Bastion too powerful

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by xakanrn, Mar 25, 2020.

  1. ZDarkShadowsZ

    Every time I see one of those things at the moment, I either try and find some other fight to go to, or just leave the game. I just got killed by a VS bastion on Cobalt whilst I was sat in a spawn tube at Watersons.

    I'm afraid if this isn't resolved soon, no amount of amazing population increase will ever convince me to continue playing. Between this and the unending, uncounterable OS attacks, this game is just not very fun to play.
    • Up x 2
  2. Scatterblak

    I wouldn't mind it if ground weps could hurt them as well. We've had a chance to pound the cells on the bottom with a magrider, and nothing, or so it seemed.
  3. SteelMantis

    Personally I like the Bastions less everyday.

    The last time one got pulled was toward the beginning of a good alert. All sides were fairly balanced as far as territory and it looked like it was going to be a fun fight. Then our biggest zergfit pulled a Bastion. Instead of rejoicing our side having more firepower I groaned because all it ment to me was fighting getting killed and losing the alert by pulling a good portion of our players off the points.

    30 minutes later our side was losing badly on territory but I had found a good fight defending a base. The enemy kept trying to push in, we kept trying to get a push out together. After around 15 minutes of a prime example of why I love PS2 the "friendly" Bastion showed up, TKed me and a number of other allied players and ended the fight.

    I logged out in disgust. I'm not quitting because of them but I'm certainly enjoying the game less.
    • Up x 2
  4. LordKrelas

    If that Tank is able to get an Angle on an ESF due to using a Hornet: That ESF is very blind to terrain, or is floating on the damn ground if that same tank is the one being fired on.
    As well, LOL-Pods while not fatal, do actually decent results - And given Lighting Tanks don't have the capacity of that ESF, for the same cost, let alone the universal nature of it.

    What exactly is hitting the thing if it flies in a straight line, and why is it being treated as a Kill-per-Flyby?
    Low-Velocity Rockets?
    Tanks finding the perfect hill for the angle?
    Remember Tanks can't aim bloody high - they need terrain.
    Remember, Rockets are low velocity as all hell.
    Flak? Is chip damage like mad.
    TR's Striker, doesn't care if you fly straight, and is ES.

    Anti-Infantry: Nose-Guns, and LOL-Pods.
    The LOL-Pods aren't an instant death by proximity, for an entire squad, but that's on par with a HEAT Round murdering them, except with multiple-weapons, with every single possible firing-angle, able to unload at a moment's notice.
    As for being blown-away by Infantry: ..The Aircraft takes what, a Squad or two, to have no targets on the ground, LOS to the Aircraft, and land every single shot right? While it sits perfectly still?

    The Bastian, is a literal Free ESF Spawner, that is expected to be countered by Aircraft, is surrounded by Aircraft, and is an Air-Unit, with Sheer Air-power Guarding it from the Ground on-top, Which it decimates.

    That default Load-out, has the Nose-gun, which has some damn devilish DPS, typically can slaughter infantry, is Free (Heaven forbid, you ram a target_, has the Hard-counter to Lock-ons (Flares, prevent usage of the weapon-type entirely.)
    The Full automatic Repairs of Engineers, no Nanite-Cost, and map-wide range due to the Speed & Boosters.
    It's not like its Spawning a Lighting Tank or Flash: It's a Full ESF.
    As well; The Bastian has a weapon that nails spawn-grounds & lattice-bases, that is map-controlled; That's the literal decimater directly by the Bastian - on top of providing ease of Air-swarm.

    The Bastian removes any ability to act, unless you have more Air-Power than the Outfit fielding it.
    Any Land-Force is fodder, any Base-Defense is sodding Suicide, and there is nothing on the Ground equal to it.
    Nor the ESFs, nor Liberators that surround the bastard.

    Even MBTs, are less useful than Air's version of Armor (Liberators).
    And Air now has an Platform that dominates the entire zone around it, requires Aircraft, Spawns its own free Aircraft, and can nuke around itself -- It also makes Captures easier than ****, which is what Supplies the resources.
    Defending as well, Is lacking rewards; So the Tool makes the resources easier to gain as it's offense-focused, and only offense gets rewards.

