Base building discussion

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by AtckAtck, Nov 10, 2016.

  1. stalkish

    I dont think the majority of the playerbase would consider your idea simple tbh, seeing 3 HIVEs active but still getting a negative cortium refinement would be confusing the a new player, and i dont trust to devs to explain it well enough.

    Why not make it like this:
    The 25,000 requirement is stored in each HIVE that generates it (or more accurately it sits with the active core).
    If an enemy destroys your core then the cortium you've refined is also destroyed.
    So if a core has 100% efficiency and has refined 20,000 you damn well better be sure to defend it, otherwise youll loose all that progress.
    I think this would get more people attacking PMBs, and more defending them.
    Currently i feel its almost pointless to attack a PMB since yes i can probably kill the HIVE, but its just slowing them down really, and its only a matter of time until the enemy refines enough cortium to start the alert, i cannot possibly stop all HIVE construction on the continent.
    To make it more interesting, they could only show refined cortium amounts contained within each HIVE at the HIVE itself, not on the map, force players to actualy go there.

    If a HIVE core disables and transfers to another more profitable HIVE, the cortium goes with it, hence me saying earlier it stays with the core.

    The way people have been hording the alert rewards, itl only take the destruction of a couple of crucial HIVEs for people to learn.
    The bonus is conts may lock less often, something the game needs imo, feels like battlefield matches atm, not openworld MMO.

    Possible issue: Zergfit can overwhelm any PMB, perhaps creating a 'no alert for you' mentality, but thats what the games about, if your empire isnt organised to defend or break PMBs you dont deserve an alert.
    • Up x 1
  2. Luicanus

    An interesting take, I was actually thinking a different mechanic, to have each Hive holding onto its own Refined cortium. If the Hive is lost so is all of its Cortium.

    Making longer term Bases much more important to hold onto.
    • Up x 1
  3. stalkish

    lol just made that very suggestion above.
    • Up x 1
  4. AtckAtck

    Sorry, but that certainly isn't easier than my idea... And it is severly punishing anyone who build a base and then looses the core.
    I can already imagine the flaming and teamkilling and players preventing noobs and known players from building their base.
    Your idea leads to massive griefing.
  5. Luicanus

    yeah, there are definitely flaws, perhaps a mechanism where ANTs can drain the Hive and transport the refined Cortium to a fixed locked storage say at the Warpgate? This leads to risks in transporting the Refind cortium to counter the reward of getting it locked in.


    Lol so you did, that's what I get for not reading the full thread.
  6. stalkish

    Thats the whole idea, you dont defend and you get punished.
    Just like when you dont defend Eisa tech.
    Easier? Of course it is, you refined cortium sits in a silo, if you loose the silo you loose the cortium. Its only when an alert starts that the refined cortium is 'used'. Where is it before then, floating about in space above the planet?
    I personaly think that if a player is given a clear goal, as in remove that 10,000 cortium theyve refined, theyl enjoy doing it. ATM there is no clear goal in destroying a PMB, its just slowing the inevitable.


    They shouldnt balance the game around griefing, they should punish the greifers.
    • Up x 1
  7. AtckAtck

    Yeah, but this has been suggested before and the devs did't seem to fond of this concept.

    If you loose the transport you loose 10k refined cortium, thats still pretty harsh.

    My system might be more slow, but isn't as punishing.
    And building low cores still can help up the percentage or at least limit the loss.
    So every builder can feel and be usefull.
    Any core will get at least 31% over time, so the basic 2-3 cores are not enough.
    Someone needs to build at least "moderate" risky.

    Also players will need to adpapt to the new system will take time, you can see that they still havent adapted to it how it is now...

    Making it very punishing will be good for the quick learners but might also lead to more players leaving the game due to frustration.

    It is not as frustrating to loose just the hive, needing to take the core back, and rebuild, while having lost maybe 5-10k cortium along the way.
    Loosing everything and having to retake the core and rebuild. wow too hash.

    Can't blame me for finding my own idea better. ;)

    I think that is exactly how the sytem works now.
    RAW cortium is stored inside the silo, refined cortiium is sent UP to a space station (red beam from the core) for further transportation out of the system.
    So lore like you could say that my initial 99% are just to serve maintaining the space station and transport. :p:cool:
    [Where do you think the orbitals come from? :rolleyes:]
  8. adamts01

    Was that the old Hive-Craft system or Critical Mass? You never, never see an under-pop faction win on Connery unless the other two throw the alert on purpose.
  9. AtckAtck

    Doesn't matter, they steamroll us even better now since critical mass... Sometimes with -10% pop. They still own us all.
    It all comes down to how organized the faction is and how fast they can move around the game map.
    All you need is one platoon that coordinates and jumps around the map holding bases as needed, and once the timer has filled a bit again moves to the next endangered base. Do that for half an hour and you have won.
  10. adamts01

    -10%?..... Sorry, don't believe you.
  11. AtckAtck

    Well then play there and see for yourself.
  12. Luicanus

    To clarify, under my revised idea, refined cortium in the Hive, in the ANT and locked in the Warpgate would all count towards the 25k required to lock a continent. The Mechanic to transport Cortium out of a Hive to a Warpgate is just to limit the risk of the whole lot going down if the Hive is hit.

