Balance Pass Post 1: Vehicle Weapons and the Harasser

Naw, the Aegis is being reduced to a Rusty buckler.....prolly smaller then a WoK..those are kinda big..

This! I'm suprised to not see more people asking for this. If they are set on getting rid of the harasser's edge, fine, but can SOE just "unallocate" the certs I have on the harasser so I can use them somewhere else?

The haraser need a nerf vs a vehicule i am agree. But down composite armor to 8% is too hard. I tested with a max grinder. i need 25hits for explose a haraser without composit armor. with a compo i need 28hits. With liver composit we need 38 hits for explose it. It goes from one extreme to another.

Proximity Radar Change

• Proximity Radar is being moved to the defense slot
  • Proximity Radar is intended to be the defensive warning against approaching infantry with C-4, but it’s become obvious that the other options are vastly preferred in the Utility slot.
  • We feel that moving it to the Defense slot makes more sense for the cert line and that this move gives players clearer defensive options to choose from.

Please give the Proximity Radar a sound or text warning or both. When we get locked on, there is a sound, and a text warning in the HUD. When our proximity radar detects a nearby enemy, there should also be a either a sound, or text, or both. A simple "warning" red text in top of HUD would do it.
Our radar should not be mute. No matter how many enemies are in the 50m range, just a warning for as long as there is any number of enemies in range.

thx.

Harasser is definitely superior to other ground vehicles. But the more I think about it, the more I believe that the solution isn't nerf the harasser, it's buff the other vehicles.

Harasser has something other vehicles are lacking - big fun factor. It's fun to drive, its fun to gun. Driving Magrider used to be fun also, until it was nerfed. Lightnings are the worst - easy to get stuck, very slidy, terrible turret handling. The easiest way to make other vehicles more fun is to improve their turret handling, make turrets auto adjust like secondary guns. Give the Magburn some boost so it's more fun again. In general just try to make the game more fun, not less

I personally can't wait for this update. I seriously don't like to call "nerf" on anything in this game, but Harassers have been needing a castration for a long time.

Same atory here but we.wait for.zoe nerf

A broken egineer tool will still out repair the dps of a phoenix

I'm an avid harasser driver and gunner (#28 for halberd kills on dasanfall with over 3k, and I usually drive; not bragging, just giving some evidence). The outfit that I helped to make (OPTR) was made so the people in it could harass easily rather than having to scroll through our friend's list (and because VDRS sucked ).

THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THE HARASSER IS IN FACT OVERPOWERED AND MUST BE NERFED!

My oufit mates and myself have talked many times about how to nerf the harasser, and I have come up with the conclusion that the harasser is a fragile vehicle to nerf. It's like Goldilocks for example, you do not want to nerf it too little or too much, but just the right amount. The biggest problem is that many of the suggestions that we've come up with are too much of a nerf to make the harasser a viable option as a tank. The argument of not having the harasser be a real "tank" is just not plausible, too many people spend money on cosmetics for the harasser. Why? Because its fast, compact, and looks ******* awesome (why I spent $60 on mine). So SOE wants people to like the harasser and pull it, making it a **** transport vehicle for max units would ruin that, people wouldn't want to spend money on it.

For composite armor, I feel that what people are saying is almost laughable. "c4, rocket rounds, and tank rounds shouldn't be affected by comp armor." Comp armor makes you viable to live for a feasible amount of time, the most common thing that takes out a harasser are MBTs and heavy rockets (c4 not that much which is explainable). Comp armors is also important in defending against actual bullets, so the resistance values MUST remain high.

Pull a harasser without composite armor and see how fast you die... Oh look the AP prowler in lockdown mode/Titan Vangaurd with LOLGODshield/magburning FPC magrider shot you and his gunner but a halberd shot in your ***... you're already dead. Now this might mean that MBTs should be nerfed...I DONT KNOW

The point is that other tanks should find it easy to take out harassers, I know me and the friends that are in the outfit I'm in find it easy to take out even the best harassers with out magriders. We don't even mag that often, and most of the time we're soloing.

The fact is that most of the people who complain about the harasser fall into 2 categories:

1) Bad MBT drivers with uncerted vehicles

2) Farmed infantry

To the bad MBT drivers, get better, you're vehicle is the overpowered one...

