Barrage needs a Buff to 48%

Discussion in 'Test Server: Discussion' started by Lorgress, Apr 14, 2018.

  1. Lorgress

    Being that the reload speed from the Anchor Mode is being removed the Barrage needs to be buffed up to 48% reload speed to match the old Anchor Mode. The loss of 18% is too much of a nerf for the ability to be mobile while using a faction specific trait. This a loss of 1/3 of the Prowler's faction ability.

    Players always invested in the Anchor Mode because of the rate of fire increase(reload speed). It is that increase in dps that makes the Prowler worth while. It is what makes it TR.

    Although, I am sure man of you are tired of hearing players complaining how their faction's MBT is weaker compared to the others, I believe a valid argument can be made for current live Prowler being slightly weaker than the other MBT's.

    The new Barrage ability will put the Prowler on a much more even ground to the other MBT's. Provided that it is buffed to 48% reload speed. I think that losing the velocity increase of the rounds and a 45s cool down in exchange for mobility is a fair trade.

    I hope that this opinion helps and thank you for taking the time to read it.
  2. Prudentia

    lockdown had such a huge reload boost because it had a downside. barrage doesn't have any downside so it obviously has a lesser bonus o_O
  3. Liewec123

    generally magrider sits on the top of the hierarchy with prowler close behind and vanguard dragging waaaay behind,
    its been like that for ages, even before the vanguard nerfs and shield nerfs,
    the only time the heirarchy really changed was when GK was a render range monster, prowler took the lead for that period.
    but generally it is maggy>prowler>>>>>>>>vanguard ;)

    also i don't say this as an NC main, my most used MBT is maggy, i LOVE maggy.
    but i do play a decent amount of prowler too
  4. typnct

    cant agree with you on the vanguard as he is good enough to beat any tank if played right(i see too much people use it as a brick on the ground while other good drivers never make such mistakes as to die from not moving or just plain dumb spots)
    the proof that he can beat any tank in the game with equal skill is basically his dmg in 8 sec - 4950
    its enough to force any tank to bleed to death or to go for a repair while its enough for the vanguard to jump out with archers and kill the target
    a good vannie driver will never loose to other tanks unless he has low hp/shield down or plain - overrun(happens to everyone)
    anyway i would rank the prowler as an equal to the magrider as they get equal opportunities to win in battles(usually the first to discover the other wins and it also depends heavily on the distance and terrain)
  5. RumpelAusDerTonne

    I'd like to keep the old one over this new mobile version. To hit anything that is not in close quarters you have to lockdown the prowler anyways to get the faster flying shells. Even then a magrider will be dodging at least half of them at medium range.
    This is a huge nerf and I really hate it.
    With reload times of 3.5 seconds for AP and HE while having low damage per shot all this does is nerfing the overall dps output especially against infantry. (HEAT doesn't even kill a Infantry in 1 direct hit and hitting both shots is extremely unlinkely for a moving target)
    If this goes live there is no reason anymore to pull a prowler. It's a sitting duck as before, just with lower damage output. If I want a mobile vehicle, I pull a Harasser or Lightning.

    It gives neither any variety nor options for the player. The niche is not a prowler in lockdown, the niche is mobile combat in a prowler where this change would have any positive aspects at all. There is also no reason to use anything other in the ability slot than this new barrage ability. Fire Suspension? nice, some hp more to fire one more shot before you die, that you would have gotten anyway by barrage or even the current live lockdown. Or maybe have it easier to run away from other tanks since you cant outdamage them any more what you have to do since you have not the ability to dodge (magrider) nor armor+shield (vanguard)

    TLDR; keep the currenmt live version of lockdown and make it a passive system. then players can decide if he wishes a barrage in utility for mobile combat or something else.
    • Up x 1
  6. Liewec123

    noone locks down in 1v1 scenarios because they're usually close/medium range engagements
    and they don't want to be a sitting duck taking every shot (and also at risk of getting flanked)
    so in those 1v1 scenarios this is pretty much a 30% damage increase for an already competitive tank.

    its only a nerf to the lame sit-on-a-distant-cliff-and-melt-things-from-render-range "tactic"
    which was ridiculous anyway and probably needed to be dialed back.

    so you get a nerf to a cheesy one trick pony tactic and a huge buff for actual combat.
  7. raffa2

    It's not like the prowler has any other tactic as it lacks the durability of a vanguard and the mobility of the magrider, and the only way to solve it is giving it more damage, yet it won't still be enough considering having to hit the double amount of shots still increases your chanses of being hit, due to exposure, and missing your shots. And also the ability will still be useless considering magriders will just magboost and disappear and vanguards will hit their invincibility button in 1v1 situations.
  8. Liewec123

    this comment is straight out of 2013...