    The only thing more absurd, than this thing, is outfits having invisible Orbital-Strikes at their call, without any set-up or counter.
    Since, the Bastian, at least actually can be seen coming, even if it's a "If you aren't a Pilot, Bad luck. Prep to be fodder, Ally or Foe, Only Air matters"

    With the Vulnerability to Tank-cannons; I'd say, C-4 on a Liberator, is the same level of reliable result.
    As we might as well have Prowlers deployed on the deck of the Bastian, be called a Counter to enemy-aircraft.
    • Up x 1
  5. Pug01

    Devs have been trying to get more air battles to be a bigger part of the game. The learning curve is very steep and with all kinds of issues. Costly resources makes it even more difficult.

    Their first "fix" was to flatten the curve and they thought listening to experience pilots would do this. Nerf G2A... Then Nerf the A2A lockons.... etc.
    Then they realized that flying with the mechanics of Planetside2 is quite problematic for those that are learning. So they nerfed it a bit. BUT the experience pilots could still manipulate this concept. And now the learning curve became even tougher, since everyone wants to be the dog fighting pilot and not utilize the mechanics of the game for its unique air fight style.

    Next was trying to make A2A battles big with Air Alerts, but you soon realized that once one team was ahead, you might as well go fight on the ground and get XP. Since the A2A battles rarely interfered with the ground battles during Air Alerts, since the objective was in the sky.

    Well the next solution.... Make it a ground problem with an Air solution. Force ground battles to deal with the Air Issue. But lets not face the issue that the learning curve for air pilots still exists. (And do we really need free ESFs for Bastion spawns???)

    The truth is, if you want more air battles, you need to flatten the learning curve for flying.

    The Bastion is a reward for Zerg Outfits. Zerg Outfits are fine, but I agree the Bastion is starting to smell like BFRs of Planetside 1.

    For bigger A2A battles they will have to make the A2A engagement a lot easier for any new pilot. It is worth experimenting with things like boosts for A2A tomcats, and coyotes. See if that flattens the curve. OR Flak cannons on ESFs. But this might get a lot of existing experienced pilots to leave the game. "The issues of divorcing players from existing mechanics"
    • Up x 2
  6. Trebb

    Are people still seriously saying this, and not in an ironic way, but super serious?

    ANYway, maybe make aircraft free for everyone when a Bastion is up. As it is, I don't waste my nanites on it, because a swarm of free, infinitely spawning aircraft surround the bastion at all times. Even if you kill a bunch, 12 seconds later they're all back and reloaded.

    Between this and the infinite instant OS spam, good fights are dying, and this is never good for the game.
    • Up x 2
  7. TRspy007

    NONSENSE. The bastion is OP? Are you joking? No, I definitely think it needs a buff, maybe make it fly 2x higher than max height so ground forces don't even have a chance to see it before they get instagibbed and their bodies tossed around like ragdolls by the 1hk cannons.

    Really, at this point you can't even deny the bias the devs have towards air. We complain that we have poop shooters to fend them off (granted, they never read anything we say) and then they present us with ANOTHER invincible ground pounding machine.

    Only the same few zergifits will ever be able to generate the resources and the population to pull bastions frequently, and this leaves the rest of players at the mercy of whatever bozos are piloting those things. More than once have these clowns wiped out their own team's advances due to their inability to read a map, and comprehend teamwork (do they get grief points when using orbital strikes and bastions on their friendlies)?

    These things just take us further away from the game, leaving no chance for anything to fight back. I really can't wrap my head around why the devs allow the weapons from the bastion to devastate ground troops, while not equipping ground troops with any viable means of defense. Really, if they don't want ground to damage it, that's great, but don't make the bastion damage the ground then.

    Bastions just go around wiping all the armor (especially the deployed sunderers) ruining the fight for people below, and then they move on when everyone has redeployed away from the fight they killed. And letting those things shoot through spawns is just the icing on the cake. Has this stuff not been discovered on the pts? At this point I'm really beginning to think its not a bug, and the devs seriously think there were too many safe spots for infantry to hide against air.

    As for the people who proudly make statements like Planetside 2 is a game about Infantry, Armor, and Air, if you can't handle that fact maybe you should go play a game like CoD instead.

    Well buddy, the whole point of a combined arms game is that everything is balanced to make each engagement fair and fun. Does getting pounded by 1hk cannons with nothing you can do about it sound like a proper combined arms? Really, are you that stupid? I'll also point out that the game is primary infantryside, if people really wanted everyone flying invincible air machines then air would be free, and infantry would cost nanites. Air would also be able to capture all base points. Granted, bastions can pull free air, but they can't cap a base. Rn, ground vehicles are made of paper, air just kills everything and infantry is just infantry. yes the game is supposed to encourage combined arms, but you're delusional if you think it currently succeeds in doing that. I'd also like to point out Planetside 2 doesn't have the pop to make idiotic statements like 'if you don't like it, then go play cod instead', especially when they are addressing a perfectly valid point. Are you actually that ignorant or are you just trolling?