But wait, what about lightnings---->THEY ARE UNDERPOWERED! They are so bad! All tanks laugh at a c75 viper lightning when using a tank, they need a buff, they are relatively slow at moving and turning around there butts. I do think though that the skyguard damage buff to the harasser was a good one, where it can't kill a good harasser driver/gunner but will kill and unwary one; or at least do a large amount of damage up close.

To the ones farmed infantry, YOU ARE RIGHT! YOU HEARD ME, HARASSERS ARE WAYYYYYYYYYY OVERPOWERED AGAINST INFANTRY!

Mauraders (especially) and furies have no right! **** it, kobalts and PPA are pretty nasty as well!

For turbo, I'm not sure if it's overpowered, but it makes driving fun (going off of jumps, nuf said). I'd say that level 5 with racer 3 makes it lovely to boost off of cliffs and get out of risky situations. The nerfs that they are proposing are a bit much though, I'd say that small percentage reductions should be made in its effectiveness. Remember, little touch ups all around add up to a hefty nerf.

So here are my SUGGESTIONS for the HARASSER ITSELF:

COMPOSITE ARMOR:

c4 will not kill a harasser at LEVEL 4, not level 1, like now. At level 4, it will put it into the red, at level 5, the health after one c4 will do the same amount of damage as now (we paid 1000 certs for it, it should still put us a little above the red).

As for infantry resistance values towards infantry weapons goes, dumb it down by one rank compared to what it is now. So for example, I believe that right now (not 100% sure) rank 5 is 99% and rank 4 is 95% (numbers seem decieving, but the "actual health" of a harasser or flash or ESF is not that much), so rank 5 should become 95% and so on and so forth. Resistence against other tanks right now is fine

Reason: This way comp armor will not be the "first rank ends all" cert that everyone associates it with, since a lot of certs must be invested until one c4 can be taken. For resistence values, the reason is that your bullets are much more effective (it makes a difference!).

TURBO: Already mentioned, just nerf those regen times by slight percentages (5-10%?) on each level, or the amount of bars needed to start turbo (only by one or two though).

Reason: To punish them if they get to greedy with the infantry kills pretty much.

Now for weapons:

As it stands, I think we can all agree that the halberd and vulcan are overpowered, while the enforcer modified is underpowered (the saron in my opinion is a balanced harasser AV weapon that serves its purpose, but I'm biased towards my faction so I won't say that "we can all agree" on this). I use the halberd, and I don't even like using overpowered weapons, make me feel dirty . Why? Because damn vangaurds and prowlers, that's why, and vulcan harassers too! So in other words, because of other tanks; since they can use those weapons as well.

As for infantry farming, they all need to be nerfed, and dare I say removed...because the nerfs proposed to the harasser still won't stop them all that much ("THEN NERF THE HARASSER MORE" -you guys; "BUT WAIT, REMEMBER GOLDILOCKS, THAT WOULD BE TOO MUCH!" -me). The fury is overpowered, it needs a bit of a nerf, while the maurader is extremely overpowered (check the link below for explanation). As for the PPA, it stands as balanced, its good in certain circumstances, but using it puts you in harms way of lockons a lot of times and ****** by tanks alike. The enforcer modified is a joke as we all know, I can count the number of harassers I've encountered with it on my two hands.

So here are my SUGGESTIONS for TOP-MOUNTED WEAPONS on the HARASSER ITSELF:

AV weapons:

Halberd: Do not nerf armor damage; and possibly get rid of it on MBTs (a bit radical I know, but considerable nonetheless). Also make it so that it does not one shot infantry using nanoweave 3 or more.

Reason: armor damage is fine as is, its an AV weapon (sundies need to be protected people, flashes and lightnings are weak, 3 shots for an ESF is plenty, 6 for a lib is also, galaxies forget it, and MBTs you have no reason to complain). For 2 shot kills on nanoweave 3 or higher, this makes it so that someone who has spent about a 50 certs (I think; 1-10-30?, if its about 100 then that's fine too) can survive one halberd shot. Given the skill to hit a player with a halberd shot, assuming the person is dodging (if you're not you deserve to die just for not dodging , this makes complete sense.