    firstly even back when vanguard shield granted the massive HP shield that you're referring to
    a locked down prowler would still win simply by melting through the shield and then the tank,
    and that isn't even counting in a vulcan melting away at the vanguard,

    secondly this new shield is absolute garbage by comparison,

    lastly the prowler doesn't even need to lock down anymore, they can melt the vanguard while still moving.
  9. typnct

    that is a lie and you know it
  10. raffa2

    whenever i see a vanguard approaching at closer distances, i already know it's the end. That's been a thing since they added a shield to it, it's not like there ever is a real chanse to fight a full health vanguard 1v1 at close range, and with this lockdown nerf long range engagements will be a worse option than before.
  11. typnct

    cheer up the might make it a different option ability rather than the existing one
  12. Liewec123

    how exactly? they're giving you the ability to get the DPS increase from Anchor without even needing you to be anchored.
    that is a massive buff for tank fights,

    as i said a locked down prowler has ALWAYS shredded vanguards, even when shield was actually good,
    if both tanks start shooting at the same time the locked down prowler ate through the shield
    (again, even back when the shield was good!)
    and then ate through the vanguards health before the vanguard could kill the prowler.

    this isn't conjecture or opinion, there were tests/demonstrations, i was hoping to find the vid again but no luck
    a prowler with lockdown beats a vanguard with shield

    you're getting the ability to do that without even locking your movement.
    and you're all complaining and calling it a nerf! :eek:
  13. typnct

    1.the lockdown prowler cant shread a vanguard unless he is on a high position(extremely rare so dont count on it)
    2.the shield can handle a locked down prowler by simply driving towards him aka facehugging
    3. if your shield is down just heal up well and dont charge - he wont either as he doesnt know if you still have a shield ready or not
    4.a prowler always lose face to face against a vanguard and shooting while driving isnt so viable - usually the one standing still will hit more
    5. the prowlers lockdown wont help you against a kiting vanguard
    6.the vanguards ttk even without the shield is 12 sec against best prowler -12.6
    7.the barrage is 15 sec, the shield is 8 - you still negate enough damage to survive have an active ability which is extremely useful at this kind of fights and now it will balance it out so you could die as well in a facehug competition and not just charge up, get the shield and win
    now the vannies will actually need to beware of charging into a clusterfk

    this is why all what you said is a lie, the prowler cant kill a vanguard on the move even with the barrage as you have your SHIELD to counter that and a tank that is not so slow so you could do the same
    anyway barrage is a semi nerf unless it will be as a second ability for use(ill prob just abandon the lockdown completely as a lockdown is a really boring playstyle that dont suit imo something like half the players
    though half like it so its a fair trade)

    anyway, im not for buffing the barrage to 48% but i am for buffing its fire rate by about 30 40% as the reload would give a dps boost but its minimal from the trade off, but giving it a slightly better fire rate would make it good for close range and more spammable on the move
    but as a tradeoff it should get higher recoil for the faster fire rate
  14. LordKrelas

    That's kinda the problem with the Shield: it is the entire Vanguard.
    The Prowler is faster - add in a top-gun, and proper evasion.

    The barrage is very odd -- Don't see the point in splitting the Prowler's lockdown into a mobile spray, for a cost of a grand deal of the practicality of it.
    It has two shots, without the reload speed, you will still be reloading more than firing.
    Not to mention, an ability based on spamming, ends badly -- as does reliance on it.
    Don't want to see the Prowler's capabilities (without ability) nerfed to account for use of the ability as if required to have it.

    Recoil.. on a tank cannon.. you want what now?
    The accuracy of a tank's cannon, lets the single shots it fires, reliably go where aimed.
    Adding recoil, makes it harder to use any enhanced Fire-rate without chewing through ammo for barely an effect.
    So either the recoil makes the ability near use-able, or it's so unnoticable to not be a cost.
  15. typnct

    the vanguard is the shield, yes i agree.
    attacking a vanguard is usually a sucide, the shield is prob the best ability mbt's have right now and with 6k hp its huge
    if you have a better ttk and a shield to follow up with high health or minimal repairs then the tank is really effective

    seeing it as if the tank is only the shield and its bad wont help you
    but using this knowledge to your advantage will only help you

    because eventually if you use the shield and kill another mbt then you already paid for your own spawn, add a kill and you are worth more than 450 nanites in dmg to the opponent

    and btw, the prowler is faster by 5 kmph... yeah now compare the vanguards speed to the magrider... now thats slow
  16. LordKrelas

    Suicide no, but incredibly murderous in a 1v1 situation - where the Vanguard's entire capability goes from barely useful to Over-potent.
    Which is why I've been wanting to redesign the abilities entirely - let alone the Shield.
    But also, keep in mind, the vanguard's TTK is the same TTK from before CAI, with a longer repair time than the others.
    Miss a single shot with the Vanguard, and you quite literally only have the Shield as any prayer.

