[Suggestion] Balance gameplay of players (pros and noobs)

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by ElMasMonstruo, Oct 11, 2019 at 2:35 AM.

  1. ElMasMonstruo

    Hello,

    I'm going to tell you a story that happened to me yesterday.

    Yesterday I was playing this incredible game, and my roommates wanted to try it, so we played in turns, when one died it was up to the other.

    I thought it was curious and I was really struck by how incredibly bad they were, but not because they had never played an FPS game or anything like that, but because they didn't understand the game.

    With me by my side, I could explain all the basics of the game as they appeared, everything, classes, vehicles, maps, weapons, tricks to put on...

    Yet it was incredible, they just got more serious, more frustrated, more stressed, more pissed off, more angry… It's a game!! I've never seen this point of view from the outside but even I sometimes get that attitude.

    Next, I'm going to mention a series of points that I found curious and that I was seeing throughout the night, how I was thinking about how to solve all the problems I was encountering with my fellow players, and I just wanted them to like the game and in the end ended up being the opposite, they ended up hating it and giving them an incredible disgust.


    1º I found it curious the difference of abilities that there was, removing the improvements with CERTS and all that, only pure skills vs pure skills, there was no point of comparison, it was so absurd that I could win them alone against them (3), again and again eternally even giving them absurd improvements like, infinite ammunition, not to recharge, life x10 ... or more absurd things yet.

    I repeat, not because they were bad in FPS but because they didn't know what the hell they were doing. They didn't know the game and there was a whole world of separation between my gameplay and theirs, it was very difficult to distinguish enemies from allies, locate enemies in the mini-map and many more things ...


    2º It seemed absurdly curious to me that being new players, entering the game for the first time, what I felt was that they had to have some kind of protection, bonus, benefits, something that allows the conditions to be equal, something that makes a pro player vs noob player be on equal terms, but that's not the case, on the contrary, the ironic thing is that the pro player eats the noob player but even kills it with a blow if he wants.

    The pro has applied some improvements that have cost him to obtain but what they do is to the pro player, to have skill, to have knowledge, and even to have better equipment!! What the ****!! ******* absurd!!

    It seemed to me totally ironic, like, but if it should be totally the opposite, like, I imagined myself vs them and it's that you could give them all kinds of benefits or whatever, that I could do whatever I wanted with them.


    3º I imagined a new player entering the game and receiving some kind of bonus where you can match the conditions, I don't know anything, something that allows me or challenges me as an experienced player to have a fair and fun battle against someone who doesn't even have 2h in the game, but like...


    4º When I was thinking about the ridiculous point of view of the game referring to pro players vs noob players, and that I would have to have in order to equal conditions, it came to mind B.R.U.T.O., you already know it if you have ever played Fornite, is that, is what should have the game more or less, something that the pro player see and say is worth, to him and he is a good challenge, and the player noob enters with that protection for a while and then is removed.

    Although the problem of this its I imagine a pro player creating a new account to have those benefits or even the failure that I to play with my roommates in my account, being an experienced account could not let them play because we would return to the beginning, would have a devastating experience of play because they start with conditions too low for them.


    5º Then I thought that there should be something that differentiates players who have a series of high kills and players who do nothing but die and die and boom!,! but we have the K/D!!

    That's it! As your K/D is regulated your benefits /nerfs, I mean, the K/D base is 1 and your base statistics are those, if you go having a K/D greater you are applied a series of nerfs that make it more difficult that you can kill noobs because you have to work more, you have to be a challenge.

    The benefits/nerfs should not affect your gameplay itself, your way of playing is always the same, what this system has to offer is that you have to tune more and more and play in an increasingly professional way assuming continuously challenge yourself.

    Example, if you have a positive K/D, that your life is cut a % according to your K/D, that you have more difficulty to see enemies or to locate them in the map according to your K/D, to greater K/D because it is more difficult for you to continue fighting because you are tired or whatever it is, I know.

    And if you have a negative K/D because the opposite, your life increases a % of the negative that you have the K/D, makes it much easier for you to see enemies because you are highlighted more and more, the more bad you are, and so on ...


