Balance Pass Post 1: Vehicle Weapons and the Harasser

Harassers are truely much harder to kill than mbts for infantry.(mostly because they are harder to hit with dumbfire and AV turrets - which are a bit too powerfull imho anyway). However I wouldn't go as far and say they are imune to air. I can kill harassers quite reliably with the mossy nosegun and I am far far away from a being a good pilot.(mostly pilots use rocketpods against them which is a bad idea).
I honestly like that sunderers can't be defended by infantry alone, because it creates a niche/role for mbts that hunt vehicles which are honestly way to scarce. If all those dozens of lightings and mbts would stop running he/heat and farm every base the zerg is rolling into and instead would go out and around the base to defend the ams everybody would be happy, because infantry isn't tank camped anymore, ai harassers would have a hard time reaching your infantry and the tank drivers might actually find some nice tank battles again ( and esf and libs some area with vehicles that isn't covered by a million anti air lockons.


Edit: NCs have a hard time without strikers and lancers. Striker seems to mostly hit harassers ( different flight mechanic?) I'd provide the other lockons with the same mechanic so factions are on equal ground. Despite I don't like the lockons alltogether but it is a easy short term fix.

Hitting a Harrasser with a Pheonix is plain tricky, and it mostly comes down to luck no matter how skillful you are, because if the Harrasser is even just going flat out in a straight line it will out run the Phoenix unless it is heading straight at you (the problem there is you're likely in their LOS and will probably be dead any second), no matter if you keep it 100% on target.

I so wish I'd got video of a Harrasser chasing a Liberator, pretty sure it killed it too, it was a true Benny Hill moment.

Only effective way I have found of using a Phoenix against a harasser is to use it in extreme CQC. Of course, this often results in death to the Phoenix user but at least it guarantees damage.

Wasnt talking about Harasser getting hit with Pheonix, was a reason why i pull harasser over tanks

If your on Miller, may of been me and squad mate, we have chased a few and been chased by a few, lol. Like a dog chasing a car, always funny

I am beginning to think Seb hates us

You seem pretty angry buddy why don't you take a seat and tell us more about it??

Zoe buff.
They are also replacing magburn with zoe.
Finally, lasers will be allowed to fire through shields.

I heard an NC guy on yell chat scream "HAH VS YOU GONNA CRY WHEN OE IS NERFED"
I laughed, at lest we got something worth nerfing

Proximity Radar is essential because your attention is focused towards the sky most of the time. It helps alert you when enemy infantry are getting close to rocket or C-4 you.

As a bonus, your teammates will also see the enemies on their mini-map. This helps you get protection from any player within your sphere of influence.

I thought radar on vehicles only benefitted the driver? So it doesnt help someone standing outside.

Lol, spat my tea out.

Mean, but so funny

The second part isn't true. Only you can see them with prox.

I just upvoted him after seeing this for the lulz. Can you make a reservation for me in hell too?

We have a hard time in general. Mostly as a result of SOE. Instead of balancing each faction independently of each others strengths they would rather do sweeping board changes that affect each faction disproportionately (HE and HEAT, AP changes to tanks across every faction, the shotgun nerfs affecting our MAX unit, and rocket launcher changes). The only reason I do not regret playing NC is because of my outfit. Despite all the grumpyness we do our best to stay positive and competitive.

I like that sunderers cant be defended by infantry alone too, and part of what I like about the Test realm server is the nerf to squad deploy just deporting you to the nearest viable spawn to the leader. This make maintaining logistics more important. if we get some changes to make AV unusable at longer ranges, and a good buff to the NC max that makes it more usable outdoors and more effective at point defence.

Then we might see some flicker of light at the end of the dark tunnel that is our efforts to play this game.

I honestly don't know what to do with your max shotguns. I still think they have been to strong ( in cqc situations) before all those nerfs.
They are totally outclassed on range tough.
A NS Max AI weapon might be an alternative (or lets say an easy workaround) so NC can use viable weapons at other locations ( similar to fury instead of enforcer, or the NS infantry weapons.)

So let me get this straight. Right before the performance push we were going to have an ESF update. The ESF update really only consisted of giving the ESFs more weapons and didn't really balance much of anything. Those didn't make it in the game. Now they aren't even on the immediate agenda for balance anymore?

LMAO at the jackboots who think this is going to fix everything. Classic SOE Balance: We can see there's a problem with X, so we're removing Y, putting Z in another slot, and we're adding A, B, C, and D to the Depot for you to buy with SC. No wonder this game is hemorrhaging players...

Since most people seem to be more interested in the MAX adjustments, nanoweave and snipers, etc., allow me to explain why this balance pass is going to do next to nothing of note.

