Balance Post 3: Predictions and Discussion

Things that are broken and need fixing:
MAX ability slots
Battle Rifles
20 clip size carbine and AR
Scout Rifles
Vanguard is too good at AV and sucks at AI
NC needs some non-shotgun things
Marauder is 100% better than Fury in every way
PPA and enforcer modified are 100% worse than Fury in every way
When shooting a flash or engi turret with the Phoenix, you can kill the user by hitting the vehicle, but not by hitting the user
Nanoweave is always better against slow RoF weapons than fast RoF weapons given the same DPS
Pump Action shotguns went from god tier to trashcan tier
ESF hitboxes are too varied
Striker also went from god tier to trashcan tier
So did phoenix, come to think of it, but it only took 1 day instead of 5 months like the striker
Sensor darts are stupid, too spammable, and no counter
Drop-podding on sunderers with tank mines/c4 is stupid too
Tank mines are stupid, they used to be good at being mines, now they're just good at being c4 bricks, make them smaller again
The locking ability of anti-ground rocket launchers is terribad
Harassers can drive so fast over tank mines that they dont take much damage
Harassers can drive too fast period
Each faction should have 0.75 ADS movespeed variants of all weapon classes. Right now TR have carbines and ARs, Vanu have carbines, ARs, and LMGs, and NC have ARs.
NC MAX weapons cost way too many certs, because 500 extra for each arm to be effective at all in MAX vs MAX is ridiculous
The north-east biolab on Indar needs more entry options such as jump pads from the perimeter wall
Sunderer deploy zones need to be 3d so people stop driving up amp stations and deploying
Spawn beacons should not be able to be placed inside restricted areas such as tunnels, spawn rooms

I'm si ply going to state that IF the change all lock-ons to follow the current Striker pattern (you have to maintain lock) THEN, the devs have to do TWO things: Missiles themselves will have to be made considerably faster and locks must be achieved quicker (based on range to target).

Now there are other things I'd like to see implemented, like if a lock is completely lost, the missiles will fly straight like a dumb-fire. The whole "go for the moon" thing is ********. And kind of like a third must-do is that vehicle lock-on boxes must be tweaked. Sometimes you can see the vehicle, and not just a bit, most of it. But you still can't lock on because the actual box inside the vehicle that gets locked on is quite a bit smaller. Maybe put out multiple boxes so even if you can't see the whole tank, you can lock on to the nose.
They also need to tweak how flares/smoke works. They should function in a sort of AoE. You pop flares and the flare's no-lock effect only functions within a certain range where the flare/smoke was popped. If you fly/drive outside of that range you are free to be locked on again. Meaning if you AB out of your flares you won't be immune for 10 seconds, but 1. So if the pilot doesn't have an escape route planned or simply came in too close, you die. No reason that vehicles should simply be left off the hook.

On the AV turret side... I have a seething hatred for that turret. They should cap the range but they should also do one of two things. Either decrease the damage or remove the tracking ability. This weapon is in most ways better then an entire class who's gimmick it is to blow up vehicles at range. It is too effective compared to rocket launchers. Lets recap on what the MANA AV turret is capable of: It functions not just as an anti-everything, all-range deployable. But it can also provide ammunition and act as cover with the added bonus that beyond the 1000 cert price tag it has no cost to it. It can take obscene amounts of damage for an unshielded deployable.
The only limitations that it has is placement and mobility. But the engineer is not required to keep manning the turret when reloading and you can easily relocate and redeploy the turret, terrain permitting.

And as for the anti-infantry use. This is a bit of hit-and-miss. Of course rocket launchers should kill infantry in one hit. It's a damn anti-tank rocket/missile after all! But it's use in CQB is something that has to be addressed.
One option that I see to work is if devs implemented a sort of "backblast" functionality. Meaning if you fire it in close quarters you can not only just harm but potentially kill yourself and anyone behind you when fired in too tight spaces. Nothing says "don't use it here" like a "suicide" screen with 2 friendly kill tags popping up.