    The moment the Vanguard uses the shield, and either is engaged during the cooldown, or the enemy can afford to disengage, use cover or similar during the brief period, the Vanguard has basically lost the engagement.
    Which puts the Vanguard into either a Superior Position or Inferior position in combat, based on the Shield.
    Where solo, the Shield determines the Victory, while in groups, it's incredibly lack-luster.
    A shield designed near perfectly to dominate single-combat engagements strictly, is potent in one field, and crap in others.
    Putting the Vanguard into OP-zone usually alone, in a straight fight, but screwed everywhere else due to the strength in solo-fights.

    Not to mention, any highly lethal ability that can be spammed, IE direct-combat advantage (much like the shield in solo), is more potent in groups, and also will be used against Magriders as well as Vanguards.
    That which can melt a Vanguard through the shield, will melt a Magrider hard.
    That which can't melt a Magrider, likely will be sub-par against a Vanguard that is shielded.

    Shield needs to be redesigned into something more group-related, rather than survival of the single tank.
    Which is what my suggestions on abilities focus on: tactical use, with value on group-use over lone-wolf use

    Not to mention, The Magrider's slow speed, isn't much when it can go in multiple directions at once.
    If it was the fastest, it would be able to dodge inside of a much shorter range than present.
    Which would likely be why it is slow to begin with.
  17. Liewec123

    thought i was quite clear before, but maybe not, so for a 3rd time here we go.
    even in direct face to face testing with the old awesome vanguard shield and a locked down prowler,
    and both tanks firing at the same time....

    the prowler would emerge victorious, it'd melt through the (much better than now) shield and then melt the vanguard,
    before the vanguard could kill the prowler.
    that is what TR are getting with this patch, without the need to lock their position, they get rank 3/4 lockdown DPS.

    honestly it is blowing my mind that TR are the ones complaining about this, if anyone has a reason to complain it should be NC,
    because rushing prowlers with vanguard and facetanking them won't work anymore,
    they'll melt right through both shield and tank alike.
  18. typnct

    lordkrelas i do agree with you, the vannie does need a change and your direction is the right one imo

    liewec123 - ive got a question for you buddy
    why would anyone charge without using the shield on a deployed prowler without using cover at all? i thought that was to obvious to even mention
    and btw, vannie will win in a close encounter on a deployed but if it cant get to its side/back then it will loose, but still utelizing cover as YOU SHOULD(tank 101) then its an easy win
    and btw the reason people even would complain about it is that it might swap the existing ability which might be either a good change or a terrible change(people are not playing on the pts to even check it out)

    and btw, i dont see a reason for nc to complain about that after dominating tanks up close for so long(i dont think anybody would see a vanguard and tell himself - ah this is gonna be a fun encounter)
  19. LordKrelas

    Complain about it rational:

    Gatekeeper original: Long to Extreme Range AV weapon, TR
    Saron original: Long range precise AV weapon, VS
    NC: Close range AV weapons.

    Battles between multiple tanks, let alone against prowlers on a battlefield: Medium to Long-range combat.
    Solo-Encounters in mountains or choke-points: Close-range.
    Which do you think, happens more often?

    As well, between the Prowler's twin shots, the Magrider's agility, and the Vanguard's slow reload,
    The Vanguard is the easiest target of the three for Harassers & Infantry.
    Especially infantry.

    Unless its packing HEAT, or HESH, you have the best odds as infantry at surviving the Vanguard over other MBTs, piloted solo especially.
    I know this, as I do it with an Archer -- And damn, is it hilarious.

  20. typnct

    encounters on choke points happen a lot more than any other encounter but on mountain they happen usually between good mbt drivers so it all gets determined by range, cover and accuracy - if its long range with out cover then the prowler will win unless the vanguard has high accuracy(he can miss once unless the prowler has the vulcan then he can miss twice and still win)
    if its close range then the vanguard wins without any doubt

    did you know that the prowlers reload+delay between shots is equal to the titan ap reload? so the reload is the same.
    the vanguard isnt the easiest to kill as long as he doesnt cross red lines like all other mbt's as i find it easy to kill prowlers vanguards and magrider in a base as inf(rockets,c4 or the decimator)
    and yes the vanguard has harder time killing inf - but he has his gunner for this(always rely on the gunner to kill inf - dont waste ammo on them)

    saying the prowlers have easier time dealing with them is false - why? 1000 more hp, a shield to back up
    a speed thats only 5kmph slower
    these help him survive those kind of situations other tanks against infantry would die instantly

    and besides inf on nc have the phoenix - do you know how hard is it to stay on the front lines with these? - a well coordinated armor squad can die in a matter of a minute or two just because they cant deal with 10 20 phoenixes

    so who has is worse? none, against infantry we all suffer from different uncomparable problems