Battle Flow System - No Tactic anymore

The only issue with a hex and lattice system is that it destroys the intercontinental lattice- which made fighting actually purposeful in planetside 1.

I bet you did, because only things that you like are any good, and anything you don't like is dumb, because you're so amazing, I suppose you never played in a large outfit with dedicated infantry, special ops, fire teams, armour platoons, and an air wing, since you require lines on the map to lead you by the hand to " the big fights ",

Anyways the only real solution for SOE is to do both and rotate them to keep all of their players happy, if the lattice is everywhere then obviously players will leave enmass, and you will have barren lands and more server merges.

It has all happened before, and it will happen again, history repeats its self.

Who friggin cares about PS1, this is PS2, not PS1, who cares about the intercontinental lattice system, **** man, do you really want to loose 50% of the games pop in 2-4 months then lose more as time moves on over a dumb intercontinental lattice system.

To my mind, the SCU generator was removed because it was speeding up uncontested captures. Smart troops disabling SCUs in uncontested, and sometimes even non-adjacent territories so that they could specifically avoid a fight. This made the time to take something like a Biolab unpredictable because the base would be camped from the inside. Additionally, troops sitting in a base that is basically lost, ie the last couple of minutes, in most cases was't doing anyone on their faction a favor while they sat and waited for targets to pass by their door.

Did people ask specifically for the SCUs to be removed? Perhaps not. Did they ask for a stop to uncontested captures? That most certainly happened. This was a solution that they came up with.

And yes, choices were removed for places to "capture". That is a far cry from removing places to "attack". Yes, there are fewer bases, but those were bases that were basically unused. Why do you feel that your existence needs to validated by a line on the map or a descending bar on the middle-top of your screen? I don't think you are that constrained by "strategic rules" short of being actually prohibited from doing something, like a giant wall preventing you from going in a particular direction.

Have you tried deep striking and attacking a place even when it wouldn't directly capture it? When you fought on Indar, did you go to wherever most people were, or did you try going around and attacking elsewhere on the same target, or different targets? These are earnest questions, because I am trying to understand what situations you have encountered so that I can understand your anger / depression.

Because I have neither been angry nor depressed by the new system, and I wager that we prefer the same thing: not meat grinders.

Actually I have being in a big outfit, and not only that. I also played ARMA that requires coordination, Planetside 1 with big outfits, and many more coordinated team games.
Also the game will not last 10 years like PS1 did due to the generic gameplay, and hexes that you speak of.

No one will leave because of the Lattice. Well, people might, but more people are joining back up than are leaving.

The intercontinental lattice system made fights meaningful. Because you CONQUERED a continent and that feeling was great.
You wouldn't know what I'm talking about, though.

I am officially convinced, some of you have some serious issues, no offence, but I'm being completely serious, no joke, or distaste full burn, or silly flame war, serious issues you may, and should seek help for, serious issues.

I bet you did, bet you were all over the in depth strategical game play, you can tell by your love of linear game play, and your support for the removal of things that added depth and free thinking, in support of being led by the hand and told where to go, and in what order, by a line on the map, that you can do nothing about, you can so tell.

tbh, you're just stating bull and you refuse to show any numbers or statistics to back it all up

You just keep stating the game dies. Even though this whole system is 3 days old and judging by the road map votes, around 80-85% people want MORE lattice.

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/july-amerish-battle-flow-improvements.126346/

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/june-esamir-battle-flow-improvements.126344/

I find it more likely the game would die faster with the hex-system than lattice at this point. You should vote btw.

"I don't like what you're saying, so I'll insult your credibility" - You.

Please be quiet, or this will turn into a flamewar.

History is repeating itself, all over again, What has happened before is happening again, and again, the proof is all over the fourms, in game, in chat etc, I played for 6 hours non-stop today, and honestly it's about a 50-50 split, all lattices, people will stay for a few months then start to trickle out, many will leave all at once, it will happen when release of a new big game is released, like BF4, and this time they won't come back, votes can be stacked and on this site are not a show of anything, you people are just honeslty too stubborn, last time, in PS1, half the pop was gone within four months, I left for EQ2, and BF1942, don't believe me, go all lattice and I will make a personl mental note to come back here in 1.5-2 years, just to say I told you so, and tell some people off, who will really, really deserve it, again, over a hundred of us on my outfit left Indar for Amerish today, as did many others, so, again, the only solution is both systems and rotate them, or go all one way, and lose half your pop in a few months, then lose more as who has time and wants to zerg in the same place for days on end.

The online fourmside vote is flawed as it only takes into account the fourmside players, and then it only takes into account those who want to vote, and many of the pro-latticers are almost manical about it, to the point of insanity, I mean they've managed to psuh Sony Online Entertainment to do something they never wanted to do, and said publicly they would not do as the conseus and what they wanted for THEIR GAME was against the lettuce, so congrats on that, I'll be back to say I told you so, just to be a dick.

Sorry man, but it's all true, everything I have said, but I will congratulate you people on getting Sony to do something they never wanted to do, and spoke publicly they didn't want to do, so /clap I suppose.