Vulcan: Buff its range, but nerf its damage up close, its ridiculous, and nerf it hard (see link below for explanation). This goes for infantry as well!

Reason: (see link below for explanation).

Enforcer: It's pretty balanced as is

Saron: It's pretty balanced as is

AI weapons:

Fury: Nerf splash damage, its simply too much, no reasoning required. I believe its like 550 right now while direct is 220, make that 550 into 400-450 instead.

Maurader: Effectively twice as good as the fury (8 times when considering price), rethink that weapon SOE you sort of screwed up (I think we can all agree). Make the TR AI weapon something completely different and nerf the **** out of this weapon, give everyone there certs back, so that they can keep there stats on the maurader to make them happy while fixing the problem.

Reason: (see link below for explanation).

PPA: It's pretty balanced as is

Enforcer Modified: Buff it. Expand its range to 15-20 meters, making it a one shot kill from 10 meters away; I bet a lot of people would consider it a fun alternative to the fury for NC.

Kobalt: It's pretty balance most of the time. Sorta overpowered when used in the right way, but doesn't pose a threat to the ps2 community (yet) and there wouldn't be much of a good way to nerf it either besides something like mag size and reload speed (?).

SO THOSE ARE MY OPINIONS, MAKE WHAT YOU WISH OF THEM

I HOPE THAT IF YOU RESPOND TO THIS THAT YOU'VE READ THE FULL THING

I HOPE THAT THIS CLARIFIED SOME THINGS

I HOPE THAT YOU THUMBS UP THIS POST IF YOU AGREE ON THE MAJORITY OF THESE THINGS

SO THAT SOE CAN SEE THIS STUFF!!!!!!

I HOPE THAT YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WHEN REBUTALING MY VIEWS

Here is the link I was referenceing about the maurader and vulcan (TR plz dont flame post)

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2...top-guns-and-what-needs-to-be-changed.142827/

Not to mention, HAPPY HOLIDAYS AND HAPPY NERFING!

#rainbowwalloftext

Alarox said: ↑

“So basically...

2.) People who complain about Harassers are just bad tankers or infantry

My response:

2.) The Harasser is overpowered relative to pretty much anything it fights for the same reason. High damage output, high speed, repairing on the move. Against infantry, they slaughter pretty much everything without fear. Against MBTs, as long as the Harasser team isn't bad or stupid, they usually won't lose. Sure, they may have to run away and repair, but they can come back again, and again, and again, and again. The MBT team has to hit a target moving around 100KPH that can turn on a dime (thus they need to stay stationary). So the MBT has to make multiple difficult shots while the Harasser has turret stabilization and needs to hit a large stationary target. The result is the MBT having significantly reduced damage output against the Harasser (because they need to take time aiming the shots or because they miss them), while the Harasser keeps normal damage output against the tank. And if the tank actually manages to get the Harasser to low health, they can easily turbo away and repair, then come back or just run.”

I'd say that even the good harasser teams with certed harassers can be killed easily by mediocre MBTs that are decently certed, especially with a gunner. The BIGGEST mistake people make, and its the reason they die, is that they never get out and repair.

Alarox said: ↑

“So basically...

3.) MBTs are overpowered

My response:

3.) I disagree. They have counters and and threaten infantry much less than an AI Harasser. Unlike the Harasser, they can also be focus fired without the capacity to flee, and are much easier to kill with aircraft.”

Don't compare MBTs to AI harassers, MBTs are meant to kill tanks (usually), not infantry. They're also meant to attack from afar. Yes they are, underpowered when it comes to air, but we're talking about AV harasser vs. MBT fights here.

Alarox said: ↑

“So basically...

4.) Make composite armor worse against C4

My response:


4.) I agree, but this doesn't balance the harasser.”

Harassers are too fast, many people complain about comp armor making them unable to destroy them while they can easily escape and repair. This makes it a bit easier to do just that against the risk takers. Combined with other nerfs, it makes a reasonable difference without over-nerfing the vehicle.

Alarox said: ↑

“So basically...

5.) Give a slight nerf to turbo

My response:

5.) I disagree.”