    6º And with this, I imagine myself with some nerfs adjusted to my gameplay, and my fellow players with benefits that allow them to have a pleasant gameplay just enter the game and then over time, when you get better you will also continue to like it because you will constantly continue to find that point, that touch, that magic, that challenge you have the game to continue being a crack.


    7º And to finish, I imagined this gameplay adjustment system also applied to the maps, in plan if a map has 100 NC players vs 50 Vanu players, apply the benefits/nerfs needed by player thinking also in each K/D of each player to be able to have a gameplay 100% adjusted on the map, this would be the ****!


    P.S.
    For me, this is what Planetside 2 needs right now, taking care of the new players without leaving the old ones aside, I've read the developers' notes and you want to implement a sanctuary zone and things like that don't make sense, a sanctuary zone for what? We already have the map to train while we wait for the queue, a sanctuary zone won't make this game bigger, it will if you take care of your players and offer them a ******* incredible game experience.


    Greetings
  2. InexoraVC

    ElMasMonstruo,
    you're absolutely wrong.
    You can't artifically match the conditions for newbie and veteran players. Despite the equipment, implants, weapon modules and so on veteran player will always kill newbie. Because he does understand the game mechanics. Newbie doesn't.
    Abilities nerfing based on K/D ratio is very very bad idea.
    First - it demotivates player to be effective. And if one has higher K/D he strongly disagrees to be nerfed.
    Second - it won't work in many cases. For example - me and my dauther (8yrs old) play using single account. My total K/D ratio is below 1. But I play since 2013 and my personal real K/D in infantry and vehicle combats can be much higher than 1. According to your idea I won't be nerfed and it can be very very frustrating for those who have been nerfed.
    Third - the general motivation to get a higher skills is to get an advantage in fights. A lot of players play to be better than others. If, for example, I meet absolutely newbie that can't move of shot correctly and I can't kill him because my weapon/health are nerfed what will i do ? Logout and uninstall . I don't think this scenario is acceptable for most players and devs.
    • Up x 1
  3. IVANPIDORVAN

    i really like what this game doesn't have a freaking matchmaking, cause if you can kill stuff you not gonna be forced to play against same badass players like you, at the same time if you one of the "bads" you still can try to kill this "unkillable full aurax HA" and can even succeed, no need to grow your internet peni... your "rating" or "MMR" or whatever it called. I am really sick and tired of rating race, meta gameplay and countless ammount of stat abuse including buying accounts with high rating. This game unforgiving to newbies, but does it hard? I think not, i think all games should be like this, i want to be wrecked by salty vets, becuase it make me stronger, but casual sofa warriors who play video games for 2 hours before they sleep disagree with me, they want their sorry a$$ protected from sealclubbing and this is sad.
  4. InexoraVC

    Ivanpidorvan, your nickname confuse me when you write you want to be wrecked by someone ^) It is a joke ))
    Seriously, I strongly agree with "This game unforgiving to newbies". But there are a lot of same examples in history of gaming. For example - quake and unreal tournament in multiplayer modes. They are also absolutely unforgiving.

    Planetside2 has very steep learning curve.
    But pain, deaths and suffering are worth the victory and skills.
    2 months ago I've started to learn how to fly ESF seriously. Despite I play PS2 for 6 years I haven't ever mastered flying ESF. I felt complete noob, but it pushed me to get skills and get better. Now I can either stay alive for long periods or even kill some enemies, and this makes the game fun and attractive for me. If I had not had to suffer I stayed a green noob as I was.
  5. Scroffel5

    The experience that new players have is also due to the experienced players. Take what happened yesterday, for instance.

    I was leading an attack on a base, and I was the only sundy. It was Hossin, so there was nowhere to really go to except to battles that people have to start. A few moments after I park and deploy, my teammates start to spawn in. We get like 12-24 against 2 guys. I said to them, 'Hey, we don't need this many forces here. We can take the rest of the bases around us. Someone get a sundy so I can leave with me.' An Infiltrator goes and hacks the terminal, which is right next to their spawn, so I decide to go back to my sundy and take it to the other base. I drive to the other base and start taking the point, and about 30 seconds later, the other base finishes. Soon after, everyone from that base comes to our base. I thank them for coming, and say that there are still other bases that need to be taken, and we can do it all at the same time. At that moment, defense spawns in. It was a 60%-40% fight, but we kept getting more players on our side. We ended up getting the base, after we destroyed their sundy. (I was hiding in a bush behind their sundy, but that isn't important.)