AV turrets should have a certain range and maybe go dumb fire at a certain range. They should also appear on my screen when coming from a distance

I dont have any problems with RLs or Lockons atm

This would lead to so many team kills... Also, how would you distinguish between firing at a tank from a doorway and actual CQC? Keep in mind that MAX units are also a valid target. If this kind of mechanic where to be added then there would be people who just don't care and injure/kill their teammates regardless. It would be far, far more annoying than the occasional HA instagibbing you with his RL.

How many people actually try CQC with rocket launchers to begin with? I seem to clearly recall that yesterday I was killed by launchers more frequently than usual (as infantry, I don't use vehicles myself except for the occasional sunderer or flash), yet I can't find any such death in my recent deaths when I go look at my stats. My guess is people overestimate both it's effectiveness and it's prevalence just because we tend to remember these deaths more than others. In reality, launchers are completely useless against infantry unless they are stationary or running straight at you. And even then you are dead if you miss. Or if there is more than one enemy. The only situation I would recommend using a launcher in CQC is if an enemy catches you off guard and you have no time to switch to your primary.

Well, first they'd need to design a wind current system with semi-real time modelling. That, or a sort of an invisible set of particles, that if its 'wobble' exceeds a certain speed, it kills anything it floods into. Naturally, with the Rocket Launcher generating the accelerating packet of particles from its rear. But I think that would piss CPUs off.

1) Don't nerf our vanguard.
2) Is it really that much better? Is it because fury lost it's OHK so they now both kill in 2 direct hits?
4) Yeah that's a funny fact.
5) How come?
6) Nah not trash. Could use their old magazine and restore slugs damage falloff. They used to be accused of competing with bolt action.
8) How should striker be?
9) What are your suggestions for phoenix? I think we all want dumbfire after range limit, range based on distance and headshot ability.
16) But speed is fun. Don't nerf harasser speed.

High ROF = You can get the requisite number of bullets out faster than the slower ROF weapon can get them out. It also increases the number of bullets required to between 1 - 4 (Or 3. Whatever, close enough, right?) extra.

The AV turret needs to be turned into a recoilless rifle. Low ROF, high damage, large firing signature (back blast if you will), similar trajectory and projectile velocity as a tank cannon. Problem solved.

Okay:
1.) How do you fix these, what is your idea?
2.) Don't see this one personally, I think the BR is fine
3.) Like, cut the clip sizes?
4.) Don't see this one either, especially with the announced sniper rifle changes
5.) The Vanguard being good at AV as a problem. The AI can be improved by buffing the secondaries
6.) Thumbs up
7.) This is being dealt with already
8.) I haven't used these enough to comment
9.) That is just weird, that needs to be fixed. I have never heard about this before though
10.) How would you fix this?
11.) Disagree with this one, PAS are where they need to be. OHK, but very high risk, high reward. I still see them used plenty.
12.) ESFs need to be larger overall. Scaled to player size they are about half the size they need to be
13.) I think they are fine, and their changes need to applied to other lockons
14.) How would you fix this.
15.) Disagree
16.) This was largely taken care of by the drop pod changes
17.) Agreed, the: "Making them not light up on NV and IR" isn't going to help, because they are still the size of trash can lids
18.) Never heard this before, but how would you fix it?
19.) Never seen this happen. Usually when Harassers drive over tank mines, I see the harasser expode
20.) Agreed.
21.) Eh, abstain.
22.) Disagree here
23.) There already is a jump pad from the wall
24.) Didn't know about this one
25.) They shouldn't go in tunnels, spawn rooms, I'm okay with now, as the drop pod changes mean that they can't get that far.

I dare you, I double dog dare you, to go the vehicle sub-forum and say this.

Wear goggles. When Selentic losses his $#@!, spittle goes everywhere.