Same reason as above, nerfing the regen times slightly punishes the risk-takers, but a only a little bit in each aspect of the vehicle.

Alarox said: ↑

“So basically...

6.) The Vulcan and Halberd are overpowered and everyone agrees
7.) Nerf the Halberd into the dirt and remove it from MBTs
8.) Nerf the Vulcan's close range damage and make it accurate at a range

My response:

6.) I disagree. In fact, I would wager that the majority of people think the Vulcan is a powerful (not overpowered) but niche weapon and the Halberd is reasonably balanced.
7.) I really don't get your logic here.
8.) The problem is that you would end up being better off with a Basilisk, and this would potentially give it the capacity to slaughter infantry (which SoE wants to avoid I suppose).”

The vulcan is a niche weapon, but its TOO good at close range, that's why I want to LOWER THE DAMAGE and extend its consistency at range BY MAKING A TIGHTER BULLET SPREAD FOR LONGER BY ONLY A SMALL AMOUNT (excuse the caps, they're not for anger ), check out the values in the original post, I believe its like a couple of meters.
I'm not actually nerfing the halberd into the dirt, only the AI aspect of it, which doesnt play much of a role with the weapon but causes a lot of ********. This change also won't affect most players because of the upcoming nanoweave nerf, and since they need rank 3 (not as big as a reason, but still is one).

Alarox said: ↑

“So basically...

9.) Nerf the hell out of the Marauder and Fury

My response:

9.) They're balanced on every vehicle except the flash and Harasser. Overpowered on the Harasser because infantry have no way to reliably fight back, not because the damage output is too high.”

The fury nerf is not a big one, it'll take one extra round to kill infantry...
The maurader NEEDS to be nerfed badly I mean come on
I'd have to disagree with you on the thought that they're balanced on every vehicle. Fury GSD sundies can do a lot, but the real problem is with maurader prowlers camping the amp station point...Now that's a nightmare.

Alarox said: ↑

“9.) Even if you nerfed them, it wouldn't do anything but make the”

Yes, but with the other nerfs, those drive-bys will be a lot harder to pull off, or at least you'll have to be a lot more careful about your driving.

By the way, thank you for organizing your post, it was lovely to respond to

Both of those posts were from a very long thread of mine which got a lot of attention before being ended and said to have moved here. They are the "gist" of the conversation which I think is important. Anyone who cares to offer a suggestion or cares about the changes being made ought to read what is above. Thank you.

What no ZOE MAX in the List?
I guess if it's not TR's it doesn't need fixing.. :S

Given the caveat that I am an absolute Planetside noob and have not done much vehicle driving myself, I think the general direction for the Harasser nerf is correct, they should be vulnerable to small arms fire, their main defense should be speed. I do think the composite nerf is too much in the other direction. Ultimately I ask myself the question: would I spend certs on composite armour now? Would you?

Yeah im using the saron on a harraser, and its kind of lame. All targets just stroll away if you shot from range, and if i get close im out-DPS´s by all except the viper lightning pretty much. Vulcan, well i dont need to explain what happens if i get close to that, but the enforcer is even worse, not only does the vanguard have so much HP it can drive all the way back to WG while im shooting it. The enforcer alone will just pop you in less than half its mag at any range.

TR detected. Come on, what is the niche for the Vulcan? That it's good against air, infantry, and armor at low, medium, and long ranges?

It's the exact opposite of a niche weapon.

Every time when I see a harasser flee after destroying a tank + couple infantries for a quick repair while driving, this video always appears in my head.

So a big "balance patch" happened today but Proximity Radar was not switch from Utility to Defense slot. What is the status of this possible change so those of us trying to plan our cert expenditures can plan around it?

I personally would really like PR to stay in Utility because I drive a Lightning and moving PR would leave them with only 2 options, one of which (IR Smoke) is the obvious choice if you have to face TR Strikers.

As it turns out, this change is live. Is the Lightning really going to be left with a choice between only IR Smoke and Fire Suppression just to MBTs don't have to give up their ES ability in order to have radar?

This patch nerf the s* out of my Life , as a tanker , flasher and gunner .

What really kills me is how bad they left the secondary weapons for the tanks, worst thing they ever done is nerf the halberd,