    We then go to the next base, but only a few of us from the previous fight are going. There we meet a level 7, whose name I forget. He rushed into battle without thinking much, and in the same way each time, so we assumed he was new. We kept on killing him. My guys started getting closer, but I told them 'No, don't get any closer. Its no fun for them which is no fun for us.' So they backed up and just maintained a perimeter. At this time, someone went to take the point. Nothing I can do about that. We were killing him back to back, since he was the only guy there. He wasn't having a good time, from what we could tell, but he kept on trying. Then, he got a level 69 to help him, who was super good. He was a Heavy, and I think he was running Adrenaline Shield, so he was killing us left and right. It took 5 of us ganging up on him to take him down. The level 7 and the level 69 were fighting together, which really improved the new player experience.

    These are just two sides of the story. We can either benefit new player experience or damage it, but its up to us to do that. We shouldn't have to make the experienced mad with new updates to benefit new players just because the old players screw up the game for them. I get it; no new players means game will lose players and die. At the same time, we have to make sure we don't kick the new players out of the game just because we want to win.

    In conclusion, what is more important: winning the fight, the war, the continent, or keeping the game alive?
  6. InexoraVC

    Keeping the game alive is the dev's goal. My goal is to have fun and win the continent. I really don't care about stats.
    To keep the new players devs should make game objective more attractive. For example increase continent rotation rate (why ~3 hours per continent, make 1), increase special events durations (free maxes, free aircrafts) - they are fun for newbies because the expensive stuff (450 nanites permax, or 450per liberator) is for free, and increase rewards for completion of game objectives. Make 400 certs for 1st place on continent, add reward for capturing the base in 3 min, add reward for securing the base in 1 min. And so on...

    P.S. summer event was very good in grinding certs with repairing sundie
  7. IVANPIDORVAN

    Every time when you get instagibbed by some salty vet with no real life, and you want to delete this game and never come back, ask yourself: why others stay?

    Noone born as pro, every salty vet been a noob one day. Endure.
  8. JibbaJabba

    It's no longer fixable but one of the core problems of this game is that it's free.

    If it were just $10... even $1 it would fix a great many issues.

    Being free nothing stops players from spinning up new accounts. That causes massive problems with banning cheaters of course. It also causes problems like this. You can't implement any sort of bonus for new players because it could be a veteran spinning up a new free toon.

    I think there are other things we could help noobs with.
    1. One of the complaints you mentioned, "Very difficult to distinguish enemi1es from allies..." - Yep. They need to change the common trim on the armor so it's more predominant and visible. Example...Pink camo was stupid but people paid for it so you can't yank it back. Expanding the non-pink parts is achievable though.
    2. Drastically increase the cert gain. The game is 6-7 years old. Nobody starting new wants to do the grind that we all did to get here. This also lets veterans more easily spin up alts to help with population troubles.
    3. Throttle back the headshot damage multiplier on full auto weapons. Us Vets massacre noobs with this mechanic. Even if they outplay us and get the drop we'll cut them down. Put a different reward in for getting those headshots. Assimilate and others are great examples of this.

    Ultimately though, this is planetside. It's not for the faint of heart. There is no matchmaking. The game is darwinistic as it gets. If you stand still as a silhouette in a window in other games you may get away from it. Not here. Crossing open terrain without running serpentine or in groups? Yeah. Planetside will punish you quick for subpar gameplay.

    If your friends can handle the *** kickings until they get better, the rewards are there... like no other game.
    • Up x 2
  9. DarkStarAnubis

    Very true.

    Unfortunately, this is the gaming equivalent of the pyramid business scheme (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme): when you enter you eat **** until the point you get good enough AND new players keep coming, replacing your position at the lowest rung of the ladder.