    Eg. You see and OS go up near you then you can clean out your Hive and try to save the store in the warpgate.

    However, an alert could still be triggered while that cortium was in the ANT so long as the total of Hive, ANT and WG refined cortium was enough.

    I fear I was a little vague on that before.

    Your solution does have merit but there is no method to perma-lock in any resources, and in order to gain resources most factions would need to have at least 2 hives a 40 and a 60 would only break even. With only 7 cores on the map you'd need to have whichever faction dominated the Lattice also be the faction that had 3-5 of the cores up for long enough to actually reach the limit. And hold the territory that long too. I can see that being an issue.
  13. Luicanus



    One last thought about your suggestion, an extension of what I said above really, If I take the time to build a sweet base, 100% eff but it's 4am and no one else is building I cannot actually trigger an alert, no matter what. You might need to reduce the eff rating that triggers the gain loss criteria.
  14. AtckAtck

    Thats why i wanted it to be not exacly -100% but if you manage to reach 100% you get 100% a little bit different to what hex said simplified.

    And as one can easiely get 200% with the 2 starting cores. (300% if you get the lucky 3 cores.) It didn't make sense to me to put the threshold lower.

    It is a system that comes from german tax system. There we know 2 diffenrent limits one is a tax allowance that gets deducted no matter what. And the other one is, that it is tax free up to a certain amount, any higher and ALL is subject to taxation. And that is where my idea came from. Just that i turned it the other way around.
  15. Luicanus



    Hmm, yes I see what you mean, it could work, although I'd still argue that my revised suggestion is both simpler to implement from a development perspective and more closely resembles the current system making it easier for the player base to absorb and adjust to.
  16. AtckAtck

  17. AuricStarSand

    lol I just wrote about all of this & it's 5 years later! Silos need buff verses single players & against enemy tanks 1on1 or from sniper tanks. Infils OP, Sniper Tanks OP.

    They need to update new construction to deal with both of these. Pain spire, AV or AI turret not good enough. Than those who say you should need a squad everytime, just to defend any silo are lame. Were talking even fights, 1v1 solo ant verses infil bomber, the infil has it too easy. Or solo ant av turret w/ repair module verses 2 tanks who are sniping from a distance or hiding behind a rock pod-shotting, the tanks win, the tower dies, all your hard work on walls, modules, other building, placement, & cortium running goes away. Basically solo ant players need a buff, without some b.s. reply about what silos were originally intended for. No. Just buff the solo silo players against, Infils. Plus 1 AV turret should be able to fight off 1 MBT with AI module, no matter the distance, on it's own, while your way, without getting sniped overly easily.

    With repair module out-repairing the 1on1 sniper vehicle / right now it does not - the tank wins everytime. Reduced damage from a distance, needs to be implemented. Making enemy players have to fight nearer to AV turrets if they want to troll silo's. Since 90% of the time the tank hides behind a rock. Tho I've seen many AV turrets lose to tanks who aren't even sniping or hiding, just mid-field. Maybe even the range of the auto attack modules, needs updating. Overall for even close range fights if your manning the AV turret + have repair mod, the turrets often seem to have low hp & need a 10% boost of healthpool. Thus the repair module, has to out-repair, rock hiding shots. Essentially people shouldn't walk through silos like cake to destroy them & that's what's happening most of the time (which is way too often). Or mountain sniper shots. By giving a new module, The turret just needs more hp too, tho that wouldn't be enough. Because 6 AV turrets vs 6 tanks of any kind = All 6 AV turrets with repair + auto shoot module die or lose. They don't manage to kill a single tank. All 6 av turrets lose, even at mid-range. They die like butter. Far range is even worst. Av turrets only shoot as close range.

    As for finding infils in a base, well proxy radar wont help, scout darts wont. The bomb gets planted, they shoot you in the back, rinse repeat x20 times, till you have no cortium left & your base is falling apart. They apparently fixed the ant harvesting distance trick. However this anti infil anti tank silo issue is even worst. If anything that harvesting / mining exploit only really helped much on 35k nodes, when it did work. You also can't nerf the cortium bomb, because outside of silos, cortium bombs rarely get used, because of how difficult they are to pull off. So outside of silo use, cortium bomb is very balanced. & I prefer to have more useful tactical items. Still tho, I've tested cortium bombing other players silos, while parking a cloaked sunder near. & simply put, they leave to go harvest even if 2 or 3 are defending. Then it's super ez, definetly too easy, to bomb their base many times. Especially if they are lower than 60 battle rank. I feel bad doing it after afew times, I never done that before. So I stopped soon after & left their base alone. They were all br below 50. So it's so ez to do, its not even fun.