    Bastions should either just be dedicated to A2A dominance, or simply be removed from the game, along with orbital strikes. It's really incompatible with a game like Planetside 2, especially in the hands of the fools that have access to them. I'm a small outfit leader, I've been able to craft a few orbitals, and even I find it ridiculous how one guy can just troll 96+ players with his 3 orbital strikes on demand. The bastions follow the same logic. It's a poor addition to the game, and it'll get old real fast for everyone.

    Unless they want to start handing out 1hk weapons against air vehicles to ground vehicles and infantry? I'd really like to see the face of some people when they discover actually have to fear AA.
    • Up x 1
  8. Hereyagoboom

    I like the bastion. Instead of hard points make the whole thing susceptible to damage, give the hardpoints a damage multiplier if you hit it similar to when you hit the backside of a tank. The only bad thing I see is there are only a few outfits you get in to get the bastion which hurts smaller outfits.
  9. Johannes Kaiser

    Yesterday we saw a TR Bastion fly all the way over where NC and VS had a huge fight and mess it all up.
    Give pointless idiots more powerful tools and they become unstoppable pointless idiots.
    • Up x 3
  10. SarahM

    A usual day in PS2, post escalation update:
    1. log in
    2. spawn at the warpgate
    3. redeploy to some big fight (this game is about the big fights, isn't it?)
    4. see a big brick hanging in the air
    5. see a bunch of flies swarming around the brick
    6. see the brick rain fire from the sky
    7. watch your teammates die around and in the spawn
    8. log out
    9. play a proper game with proper gameplay
    • Up x 1
  11. OgreMarkX

    Unlimited ammo, stupid fast fire rate, insta gibs players.

    This is really bad.

    RPG, don't sit on yer behinds for 9 months like in times past.

    Bastion's are ruining fights everywhere they go.

    RPG, great concept, bad design.
    • Up x 2
  12. OgreMarkX

    Oh hey gais, look a Bastion one hex away. <all your armor blows up> OMG GAIS FUNZ.

    Oh hey gais, look a Bastion! <logs off>

    ---+++++==== 7 Years of Players Telling the Game Designers (tm) that being farmed by vehicle spam is the worst aspect of Planetside 2 ====+++++---

    rPg: "hEy gAIs LoOk, a fLoATinG sUp3r Hi eXpLoSiVe FlOaTinG bOaT tU fArM u!"
    • Up x 1
  13. Twin Suns

    Test Server? BWAHAHAHAHA!

    I guess the community's highfalutin testers did their job. LOL. Pardon me, do you have any Grey Poupon™?

    Dunning-Kruger Effect strikes again.
  14. Twin Suns

    Thank you for that. *Tips Hat* That &@?! had me rolling.

    Much appreciated in these trying times.

  15. Twin Suns

    Ive seen people defending a crutch before, but you're ignorance is astonishing.
    • Up x 1
  16. Werkitten

    I think the problem is not the Bastion itself, but it clearly highlighted the accumulated problems with the balance of weapons in the game.
    This is especially true for stationary guns on bases that are artificially weakened to a state of almost useless. And if an anti-tank gun still has a use, then an anti-aircraft gun can not kill even a motionless hanging ESF. Free ESF flying out of Bastion raised this problem to a new level, but it occurred much earlier.
    This is not the only example of how developers ' decisions in the field of balance contradict common sense.
    In this game, a small-caliber Gatling machine gun can be more effective against tanks than an anti-tank gun.
    An airplane can have better armor than a heavy tank.
    The physics of collisions is broken and tanks roll head over heels if a ATV crashes into them (Is the armor so light that the tank no longer weighs tens of tons?)
    An anti-material rifle can damage armor, but it can't kill an infantryman.
    A VS flying tank can engage in aerial combat with the ESF with the same armor as a tank on tracks (Is the armor so light that the tank no longer weighs tens of tons? ).
    This is not a complete list, it can be expanded dozens of times.

    But if you fix all this, you will get a different game. Therefore, I suggest not to correct, but to make the situation worse and add to the game a ground analog of the Bastion - a warpgate crawling on tracks, equipped with guns that destroy the Bastion with a single shot, but can not kill an infantryman if you do not hit exactly in the head.
    Of course, such equipment must be flipped over from a collision with an ATV or Harasser.