    Slowly you "git gud" and start to farm BR1-BR20 at relatively impunity and, as time goes by, you farm higher ranking characters.

    New players entering today are nothing more than moving target for a +BR100 with deep territory, movements, game mechanics, recoil, Cof, Rof and DMG knowledge and experience.

    Points is, there are less and less new players joining (much less remaining, retention is crap) and the few "recruits" may not have enough years to reach the point in which they will be able to reap those rewards.
  10. adamts01

    Basically what jibbajabba said.

    You even mentioned skill vs skill, yet you want to handicap one player? Huge mistake.

    Until your friends get better, their strength needs to be in numbers, which is something unique about PS2 that matchmaking games don't have. You can pick your fights and often your conditions. If tryhards show up, simply find a bigger fight where your side has a numbers advantage and those tryhards won't have as much if an impact.
  11. Scroffel5

    Ok so its not just me? I am like, why are automatic weapons kicking my butt? I am hitting all my shots of my semi auto weapons, maybe they aren't headshots every time, but they take me down super fast. Every weapon has its role to play, and weapons should have basic guidelines for balance. A high headshot multiplier on automatics? Yeah, no, especially if it is a fast firing, easy to control automatic.
  12. RRRIV

    1: this is simply untrue. a heavy sheild isnt "10X health", "infinite ammo" is a weapon trait held by the vanu, and there is no "no sheidl recharge" ability. what you are talking about are implants and only a few have a real direct impact on gameplay and combat situations. the 2nd part is just stating the obvious

    2: this is an MMOFPS. we dont have match making, we dont want match making, we dont need matchmaking. in the "open world", a new player will meet, quite often, a veteran player and get curbed stomped. what separates the wheat from the chaff is if the new player will learn what they did wrong and adjust/learn. PS2's learning style has always been trial by fire

    there is no "better equipment" after BR 10-15. The only things, and i repeat, only things that put a new player behind any vet at any level in terms of equipment is med kits, C4, and (if TR and VS) a bolty sniper. Thats it. The default weapons are some of the best in their class (T1 cycler and gauss saw for 2 examples)

    3:they do. a cert refund at BR15 so they arent stuck with redundant/useless things they got. like i said in point 1, the wheat will learn from their mistakes and this point in their character is what reflects that. Also, new characters used to not get implants and now they have a few basic and usefulls ones to start off.

    bonus: you are complaining against the natural skill gap between you and a new player. a Chess master has no challange facing someone new at chess even though the board is litteraly even

    4: bad solution.

    5: bad metric, bad solution.

    ex. the average Planetman accuracy is 33-35%. should we nerf infiltrator accuracy because of this? no

    K/D is not an accurate indicator of skill. if somone mains medic for a day, they will see that their KD is low AF because they are focusing on rezs and heals as well as combat, which leads the average player to be caught unaware of a planetman rounding a corner, even if they are BR 100(not saying that the BR100 would have the low KD. just pointing out some of the uncontrollable deaths some classes face more than others).

    6: look, im going to put it bluntly. the challenge from PS2 isnt from the 1 v 1s, its from the 1v1v1v1v1v1v1...s. when you are in a hallway and 5 planetmans round the corner at you, thats the challenge. when you are working at an AT tank, and you see infantry pop up on the radar, or see an armor column moving to you, how you respond and how effectively you do is the challenge.

    7: already have that with the faction balance que. wee dont need a skill balance que, thats rediculious.

    P.S. the new player experience has always been a problem and coming up with solutions/implementing them is tenuous at best. there is only so much hand holding that can be done. this game thrives on trial by fire, and removing that removes incentive to play over extended hours as well as removes one of the few remaining core elements of PS2.

    TL : DR OP confuses the MMOFPS style of game and trial by fire learning system inherent in an open world game with a flaw in its design and the solution proposed is artificial boosts based solely on K/D, which is a truly awful idea. However, their concern for the new player experience is appreciated.
  13. Skraggz

    TL;DR I suck I want stat boosts and huge perks to make up for it.

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