Balance of power... did NC draw the short straw?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by zanthal, Jun 9, 2015.

  1. JohnGalt36

    [IMG]
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  2. RangerYork

    Honestly The Phoenix isn't even that good in comparison to the Lancer, especially in combined teams. The New Conglomerate looks and sounds good on paper, but you have to take everything to the field to get any actual results. Gauss Saw vs Carv is easily the Carv coming out on top, because regardless of damage per shot, 9 times out of 10 in any FPS, fire rate comes out over Damage per shot, that and the popcorn style recoil the Gauss Saw has. Only real rule breaker are bolt actions, but that's beside the point. VS have 3 guns, best to my knowledge, with unlimited ammo. The TR have guns that average at 750-800 RoF as compared to the average of 500-750 of the NC, so basically any CQC firefight without shotguns is an immediate advantage for the TR. Granted we have the Tross, which is the best long range assault rifle, but you have to have open sight lines, and every situation that most NC guns are good, are situations, which are entirely situational. The New Conglomerate could easily be on top if every situation was open sight lines, always getting the first shot on your opponent, and you hit 2 or more headshots. And I haven't even mentioned the .75 movement speed with the damn Betelgeuse, Orion, and the SVA-88. Literally dancing around your opponents while ADS is a serious design flaw in a multiplayer game. Ravens are still outstanding, but the VS charge up AA Max gun can be used just like the Lancer, in a group of 3 or 4 you can absolutely wreck an armor convoy. Lancer charged completely does 750, at least I'm pretty sure it does, as does the Phoenix. The Lancer gets 2, almost instant shots, Phoenix gets one and a lengthy reload, but it's considered "balanced" because you can control the rocket, which I guess is understandable. Our Vanguard definitely seems to be on top, but only if you have someone experienced at the helm. Our air is easily the most underpowered, considering the Reaver flies like a fridge compared to the Mossy or Scythe, both of which seem to be more maneuverable. Overall the NC have an advantage in shotgun engagements assuming it's a semiautomatic shotgun, longer range engagements, being the joke of any alert thanks to Wisdomcube, and being Harasser bait. Most of the book above is from my personal experience with the NC, and maybe I'm just garbage, but the balance does seem a bit tilted away from the blue anarchists.
  3. asmodraxus

    Guess you must be an NC going Wat?

    1) its spelt What, but then all the empires can argue that they are weak
    2) There are some nuggets of gold amongst the VS weapons but they are few and far between, NC have the best selection of infantry weapons, the phoenix s usable but weakish compared to the Lancer but compared to the Striker well...

    Lets see to argue the NC is weak

    Our max units have no long range AI weapons.
    Our heavy weapon is merely a pump action and has no range.
    Phoenix is has only an effective range of 280m
    The NC has to spend certs on a clone of a beamer ffs, can it get improved!
    The Vanguard is the lowest scoring tank, and the HE turret has the same splash as the magriders splash but is slower at reloading wtf is with that?
    and so on
  4. Vargs

    I like NC weapons the most. By far my favorite LMGs, a wide variety of fantastic ARs, and perfectly fine carbines. The Vanguard is easily my favorite tank, Ravens are amazing, the Jackhammer is the only ES HA primary that I like, and the Phoenix is at least okay. The Canister is pretty solid for anti-infantry nowadays, and the Enforcer is good, if a bit boring. For all the complaining about them, the only significant aspect of the NC that I'm not a big fan of are their AI MAXes. Short range/low mag capacity shotguns just don't have anywhere near the versatility and sustainability I want out of an AI MAX.

    I've kinda stopped bothering with the faction recently though because NC on Connery are absolute garbage. I tend to get almost half the K/D when playing them because they're constantly getting outflanked from all sides in every battle, and they're too bad at redeployside to ensure that they aren't outpopped in every hex. Playing against NC, you also see a whole lot more awful players who are trivial to mow down. It's a constant struggle and it has nothing to do with inferior weaponry. NC Connery wins a pathetic 17.7% of alerts which is the lowest of any faction on any server. I can't take it anymore.

