Balance Pass Post 1: Vehicle Weapons and the Harasser

1. The magrider can't drive diagonally to drive faster then other tanks. Driving diagonally slows the magrider down.
2. Distance does in fact reduce the number of threats, espesially dumbfire.
3. a 10% reduction in reload speed does not equal a 20%, nor a 16% DPS increase. For a prowler its less then 10% because it doesn't increase the .5 second delay between shots.
4. The DPS in anchored more is incomparable to reload speed. The velocity bonus alone allows the prowler a huge ranged advantage.
5. If you look at the stats, a half second was accounted for between shots to allow the prowler to 'reaim'. It equals 2400 every 3 seconds. 2.5 for reload .5 for re-aim. You yourself said it takes .5 seconds to reaim.
6. Because the prowler fires 2 shots he is effectively twice as effective against infantry given that almost everyone uses AP and direct hits = kills. (vast majority of scenarios for vehicles)

Again, look at your math, and apprentice a TR guy who can show you how and when to use anchor. I'm afraid its going to be very hard to convince anyone that such a massive DPS bonus is insignificant

you mean, like Planetside before they realized it's a terrible idea and made it 360 ? Why not, after all SOE has a tradition in repeating it's own mistakes, and it wouldn't be the first one to arrive from shortly-after-release-PS1

1. OK

2. You misunderstand, where do battles take place at such a distance that anchored mode can actually be used? More importantly, where do these battles take place where anchored mode can be used and actually be decisive?

3. .5 is 20% of 2.5. Anchored mode "increases reload speed" by 48% at max level. It does not decrease the time between the two shots.

4. And makes it a sitting duck

5. Half a second is not enough time to consistently find your point of aim again. You are not a prowler driver. You are a Vanu player. Upon firing, the gun jumps and then begins returning to neutral, but the second shot happens before it's done this. The gun never stops moving between the two shots. If you want both shots to land, you need to pause between shots.

6. I can't account for people using their tools incorrectly. The faction specific anti armor secondaries all deal more damage than even the AP main cannon in a tank fight. Really the only time the AP cannon is better than the HEAT is when you find yourself in a DPS race with another main battle tank.

Any distance where a 225 m/s projectile would begin to be hard to aim would be a good general distance.
In esimir, this is nearly everywhere. Its terribly easy to find a nice hill a bit off from the main battle where you can snipe the enemy's side/rear without giving them the ability to respond effectively.
In indar...

• The cliffs at the SE warpgate.
• The goatpath north of the south tech plant.
• The hills south of the crown
• Just north of the crown
• the goat path northeast of the SW techplant.
• All over the cliffs around the SE techplant.
• any place where you can deploy in anticipation of enemy armor approaching from a distance

How decisive? The DPS is generally high enough to kill tanks before they can return fire. The odds of their friends noticing is low as well. One or two well-placed prowlers can change the tide of the battle.

Reload certs only increase it by 10% unless prowler is some exception to this it would be getting only .25 seconds. If the prowler is an exception the prowler's DPS advantage is even more powerful (also, if it is I'd be extremely angry, 10% is low)

A serious advantage in firepower balanced by a disadvantage in mobility doesn't make the whole thing useless. It gives you the best of both worlds. You can be the fastest MBT for getting to position, then deploy, then undeploy and retreat. They have amazing synergy.

Again, you said .5 seconds was enough, and your statement is a whole 'if' scenario, where if your under 20 meters the opposite is true. I can full auto a 75mm viper and land all 6 on a distant target. I'm sure prowler drivers can handle a .5 second break to refire.
From my experience as a victim, I believe they can.

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the AP cannon has a 20% armor ignore bonus. Its roughly 25% more powerful then heat, and has a 25m/s velocity bonus. This is why everyone runs with AP except those who haven't certed it yet (expensive)


All fights are a DPS race, and thats the sum of everything. Your 'armor' is your DPS, and its very high. You can kill a target so fast you can escape fatal situations.

I flanked a wounded prowler in an AP lightning. I gleefully drove right behind it, and shot him. Sadly, he was fully certed in deploy, and I was pretty much killed instantly.

As a lightning I like fighting vannys more then prowlers, because I can at least escape a vanguard. the DPS of a prowler is so high that I generally can't escape the encounter if I'm spotted. When deployed they can snipe me from across the map.