    PS. I use an automatic dictionary. I hope your eyes didn't leak out from mistakes in the text.
    • Up x 1
  17. Scrundle

    You know, it suddenly struck me that they introduced the Bastion and Anvil drops at exactly the same time but did they never think to combine the two?
    How different would people's opinions of the Bastion be if instead of pooting out ESFs it was anvil dropping tanks? I think that would have been far more fun because it would engage everyone instead of just the air players, you'd still need the air force to take it down but now instead of just regenerating a swarm of ESFs it's producing an actual fight! Every character can do (Or at least try to do) SOMETHING to a ground vehicle, you have to stop doing what you're enjoying and swap to "dedicated anti air" just to dissuade the pilots. It's a completely different interaction.

    And then because the Bastion's main role would therefore be one of interacting with the ground (Instead of just floating around, from a design perspective what does a bastion actually... you know.. do?) it wouldn't need the hilarious kill cannons, so that problem would be solved too.
    • Up x 1
  18. csvfr

    Contrary to most of you, I'm pro-bastion & think it's super funny to both command and gun. Like here the orher day there was a stalemate between two zergfits in the deserts of Howling pass: 2 bases, 50 tanks, 100's of infantry fighting for hours until the bastion was pulled, staging an epic fight that led to it's destruction just as Howling pass was capped. Much, much more fun that the usual 3h meatgrind.

    I think the mannable bastion ground turrets needs to be buffed. They are as weaker than the Zephyr with the inaccuracy of the Duster and can't really kill even a lightning unless badly damaged. By manning one of these turrets you may score perhaps 10 kills in a run whilst the bastion captain racks up kills in the 100's. It would be more fun to gun if these turrets were powerful liek the Dalton.
  19. waystin2

    It is too powerful. Need to remove its ability to reach into spawns. Oh and my favorite is the double triple or even quadruple orbital strikes on your head while this thing is over the top of you. <grumbled sarcastically>
    • Up x 1
  20. Nakron

    i totally agree thats what i am talking about i always had this opinion about light assault and harrasers i dont think light assault trooper should solo any vehicle at all thats totally nosense really in which dimension a person a human being can take down a vehicle that easy without having a freaking hard time its almost impossible to do that you need at least a squad with a plan in mind to be able to do that more efficiently i think light assault troopers should not have C4 i think that ''mini-rocket-launcher'' is enough usually what i see is people going full kamikaze with light assault trooper flying around in the middle of the enemy lines like crazy tossing C4 in vehicles and insta-killing the vehicle and a lot of people around (i really hate that) thats encouraging ''easy-troll-farm'' gameplay but i dont think this will be fixed any time soon unfortunately.

    and about the harrasser i can say the same they act like a ''mini-tank'' they take down vehicles so easy alone and are tough to take down with AP shots like you said thats very strange really they need to change this too i talk this because i played a lot in a gunner seat inside a harasser and i can tell thats the case thats what happens i think maybe harassers should only be able to take down vehicles easy with at least a squad of harassers like i see some platoons doing they pull more than 3 harassers and work together thats understandable but still needs to remove the toughness in the armor of the harasser i think land mines should not insta-kill vehicles you are there going out to support your empire to defend a base your base really could use a tank support but then in the middle of the way you die instantly out of nowhere from a land-mine and need to go all the way back to spawn the vehicle again but next time for you luck theres no mines now you can get there but its too late the enemy already have the base.

    i think PS2 should put a mindset on people like where ''X'' vehicle exists but needs to be used in the right way and not like randomly for example i see people taking harassers and go full speed kamikaze behind a enemy line just to go kaboom and destroy the sunderer these suicide runs from harassers man that some times can be really annoying in my personal point of view i dont see any tactic in there i just se a people thirsty for farm and dont like to think a bit before going to battle if you want rush so much go play warface,cod,bf etc...its like a dictation says ''who is greedy eats broken glass''.

    and about the bastion i think they need to fix stuff on this matter because really get spawn kill every time enemy spawn a bastion is annoying you cant even react and defend yourself its like ''hell no thats it im outta here we screwed everyone fall back'' its like when they spawn a bastion you already lost you are just wasting your time there trying to defend the base the bastion they ruin a lot of awesome fights if they dont fix this people who returned will sure quit again soon no one wants to be insta-killed or spawn-killed every day but well for all the troll people who are enjoying all these unbalanced stuff and getting easy kills its shangrila for them but its like a dictation say ''pepper in the eye of others is juice''.