    It blows my damn mind that the Vanguard performs so poorly because I think that it absolutely the best MBT. My only explanation is that the people driving them are idiots, and also the design of the tank makes these idiots think that charging right in head-on is the correct thing to do, when they should be using it to flank like any successful tanker would. You may have to take a slightly longer route than a Magrider, but Vanguards are still super effective at flanking and can go into battle with another vehicle behind enemy lines with complete confidence that they will win, which is extraordinarily powerful. Meanwhile something like the Mag very clearly tells you that you need to flank, so more people actually do it and are unsurprisingly more effective on the whole.
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  5. Jubikus

    Yup good ole TR and our "DPS" soo much dakka that unless your barrel stuffed we have to roll too many COF dice good thing we have all that easily controllable horizontal shake.
    The Nc arsinal is easily the most well rounded one with plently of gems that many would consider Overpowered like the ravens and many just plain good things and not too many completely useless weapons.
    The VS seem to be a middleman with a really good weapon for many styles then a bunch of useless garbage like their faction specific sniper rifle.
    And lastly you have the TR with alot of standard looking bland weapons that preform well ok not many gems in the arsinal as many of the good weapons are dwarfed by their counterparts like the armistice tho good still isnt a cyclone ide say the only real gems in this arsinal is the Vulcan Harasser because the harasser can easily get into the Vulcans effective range and then the thing just rips into and the long distance locked down AP prowler as it can lay into vehicles from a decently safe distance and is also probibly the best AA in the game. but as far as infantry tho the pounders might be the closest to a gem we have as its good against infantry and vehicles but cant AV at range and the Assult rifles for the medic for they are as good as the other faction counterparts but have an extra 10 rounds which gives them a slight edge.
  6. Vargs

    Also claymores.
  7. ExarRazor

    nc? getting the short straw on faction balance?

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  8. RykerStruvian

    On the recommendations of some folks, I went through and listened to the VS/TR tracks for PS2. And I agree, some of the tracks are really awesome. I really like some of the 'extra' tracks too. Some of the VS stuff actually reminds me of Mass Effect...so major points there. Also, hahaha...TR Travel music has the PS1 title music.


  9. Devilllike

    The NC are the definition of Paper/Rock/SCISSORS/SHOTGUN
  10. IPLAYTF2

    nc underpowered threads are my favorite considering they have the largest number of incredible infantry weapons
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  11. Towie

    Well that used to be kinda true but the NC in general (including the Vanguard) seems to be going through a bit of a renaissance.

    You can check out the actual stats on the Oracle - http://ps2oraclestats.com/

    From a Kills-per-unique and Vehicle-kills per unique perspective, there's really not much in it these days. The Titan is still the best against air (always has been).

    Looking at MBT deaths, the Titan-150AP is now king of the hill, even beating the 'legendary' P2-120AP.

    When I play NC these days strange things happen - like - the squad leader actually talks and co-ordinates. I can get a gunner in my Vanguard more often than not.

    I always said that if the NC could get their act together, they'd be pretty brutal - well - that seems to be happening.
  12. Dgross

    Raven.
    The defense rests, your honor.
  13. DramaticExit

    Seems that the Titan AP does marginally better against other MBTs (4.94% of MBT deaths are attributed to the Titan AP, by comparison to 4.79% from the Prowler AP)...

    However, the Prowler AP accounts for 4.14% of Sundy deaths, compared to the Titan AP's 2.74%.

    Additionally, the Prowler AP is ahead in lightning kills, accounting for 4.91% of all dead lightnings, while the Titan AP gets 4.12% of them.


    While people might look at these figures and say "Oh, but they're not MBT versus MBT, so it doesn't count", this isn't insignificant. Some people argue that Sundies are "more capable tanks than the MBTs"... While that may or may not be true, they are definitely capable combat vehicles in addition to being the backbone of most attacks by keeping people spawning. Most attacks fail without the spawn points staying up.

    It's worth noting that the Magrider's AP gun is a little way behind in all regards.
  14. Towie

    Yep - agree with what you're saying - I just wanted to point out that the Vanguard is far from useless which seemed to be the intimation of previous posts. The P2-120AP had been top cannon (like forever) but the Titan is doing well too.

    The Magrider FPC is coming up some way behind both. It made me laugh that the original post said that Vanu has that 'incredibly maneuverable Hovertank'. Well yes it hovers and maneuvers well but not well enough to dodge a fast shell and the majority of Vanguard vs Magrider encounters will have a very predictable ending.

    I just wanted to point out that - the NC are far from the poor relatives that the OP seems to think...
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  15. WTSherman

    Here's my theory (probably shared by quite a few other people) on why it works out that way:

    For Lightnings, the Titan AP falls behind simply because Lightnings are fast, and more likely to flee a fight as soon as they take damage than MBTs are. The Prowler can chase fleeing Lightnings better (or lock down to nail them with high-velocity AP shells), so it tends to be better at killing Lightnings.