Weapon Adjustments:
AV weapons will remain the same against vehicles, with slightly reduced performance against infantry. Why? Likely because the forumside warriors cry that the Vulcan overperforms at AI. I actually agree, but it isn't TR's fault, or the Vulcan. This is what happens when you make multiple changes to a weapon at the same time. You know, the same stupid **** that we've been putting up with since the game launched, on almost every vehicle platform. Do you know why the Vulcan is overperforming, SOE? It's because you altered the recoil/COF/bloom mechanic, and buffed it against infantry AT THE SAME TIME! It did need one of those changes, it wasn't fun spraying a 30 (later 60) round magazine at a guy at 40m and praying to get a few hits. Just like it isn't fun to be sniped by some sasshat in a Harasser at 200m, since he can just burst fire and kill you in 6 shells, with an AV weapon.

Side-note: removing OHK from the Halberd, at any range, will completely ruin it. The AI capability is already balanced by the limited ammo, long refire time (compared to other AI weapons, which can kill several people per magazine), and the fact that anyone with a clue uses zoom (harder to pick out infantry). As the only true long-range secondary (sorry Saron/Enforcer), and something available to everyone through NS, this needs to be the point the others are balanced around. On one hand, I want to see more weapon diversity, but the Halberd is the only viable AV weapon for all three factions.

Anti-personnel weapons will receive a damage increase at very close range against infantry and light armor (Harasser). Cool, that might be useful, if anyone ever chose AI secondaries for something other than farming. SOE has made it painfully obvious that vehicles are only supposed to fight vehicles, and we (vehicle users/crew) are not allowed to rain hellfire on the special snowflake infantry. Good job, SOE, I'm sure that BR20 spamming UBGL from the spawn room makes you plenty of money compared to the vehicle players that love to kit out their favorite ride. Ironically, the Kobalt is already one of the best secondaries for taking out Harassers. No one knows this, though, because no one really uses the Kobalt, or reads my long-winded explanations on the forums.

I want to know what classifies as Anti-Personal weapons. Some are obviously one or the other. What about the Bulldog, which still sucks? It does both, neither well, so which way is that going to go? I guess it's too much to ask for the Ranger to get a little love, also. Damage drop-off on AI weapons will ruin the one good use for the Kobalt, and adding damage drop-off to the grenade launchers is probably the most backwards thing I've ever heard. Why don't we just buff all the grenade-launcher secondaries, and give them a minimum arming distance? Nah, that makes sense.

Harasser weapons getting their own special range nerfs to force them into close-quarters. On one hand, this is a step in the right direction, further differentiating normal secondaries from Harasser weapons. Except, this won't really do anything. If I can't survive in close range, I'm going to sit through the longer TTK and use exclusively long-range weapons. You know, like I already do.

I'm simply skipping the Prox Radar change. Depending what you drive and how you play, this is either the best/worst news in these notes, or it means absolutely nothing.

General Vehicle Weapons Balance Pass
In addition to everything listed above, we’re taking a pass at all vehicle weapons in order to even out the performance and the various tradeoffs between the different faction weapons.

^--- This is the only one that really matters. Balance out the tank primaries. Give the C-85 some love. Adjust the range or damage on the Ranger, and give it more reserve ammo. Do something for the Bulldog. Also, make a press release explaining to everyone that the Marauder was garbage for a long time, it got a small, much needed buff, and the only reason it seems stupidly OP is because of the heavy-handed nerfs to the Fury (and the fact that it costs 250 certs, like all the other ES AI weapons).

Harrasser changes:
If you didn't know, I defend the Harasser, because frankly, someone has to. I understand the frustration, I've been on both sides of the table. I also know that, while most people agree something needs to change, there is chaos in the ranks as to what that should be.

Apparently, SOE thinks the problem is that Harassers aren't vulnerable enough to C4 and Tank-Mines. As many, many people have pointed out, it doesn't really matter. Ever tried to C4 a Harasser? There's only one good way to do it: Throw C4 at your feet on the backside of a hill, and jump up and down to bait the enemy into going for a roadkill. Frankly, the C4 changes are whatever, it wasn't a threat before, and this will do nothing to augment that.

The tank-mine changes, though, are poorly thought out. I just posted last week, the tank-mine damage is almost perfect. One takes you down about 65-70%, forcing the Harasser away to repair if you don't actually kill it. 2 mines: Kaboom. I maxed out mine-guard to see how it faired. It reduces your incoming mine damage by 71%. Someone do the math, but I believe 4 mines will now set it on fire, and 5 will kill it? If you're giving up defense against everything else (except C4 now), no stealth, no NAR, I think that's a fair trade. Likewise, when do you ever see 5 or more mines?

The real issues with tank-mines are laggy detonation, a lack of good spots to place them (few real chokepoints, few shadows, few flora to hide them in), and a general unwillingness of your average player to bother laying a mine-trap before bum-rushing the point for his 30xp from flipping the cap. The first problem is apparently getting attention, someone posted a reddit thread yesterday where a player datamined the new PTS build and found tank mines have received some serious adjustments. I will miss the days of pulling burnouts at engineers, detonating their own tank-mines in their face as I drive away laughing, but I figured the good times would end eventually. The second problem is base design, optimization, and the love players have of driving on paved surfaces. The final one is, TBH, an L2P issue. If you don't want to lay mines, or man a turret on your Sunderer, you don't deserve to keep it, and I will take advantage of that situation.