1) ZOE should have an on/off toggle timer of 10 seconds to prevent them from simply switching it off right before taking a large damage hit and then immediately back on again. Aegis should have higher movespeed when active and either be wide enough to cover teammates or allow a melee attack, also needs this bug fixed. Lockdown either needs to be scrapped entirely or give some sort of damage resistance while active.
2) Battle rifles minimum damage falloff, bullet velocity, and CoF bloom per shot make them terrible at long range where they're supposed to be good, and they obviously suck at point blank. They are only decent at mid range, but there are so many close + mid range options out there that make them obsolete.
3) Need at least 25 rounds per clip to put them on par with all other carbine/AR damage per clip (except TR carbine/ARs that have 30% more damage per clip across the board)
4) Everything that I said about battle rifles is even more true about the semi auto scout rifle, not to mention the stats on it lie because it drops below 250 damage per shot at 65m, making it a 6 shot kill with nanoweave (half the clip) Full auto scout rifle is a crappier SMG.
5) Agree
6) I'm glad
7) Needs to happen quickly, for some reason TR weapons seem to last the longest in a broken state before getting nerfed.
8) Trust me.
9) Because a phoenix to the face is no longer a 1HKO, while it deals the same damage as a decimator to vehicles. Gotta aim for the vehicle or you won't get the kill. It makes no sense.
10) Make nanoweave additionally resist a small flat amount of damage per hit.
11) PAS need the killing power of the Jackhammer, Jackhammer needs its single fire mode to be less bad at mid-short range again.
12) Fair enough, but if you scale them all the same amount the massive Reaver hitbox is going to get proportionally even bigger.
13) Lockons in a game like this are just a ****** mechanic. They aren't satisfying for the user or the victim, and don't promote skilled play.
14) Phoenix should revert to dumbfire after passing 300m, should kill infantry in one hit on headshot, and should not be outrun by 70% of the vehicles in this game on flat terrain.
15) Currently sensor dart spam by 1 infiltrator in the spawn room can reveal all attacking forces in an entire base, not to mention giving him assist exp for every one killed. 1 infiltrator on the control point with an ammo pack can make it impossible for defenders to get close without being revealed. Basically it emasculates tactical play such as flanking, coordinated entry, multi-pronged assault, etc
16) It was most definitely not, I can still use a spawn beacon from inside the spawn room to hit almost any sunderer anywhere at a base.
17) ☻
18) Give them a better turning radius or predictive tracking based on the target's velocity so they go towards where the target will be when they get there.
19) Trust me, it happens. Going ~85 makes them immune to tank mines.
20) At least for what they do.
21) It's an incredibly good stat to have on weapons, yet it isn't listed in-game and the distribution seems completely random.
22) An NC MAX can fire for 1.67 seconds before it must reload for 3.8 seconds unless it spends 1000 extra certs for extended mags, then it can fire for 3 seconds before reloading for 3.8. A TR MAX can fire for 8.85 seconds before reloading for 3 with no additional investment.
23) I spent 5 minutes walking the walls yesterday, and there was no jump pad.
24) The more you know.™
25) As I said above, I can still land 200m from the beacon. Putting them in the spawn with that kind of range is stupid, and needs to be fixed.

11) What's your opinion on their slugs? Now and then.
14) Also range should be changed to be based on distance not time don't you agree?
22) Yah spending most of your time reloading is no fun. :L

Did not try PA slugs pre-nerf. Post-nerf they seem pretty mediocre. I think in 1500+ hours of play I have been killed by PA slugs maybe twice.
The funny thing is it's based on both distance AND time now, whichever comes first. If you fire it backwards off a harasser it disappears when it reaches 300m from your current location in roughly half the normal flight time. If you fire it while in the air on a jump pad moving forward alongside it, it still disappears after a few seconds despite not being 300m+ away from you. Give it a fuel meter, you can afterburn it to get more speed and less turning ability at the cost of less overall distance, in addition to raising the skill cap.

They haven't nerfed NC AI MAXs yet........ that's got to be something worth betting on.

Pump slugs can headshot now within 18m range. It used to be much longer, but I can't prove it. :L Outside that 18m they will perform equal or worse to normal shotgun slugs in how fast they kill.