Esamir seems like it would, but apart from the river beds (That have covered bridges) all the terrain is too uniformly rolling for an anchored prowler to have any kind of decent field of fire. Plus, every facility has those curtain walls so the prowler can only go so far in any battle, and being anchored gives the infantry plenty of time to find their hold-over.

There's not really much of a road on those south east cliffs of Indar and even assuming you did, you'd get more out of driving a sunderer out there. Spawning infantry can defend against air attacks and won't run out of ammo, something any tank would be much worse at dealing with.

Broken Arch Road is dominated by vanguards. Zero tank sized cover, very much infantry sized cover. I've taken anchored mode here, couldn't find a vantage point. Not like it matters, broken arch road battles are dominated by the high ground, and no tank has the gun depression to fire down from there.

South of the crown is Magrider country. If you lose a 1v1 tank fight there in a mag rider you're doing something wrong. If you mean west of crossroads watchtower, that's also not a good place for anchored mode. Believe me, I've tried. An anchored prowler here might as well paint a giant target on its hull. No, that's where the cavalry tank comes into play. Use the terrain to get close, then light em up from behind with the vulcan.

West of the crown there actually is a good spot for anchored mode. And by west of the crown, I mean the cliff overlooking Ti alloys. That's it, and now you face an uphill battle into another example of Mag Rider country, allatum botany wing.

North of the crown you don't need a tank, you have two AV turrets covering that approach plus however many heavy assaults you have around.

I cannot remember the last time I made it far west enough on Indar to actually fight at Havar so I don't know the terrain. I don't think TR has had the southwest warp gate since Indar was updated. Anyway, what the map doesn't show is all the trees. That area is a dense forest, once again favoring the cavalry tank style prowler. I'm sure if a Magrider ever got that far south it would be right at home as well.

Tanks can't use the cliffs around Tawrich. The part around red ridge you can drive on is much smaller than the map would have you believe. There's a tiny spot around red ridge communications where you can see down, there's barely any field of fire for you. If the tech plant guns are opposing you, they'll have you smoking before you've even finished deploying.

All MBT main cannon reload certs remove .1 per level, even for the prowler.

I said that's how much time you get, not how much time is enough. .5 seconds isn't even enough time for the gun to stop moving. You read that into what I said. The Viper has barely any recoil. If you think the level of recoil is of the P2-120 and the viper is comparable you've never even touched a prowler.

I'm not sure what to say to this, but now I have a funny imagine in my head of a Vanu guy going around slapping people with a glove and challenging them to a duel.

OK, maybe if you're following Napoleonic era combat doctrine? You really need to attack the enemy where they can't defend, that's seldom a stand up fight over an open field.

It's an online FPS, there's always another guy.

LOL that includes the enforcer cause its a grenade launcher.

Esimir is filled with hills that tanks can climb to snipe other vehicles. I use them with my lightning, but I need to compensate my aim really bad. I'd die to have a deploy ability to make full use of it.

The places I listed are places actual live prowlers set up in. I see it all the time. It works. I don't know what more I can say.

You said the prowler needs at least .5 seconds, then went back on it. It doesn't change a thing if it takes 1 seconds, but I can't make a debate if the parameters keep fluctuating. I tested it, and the fluctuation is hardly noticable. Your exaggerating. The vipers got just as much kick if not more.

But upon checking some of this information I noticed that they ninja buffed reload certifications sometime. Couldn't have been too long ago.

FOR EVERY TANK BUT THE LIGHTNING!

Ridiculous, just ridiculous.

That half a second for the prowler nets them a higher percentage bonus then the vanguard and mag because their reload was only 2.5 seconds to begin with
Also, your still not getting half the benefit of anchor from reload speed, since that judgement was passed only on one of the three bebefits anchor gets you (damage, velocity, reload speed)

But I'm pretty upset to see my tank ignored in some ninja patch for no reason, and thats my new main concern

The reason why they are decimating magriders and lightnings is its positioning of a good commander. A height advantages always win. Just imagine your magriders were on top of that same hill looking down at that amount of TR MBT and lightnings you will get the same freaking results. So what you just said is invalid. We are only making a 40% damage bonus only if we hit our target with both of the shots while you are guaranteed that damage when you hit the target.