So, remember above where I mentioned the problem with the Vulcan was too many changes at once, without really judging their efficacy? Get ready for round 2 with tank-mines and Harassers. At the very least, people will actually try things other than composite armor.

LOL, you gotta be kidding. The problem with composite armor is not the resistance level. The real issue is that a stock Harasser doesn't have ENOUGH HEALTH to have a fighting chance running anything else. Been saying it for months, I've read at least two good threads that reached the same conclusion. Fights are never really even numbers in this game. I don't think the Harasser should be the end-all be-all force multiplier, but with the crappy state of tanks, it has come to that. You simply can't go up against superior numbers without composite armor and expect to live. Stealth should be our best choice, it is currently a distant second.

So, what's my solution to this problem? Simple: delete Harasser Composite Armor. There, I said it. Up the base resistances, or give the vehicle more health. For those who don't understand, keeping low resistance and adding health would make repairs take longer, and make it easier to force a Harasser to leave and repair, as they take more damage per shot. Nerfing Composite Armor, again, isn't going to solve anything. It helped so much this summer when it was tried the first time, ... wait, no, it didn't do jack ****.

TL|DR: The pendulum is swinging back, Harassers are going from super-MBT to 3-seat flash, and most of the proposed changes aren't going to do anything to make this situation better. How about we rebalance all of the ground weapons, fix mana AV turret render issues and lock-ons from outside of render range, stabilize tank-turrets, re-balance or remove ES secondaries, and give most vehicles (Lightning, MBT, Sunderer) another equipment slot of one type or another. At the same time, buff C4 deploy time only (faster drops = easier to stick vehicles), and let us put weapon camo on tank mines so they are harder to see. Also, remote detonate the testicles of anyone using the call-out exploit with their AV turret. Hell, maybe even notice that the new Esamir sucks, and knock down half the walls or make HE/splash damage something to fear again.

So, one more time, LOL at everyone who thinks this is going to save Planetside. At least it will spice up forumside for a few months...

OMG KOBALT BUFF, WOOOOOOOOOT!

I think we need a new set of AV weapons that give the role that each MBT doesn't have with its current ESAV MBT weapon. Saron and the Vulcan are more close/mid range based while the Enforcer is more long range. Instead of changing those yet again just give us new weapons to fit what we don't have.

No changes needed to the harasser to be honest. Just remove back seat repair and extend the hitbox to include the weapon(to many times have I been killed by harassers where I can only see their gun).

I like. As far as vehicle weapons go, you guys really need to rebuff all the HE weapons on vehicles (MBTs, Lightning, Liberator), you buffed flak armor after you nerfed our weapons and it should have happened in reverse. If someone was getting farmed by a tank they should have been able to put on armor that reduced the damage of it, not reducing the damage so they never die from it. On the other hand I do think if you were to rebuff HE weapons you would need to increase rank 1 flak armor to 25% and increase rank 5 flak armor to 75%.

Again, nothing needs to be nerfed about the harasser but the back seat repairing.

Excited and scared. Most of all I hope you finally fix ZOE. Restore our faith in you!

It's like hunting any other predator vehicle in PS2... the first salvo needs to come from an unexpected direction, while the prey is in the middle of open ground. That gives you good odds that they can't make it to cover or counter-attack before that second salvo lands.

(Lock-on rockets are stand-off weapons. Against fast moving vehicles that can close the distance, you need to start at least 150m away from your target. If you're closer then 150m, attempting to use a lock-on G2G is a death wish unless the enemy is very preoccupied.)

The main reason that other G2G lock-ons are not as effective comes down to the velocity of the rocket. The other G2G rockets move too slow which makes it too easy for the Harasser to get around a corner and break lock before the rocket lands.

A man can dream of stability in his vehicles can't he!? Ideally flipping vehicles would be like the videos of players stacking Vanguards; something from beta that people would laugh at and wonder how it was possible.

I'd better enjoy it twice as much, before the nerf hammer cracks down upon my beloved anti-tank zerg fighting machine.

I couldn't stop laughing when I read this because I too complained about this. Prime example is yes the Vulcan but also HE weapons with the nerf to weapons when all we needed was a buff to flak armor(although I think flak armor for infantry should be further buffed to 75% at rank 5).

As for the rest of the post it was a good read through and I definitely agree and respect many of your opinions. The harassers low base health was a very good example of what is wrong with it but I'm curious as to why you didn't list back seat repairing as being a problem. Personally I think the single most broken thing with the harasser is that it can repair whenever it wants on the move even through taking damage, we have NAR for a reason but I know people don't use it because composite is too vital. Maybe if they removed the back seat repairing and decreased the waiting before repair it would be better balanced for the vehicle.