    For Sundies, those tend to be more durable than MBTs (either due to Blockade, or Deploy Shield), and tend to start receiving constant repairs as soon as they take damage. Either they're running in groups with repair sundies, or they're deployed and getting repaired by infantry. This means alpha damage is fairly useless against sundies, it'll just get repaired by the time the Vanguard finishes reloading, while DPS is king for tearing through the repairs the sundy is receiving. So the Prowler tends to be better at killing Sundies.

    MBTs aren't as durable as sundies, aren't as fast as Lightnings, and tend to not be receiving constant repairs. So an initial hit with a Titan AP will account for more of their health, they will likely stay damaged for the rest of the fight, and what speed advantage the other tanks do have might not necessarily allow them to get away before they run out of HP. So the Vanguard's high alpha and slightly improved armor juuuust barely manage to pull it ahead specifically MBT vs MBT.

    And on the Magrider, well the Saron is the Magrider's primary antitank weapon rather than its main gun. The VS also uses more HE than other factions, I suppose because unlike TR they still do 1000 splash per shell, and unlike NC they don't have a cripplingly slow reload. Plus the ability to strafe and climb cliffs is useful against infantry.

    Considering how important Sundies are to any push, and how irrelevant MBTs tend to be beyond killing sundies or using HE on infantry, the Prowler is probably the best all-around MBT right now. A 3% edge in MBT vs MBT simply doesn't make up for a 51% advantage in sundy-busting (calculated by (high-low)/low). The Magrider is harder to judge, partially because if it's fighting vehicles it's probably supported by Lancers (who will take kills from it, but also rather handily compensate for its lack of damage).
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  16. DramaticExit


    Oh absolutely, The NC are not in a bad place at all right now. But they're also not the overpowered monstrosities that some people here like to suggest. I guess we were both trying to find the middle ground, but doing so from opposite directions.
  17. SamReye

    NC has the largest range of weapon damage models in the game, with the 200 damage model small arms being ES to NC. They don't necessarily have issues with CQC, since the GD-7F is a Serpent with an adjusted recoil pattern (if I'm not mistaken, it's more controllable), ScatMAXes can be extremely powerful if employed properly, i.e. holding a building; I would argue that the Jackhammer is the only shotgun you need for your HA, unless you want a pump action, because it has the smallest COF paired with the tied-for-highest mag size. NC guns tend to be loud, in your face, and filled with raw power. Learn to compensate for a gun's quirks and recoil patterns and you'll quickly realize how fast you can drop TR/VS soldiers like me :D
  18. WTSherman

    Honestly, I think the "quirks" are actually a contributing factor to why NC underperforms. NC's stock weapons tend to be harder to use, and the players that are hurt most by this, newbies, tend to only have stock weapons.

    This has several small effects that add up. NC zergs lose some bite because the low-BR players who make up the bulk of most zergs aren't able to use their weapons to their full potential. NC newbies are more likely to quit before they become good/average because learning NC weapons is more frustrating, leading to high turnover and difficulty building a veteran pool. NC gets a reputation for being bad despite the number of bad players being roughly equal for all factions, because NC's reliance on headshots and recoil control punishes below-average players. So even though the players are equally bad, the NC ones struggle more because the learning curve is slightly steeper for them.

    Though of course, it could potentially be overcome I guess if we just accept "Okay, NC is hardmode. We've got to roll up our sleeves and go the extra mile to carry our newbies through those first 20 BRs so they can become real NC."
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  19. natowpnzor

    My honest opinion after palying this game alot, it the the TR's guns do too much damage for how many bullets they can land on you, and that the NC's guns have recoil that goes up, down, left ,right, and diagonals. I like the damage, but the recoil is a **** to work with. NC's guns also fire slower than any other factions, the GR-22 is one of the fastest but for whatever reason does the smallest damage, even though thier faction is supposed to have damage buffs. I think that Sony never had the balls to fix the balance and that Daybreak is just making it worse with the cost of weapons and stuff.
  20. natowpnzor

    Though of course, it could potentially be overcome I guess if we just accept "Okay, NC is hardmode. We've got to roll up our sleeves and go the extra mile to carry our newbies through those first 20 BRs so they can become real NC."[/quote] Teamkills........Teamkills everywhere!!!