, call it armor piercing or explosive or whatever,that deals more damage against MAXes.

    The heat mechanic could be interesting, I always get out of ammo, but of course that would mean less magazine size.

    An overload mechanic would be interesting for the NC, something like you fire a more powerful shot but then you have to wait a bit before firing again, good for headshooting people.

    For the TR, maybe 2-3x burst would make it more versatile at close range.

    All those 3 would go in the grip slot.

    Edit: I don't know wtf is wrong with the forum quotes but it appears it automatically places an end quote after every full stop.
    • Up x 2
  12. Erendil

    Enough people have asked for a 3-round burst that I'd be fine entertaining such an addition. I wouldn't find it cheesy though. I mean, we already have infils that can do it w/ their short-range BASRs, and they only have to land one bullet and can remain cloaked until they line up their shot. :p

    The M14 is what I've always had in mind when using BRs. :cool: Right now it behaves more like an M1 carbine tho. You know, the one that reputedly can't penetrate winter clothing.... ;)

    Very good points about the SABR and Reaper. I personally don't give two ***** about DPS or care if it's too high, since it doesn't accurately reflect how quickly you can actually kill. :cool: Especially as you say on semi-auto weapons. But I know if I didn't mention it someone would be on here saying, "But, but, but... DPS...." :p

    In addition, many people have difficulties reaching the BR's current ROF (and thus DPS) since they simply can't click fast enough. So there's another limitation. So yeah, upping the RoF to 375-400 would be fine as well. :cool:
  13. Schwiizer

    Everyone in this thread says basically the same. BRs need a revamp, they aren't balanced.
    But you all miss the most important question.
    How do we tell SOE all that, so that they actually change something. Unfortunately, discussing here doesn't change anything...
  14. OldMaster80

    Btw is there anyone using laser sight on battle rifles? Is it worth? Can you use it effectively from the hip?
  15. Ixidron

    Sure you can, the point isn't if the laser sight is worth it, battle rifles are terrible in CQC due to slow RPM and damage, they perform slightly better than the Rebel (NC pistol) or the Cerberus (VS pistol).
    • Up x 1
  16. Erendil

    My short-mid range loadout is 3.2x Chevron scope + Laser Sight + Suppressor + HV Ammo. When equipping the LS, don't let the size of the reticle fool you. Due to its semi auto nature the CoF resets almost completely after every shot so it's bloom over time is almost non-existent. So it's more accurate than you'd think. The LS shrinks the CoF enough to make it a viable hipfire weapon out to 12-14m, and maybe 50% accurate out to 20m.

    That said, it's damage/TTK is still terrible. You have a good chance of taking out any non-MAX, non-HA players, but against HA you'd be better served pulling out a good sidearm instead. My preference is the Underboss.
  17. Juunro

    I've had pretty good experience with the Warden recently, but it could definitely use something else. The trick is this though; what could you give it that wouldn't make it flat better then the carbines?

    I mean, it's great for sitting on top of the trees in Hossin on an ammo pack, picking off jerks from far outside their engagement range. Which I guess is what it's for.
  18. Cuze

    After some experimentation I used Laser Sight, and removed HVA/Compensator and found to try to get it as useable in CQC as I could and I found that it helped quite a bit in getting kills. Long range kills were rare even with long range attachments, and were not significantly harder without said attachments.

    Overall I quite enjoyed the weapon and did find the laser sight helped for when someone surprises you up close. I still avoided hip fire as much as possible, but it did save me a few times.
  19. Taemien

    I actually own both the M14 and M1 Carbine :D I have alot of firearms actually... a bit of a collector lol.

    I just need a few old old stuff from WW1 and before to complete it.. but damn they are pricey.
  20. Rovertoo

    As NC, I've always wondered why anyone would use a battle rifle since you can carry one in your pocket as the Rebel pistol, as far as I can tell, is the same thing.

    Personally, I think they should make them 2 round burst, long range 200 damage guns. Maybe tweak fire rate or something.