... Lightning ...... Its a light armor to tear through infantry whatcha expect lol? Maybe if only lightning were like harassers. You must be thinking of that right. They should buff lightning to move faster maybe around the same speed or a little bit slower than a harasser since the armor is lighter than MBT.

what do I expect? The same treatment they gave to MBTs!
Its not a light armor designed to tear through infantry. It clearly has an AP cannon, and a skyguard.
There is NO reason the lightning was ignored for a reload speed buff besides being overlooked.
1500 certs into reload is .30 seconds reload speed for the lightning.

What gives devs!!!! Show us the same love!!!

More sad that this was a stealth buff. Nothing like being ignored in a stealth buff

The lightnings been a good AP vehicle since game launch, and it'd be even better if the devs didn't ignore it. I'm quite proud that I got upwards of 1900 vehicle kills in mine now, and I take offense to those who think that for some reason the harasser replaced it. Like the guy complaining about prowlers (to a guy who uses an AP lightning), if you don't use abstract thought you'll fail to see how things can be used to your advantage.

The AP lightning has many advantages over its competitors

1. Its typically viewed by MBTs as "not a threat" because most are AA and AP.
2. It has the smallest front/rear hitbox
3. It is the fastest tank by a large margin
4. It can use 3rd person mode better then MBTs and effectively fire on the move with practice.
5. It has the second best main cannon (which just got pseudo nerfed via reload speed, Thanks Devs!)
6. It has the lowest profile, and thus can cover under small inclines and declines.
7. It is highly resistant to the MBTs biggest weaknesses. Infantry and Air. Air is wary because it may be a skyguard, and infantry have to deal with the lightnings fast speed, fast repair, and smoke (which a lightning is far more likely to carry)
8. Its slim enough to squeeze into several areas most tanks can't.
9. It requires no gunner
10. It costs 50% less then an MBT
11. its cheaper to cert into
12. it is more readily available.
13. The lightning chassis is more diverse in roles (best AA cannon, best AI cannon, Powerful AP cannon)

So, yeah, the AP lightning exists, and is quite good in skilled hands. Typically I take full stealth and smoke into the flanks and 1-2 shot anything thats wounded. I've decimated entire tank lines before by ruining their repair cycle, and remaining undetected.

So you're saying "Make a 3 active seat vehicle weaker than a one seat vehicle"? No. It's like asking that Libs be nerfed in favor of ESFs. More people in it=more power.

Bottom of the tank food chain? Really? Because I just came from a gaming session where one Magrider with saron destroyed 3 sunderers on The Palisade and everyone around it failed to kill it because of it's insane mobility and hill climbing. It was acting like a harasser, quickly moving behind hills and repairing, then coming back. Another time, one magrider killed my harasser, and then 5 sunderers one by one starting from the last and moving towards the first before it got destroyed. Inside was a BR100 guy. I too thought that Magriders are the weakest tanks, until I started playing as NC. I'm not saying the Vanguard is weak, but the Magrider is definitely strong with the 2 right people in it.

Sounds like your Sunderers didn't have gunners.

An AA lightning could do that better. drop to 3rd person, drop smoke and dodge dumb fires. Run off to autorep between. The skyguard tears sundys up. Its probably not a good indicator of how balanced it is though.

In the second case some of them probably didn't, or the sunderers were ill equipped for tanks (Bulldog+Walker combinations seem to be the hit these days). But people WERE trying to destroy it. In the first example, I was witness to something grand. Such use of terrain was truly worthy of praise.

If people didn't have the appropriate weapons or weren't using them right, it wasn't the "goodness" of the Magrider. It was the badness of the other players.

We can disagree, but I have been killed by strong magriders and no one can convince me that it was dumb luck. Aside from that, the whole game revolves around who you encounter. No tank can survive an organized defense, it's not only the Magrider that goes down.

Skill gap. We all know, there's always someone better.

But lets not mesh this with vehicle balance.

You do realize you are contradicting yourself by pointing out all the good points of a lightning. The reason why i said it is a anti-infantry is because of the stock weapon the viper a 6 shot which is good against infantry, a higher survivability against a group of infantry rather against mbt.

Its honestly hard to figure out just what you were trying to point out in your statement. The lightning is not defined by its default gun, and I'm not trying to make biased balance arguments, so making points about a vehicles advantages as well as its disadvantages is not a bad practice at all. I doubt anyone would read between those two posts and decide. "No I think we should screw lightnings out of a fair reload cert line"