And with that I'm out, but I will be back to say I told you so and rub it in your face, there are reasons why other shooters are so popular and have millions of players, and PS2 has been bleeding players, I mean it should be pretty obvious, right there, right in front of you, and anyways I'm done with you people and fourmside, I'm going to enjoy whats left of the depth and PS2 before you people completely destroy it and piss all over it.

Later *******.

I felt that ghost-capping itself wasn't the problem, but a subset of the problem: uncontested captures and no defense. Many people seemed to find it to be boring to capture a base with little to no contest. Even if you made the change you suggest, then it wouldn't do much to alter the syndrome of forces intentionally not seeking to do battle because it was easier / more points to cap uncontested bases.

I agree. Many people call it the lack of metagame or depth. I imagine the lattice system is a stopgap measure meant to give clear "objectives" to those that cannot easily see what to do.

Arguably there was no point in the game before, either. Only at the time it was pointless and uncontested (which some would say is boring).. I completely agree that there needs to be depth added to the game. However that isn't going to happen quickly or at once. Game development is a delicate balance of changing a room or two of a house while trying to prevent the rest of the house from crumbling as you tweak the foundation. Some things are stop-gap measures meant to fix an immediate problem, and some are pieces of a solution that will evolve with future partial solutions. No game, program, or business really changes their entire way of working, or adds an entire level of depth in a single go. Just like the AA problem, just like the armor problem, just like the MAX problem.

It is gamey, as it is trying to game the "average player"'s mentality to give them objectives and purpose, rather than wandering aimlessly around, either being stomped by huge forces with no backup, or going around with huge forces with no opponents. That turns new players off, and the life-blood of a free-to-play freemium model game is new players. I've seen this problem from the developer side as well as the player side, and it is a delicate balance between the needs of new / unskilled players, "whales" (people who buy a lot), and your average repeat player base. It has to balance many disparate forces and because development companies like SOE are not a single monolithic hive-mind but an organization of disparate ideas and understanding and viewpoints, you will sometimes get things that don't seem to make sense at the time.

Understand that these lanes were probably NOT meant to appeal to you. I don't like measuring my joy in "how many kills between quick deaths" I can pull off. I don't like to spawn, die, spawn, die. This is probably just like you. The big difference, I feel, is that I have NEVER felt constrained by "this is how you have fun" in any form, be it direct statements, lines on a map, or XP point carrot to tell me I'm doing good.

For people seeking more than bowling lanes of death and destruction, for those seeking to truly do some epic things, small unit tactics, or simply not be a dollop of meat in the meat grinder, there are still things to do.

Thank you for responding to my question. I agree that that was a solution to ghost capping, but as I said the problem didn't seem to directly be "ghost" capping but "uncontested" capping. Lost opportunities for a good fight. It is the very real problem of a balancing between FPS Num X Num games like Battlefield, COD, Natural Selection, etc with sandbox pvp. How do you guarantee people can "do what they want" as long as they can "do what we also want"? By forcing the easily guided to do things with convenient tricks, and letting the more independent find their own path in the world, as they have always done.

I hope you leave and go back to COD, Major. I sincerely mean that. The rest of us will be having plenty of fun while you fume because you didn't get your way.

They had to merge half the servers because of low population DURING the hex-system. Why? Please explain

ur the stubborn one here though, you just say things without backing em at all. How can you be taken seriously if you doom and gloom after a few days of the new system and act all arrogant. They could have gone with hex-system and fix on that, but apparently they felt that the lattice would serve game better and feel people wanted it. They know lot more about their game than any raging person here on the forums too.

Ofcourse I'm not gonna believe you, you don't show any proof, you're just spitting out personal anecdotal evidence at this point and complain that some have the opposite opinion than you.

Sadly law of averages applies to the roadmap votes, the more votes it gets the more accurate it becomes and atm it's heavily swinging on the positive side. IF any side is maniacal, its anti-lattice side considering how strongly they moan. But like they say, vocal minority barks loudly for their rights and self-entitlement.

Your outfit may agree with you, mine doesn't. We actually enjoy the game more now than we did earlier. I even came back to the game cause of the lattice and I'm staying as long as soe keeps on adding to the game and improving the lattice or if they invent even better system than hex/lattice.

You dont really have to eat ur pride or anything you don't have to admit anything, just don't let the system change get to you so badly. It'll change back if people suddenly stop disliking the lattice. SOE will give us exactly what we want, and lattice was asked since beta and the moment they decided to make something similar to lattice they got a lot of positive feedback form the community.

Come back in 1.5-2 years then, I could also be the end that says I told you so.

That is not true. Just because you cannot invent any tactical operation, does not mean that it is not possible.

I remember "leading" a 2-man squad the other evening and managed to annoy our opponents pretty well. Sure, we didn't cap a base, but managed to delay the opponent by about half-an-hour!

Sure, it is situational and not always possible, but tactics are about recognizing those situations and exploiting them.

You can always lead your squad to enemy flank and shove your guns up to the enemies butt......TACTIC

The lattice just rubbish, frankly. Hopefully it will be removed at some point.

that was the day of lattice implementation .... day 1 .... everyone was gonna be on indar on day one lol. its a different story now . esamir alert last night cleared indar out .

Yes, I think over the course of the coming week we'll see player bleed from Indar. People always try the new stuff (I did for 2-3 days). That doesn't mean they like it or think it is a good thing.