So phoenix is more silly than I thought. -.-

1. I agree on the ZOE, some kind of system by which you activate it and can't turn it off... so that you have to choose when to use it would be good (That I kind of stole from PS1, but I think it would work here). Agreed 100% on the Aegis, I kind of think that the NC should get an offensive ability too, and have the Aegis be an ability for all factions, so each max has an offensive, defensive, and rush ability. With Lockdown, the best I have heard as ideas go, is to make it move, but with tank movement physics, so it can't strafe, and has to make wide turns, while taking out some of the ROF buff.
2. I actually use them better at Close range, but I aim for headshots by default, so I am willing to bow out on this one.
3. Eh... Okay.
4. The full auto scout rifle is an interesting gun if used well. It carries enough kick that headshots will eat health faster than LMGs, but the abysmal magazine makes it so you have 1 shot (Much like SMGs). I think the weapon has a place, and I don't mean this insultingly so don't take it as such, but it might just not be the place you are looking for.
5. Good
6. Good
7. It'll be dealt with when it's dealt with I suppose
8. Fair enough
9. It was probably nerfed a bit hard, but the thing about the phoenix is that I still see it used a Lot as a backup strategy for NC at range. Kind of: "Okay front line attack, back line pelt them with phoenix missiles until they are farting blue flames"
10. I thought that was what they proposed to do with Balance pass 1?
11. I disagree. I think the Jackhammer should retain it's awesome killing ability with burst. It's the Special gun, it should be better than anything the other factions can get (PAS included). PAS refire rate could be faster, but that has always been such a difficult weapon to balance well, I don't think opening that particular pandora's box is worth it.
12. Fair enough
13. Okay I am a tad bit confused here. You said that the Striker is now useless, I think it is better where it is at, and all lock-ons should be brought down to it's level, because I agree, Lock-on launchers are nonsense. A ultra-fast skillshot rocket would be nice, so there is an AA option for the dumbfire rocket launchers.
14. That is a bit hyperbolic, phoenix missiles could be a bit faster, but the problem is that if you make them much faster they will be harder to control. The removal of the OHK on headshot, I found a bit much too. OHK on bodyshot, okay that needed to go, but OHK on headshot is fine, should be from Direct fire damage though. I am hoping this will be deal with when they tweak explosives.
15. I would be more okay with this, if there were those additional Infil data gathering options. A drop in range at that point will be good, because you have to choose between the deployable wide range motion sensor, the deployable drone that flies around, and the shorter range but refillable and more plentiful sensor darts. As is, with it being the Only option, I disagree... for now.
16. Hmm, I thought drop pods were made to be much faster. Maybe that was held back or something.
17. Indeed
18. Fair enough, I never used the G-G, I always used and still use the annihalator exclusively (I knew the Striker was going to get nerfed, and frankly saw no point in getting it for that reason)
19. I'll experiment with this myself.
20. I'd say it's when the harasser is heavily armored that it should get those speed changes, not when it's unarmored
21. I understand the use, but I think having 1 weapon of each class for each faction is a bit much, and wanders away from Asymmetrical balance.
22. Yeah the NC max gains the range, but the reason I disagree, is because the NC max shouldn't have overall cheaper weapons than every other faction. That is unfair in and of itself, regardless of the justification.
23. It's in the tower on the SE Corner for sure (Double checks)
24. I thought knowing was half the battle? Damn it GI Joe, you mislead me once again
25. Yeah, if the drop pod speed changes aren't live, they need to be.

I'm good, I apparently "Insulted" someone earlier this evening with forumside nonsense, I am in no mood to stir up the hornets nest on one of these subforums.

The, appearing on your minimap thing might work to help.

Btw, your sig, keep this one.

*Decloaks*

Well if SOE's current actions are anything to judge by, The 3rd balance post will probably cap sniping at 5m until we have to spend money on faction specific slingshots!

*Pulls a cheeky face, cloaks, and runs off*

Are the changes listed in the different threads all coming in 1 bundle or is it gonna be split up and take about as much time as the omfg phases? Maybe its to give us somethingto think and talk about while waiting for new kontent in spring.