    Also even if you a balance cortium bomb damage on construction items. It's still just as bad with infils who flail your base. It's not just the bomb thats bad its the flail too. So eitherway we need at the very least, a construction item that hunts for infils within the silo's paremeter. Pain spire & ai turret suck for that. Pain spire you just walk around it ez, did it always show the radius of it? I swear pain spire seemed like it didn't show the red skulls before. Like it looks neat, if you built it. Tho the enemy shouldn't be allowed to see the red skulls of the pain spire.

    The only way a silo seems bulky to defend, are regions that are hard for vehicles to access & regions nobody cares about in the first place.Other than that, for most regions that have moderately active fights, for ground level areas or flatter terrain (as in not always being forced to build ontop of a mountain to avoid tanks or infils), or front of the line hotter region silo building (not forced to build 10 miles back bored watching 1 hr of no nearby action ever); then if so, all walls turrets modules may as well be made out of paper.

    Infils & tanks should still be able to destroy player silo modules or turrets or spawn tubes or walls. I just believe they just have to be smart about it. & as of right now they don't have to be smart about it. They can just out steamroll the solo-builder-harvester-defender, 80%+ of the time.
    • Up x 1
  18. AuricStarSand

    P.s. (part 2)

    Infils & tanks should still be able to destroy player silo modules or turrets or spawn tubes or walls. I just believe they just have to be smart about it. & as of right now they don't have to be smart about it. They can just out steamroll the solo-ant-builder-harvester-defender, 80%+ of the time. Heck even 2 defenders can't stop 1 infil from bombing constantly. 1 OS does fair damage against 1 skyshield, most of the base intact. But 2 OS's verses up to 4 - 8 skyshields, means most of the silo is still destroyed, even with that many skyshields. Which is stupid. 2 OS's shouldn't > beat 4 - 6 skyshields plus most construction items worth a hoot. If 1 skyshield / items too can nearly survive 1 os against it. I know why it does that, because 1 os turns all skyshields off. Tho it's still dumb that if 20 - 100 people help build up a silo or defend it or battle around it, that any 1 or 2 dudes can destroy all their hard work of 20+ people. That's ********. So 2 OS's shouldn't destroy 4+ skyshields and the entire rest of most useful construction items. I don't wish that on my enemies either. I've seen enemy bases built up with 20+ people. It rarely happens. Than see all their hard work die from any 1 or 2 fools with 1 silo os + 1 pocket os > verses 6+ skyshields = 2 peoples effort beats 20 peoples effort.

    Lastly, solid wall is better for stopping infils than the regular wall. So it's stupid they penalized us for using solid wall. It doesn't even make sense, if they were shaped the same I'd understand, but they are shaped different. Yet solid wall can't repair & if you get os'd, it instantly gets destroyed. So it's like the more valuable wall, making rampart wall useless also till they fix this infil problem (by not nerfing cortium bomb, but implementing a new turret that shoots cloakers or esf pilot crashers into skyshield module for repetetive flail / Meaning a new turret that shoots only if someone is cloaking, falling, or la-flying). Keep allowing infils to 1 shot bomb modules, just make it x3 more harder for them to do so. By allowing solo ant players a way to defend better, without nerfing cortium bomb's damage. Tho ye back to solid walls; just allow solid walls to repair & not be 1 shotted by os's like wth? Also need a item that seals walls so people can't sneak in, if you don't implement a way to seal the cracks between walls or buildings, for infantry (too easy) entry, until than rampart wall is useless. Even if rampart wall has a window feature, it's still x100 times less valuable than keeping a enemy which destroys your skyshield to repeatedly flail your base. Guess which wall protects skyshields better from infantry?? Yes solid wall only.
    • Up x 1
  19. Luicanus

    Construction has been buggered since implementation. Above you can see some of us were desperately trying to make the Hive work and the devs' solution was to just bloody remove the thing after it caused them to remove Victory Points.
    Construction is never going to get fixed in any meaningful way, it's a dead dream.

    Even more so since the advent of pocket Orbital Strikes. ******* genius that came up with that should get their head checked. I can't fire a flail into a lattice base "because it would be too overpwerd" even though I'm asking for it to get nerfed hard when it does it. But they'll give out a pocket OS and a bloody Basition *captain killjoy* and his mates who run the biggest zergfits.
    • Up x 1
  20. Tapa6ac

    Most of the bases harm the game: we already have few people, and we divided them up to save this stuff. They also destroy resources that can be useful for really useful antes. The bases are destroyed like this: vanu - obelisk + any mountain and any distance. Any Sander stupidly parks under the wall and no turrets interfere with this. In addition, the base automatics ignore any engineer entering their turret. I propose to increase the cost of any basic buildings by 300%, it is impossible to pass and will not stumble between two hexes on 5 bases that no one needs.