This issue has been ignored for too long. In PU2 (exactly two months ago) these were the patch notes regarding the Engineer's AV turrets. It is clear that the developers did not intend for these turrets to continue to work outside of render distance. Why? Because AV turrets (that do not render) are to vehicles as snipers (that do not render) are to infantry. It is the same way with AV turrets, except it is far more frustrating on the receiving end. An infantryman can respawn infinitely with little penalty. A sniper is limited by the range in which he can accurately get those kills as it becomes increasingly difficult until it is borderline impossible. A vehicle on the other hand can't not respawn infinitely. An AV turret user is, quite literally, laser accurate as far as he can see your vehicle. There are two prevailing arguments in favor of AV turrets in their current state. 1.) They require coordination to be a significant threat, and are therefore balanced. Simply because something utilizes coordination, it does not make it balanced. Coordination only makes something stronger. A ZOE MAX was strong by itself. A platoon full of ZOE MAXes with dedicated Engineers and Medics was practically unstoppable. A single AV turret is strong. It takes your full attention as a tanker to eliminate even up to render distance, and ignoring one can often equate to death if left unchecked. It is trivial to hit a retreating tank from behind for massive damage with an AV turret, but it is not trivial to take out one lone infantryman >200m whose sole purpose is to continuously place AV turrets and hit you when you're not staring at him. And you know what? I can deal with that. That isn't the problem here. Multiple AV turrets out of render distance are easy, no cost, little coordination, vehicle-snipers. I've been part of them myself. It equates to "let's go over here, I'll place a beacon... okay see that Prowler? Everyone target him. The Sundy next. Get that Lightning. There's a hovering Lib, take that out. Okay, we've got two more Prowlers to the SE focus those." Little risk, no cost, easy to do, high reward. You do not need to worry about retaliation. The tanks can not hit you, their snipers can not help the tanks, and nobody is having fun. 2.) They can easily be shut down by aircraft, and are therefore balanced. This makes many assumptions. First, that the aircraft are coordinated with the ground forces. Second, that their is no AA to prevent this. Third, that they won't simply respawn with a beacon 15s later or won't simply come back again at a different spot. Fourth, that the air can kill the Engineers before they accomplish their mission in the first place (annihilating a high number of the defenseless vehicles). And fifth, probably the most important, is the assumption that simply because something has a counter it is balanced. That is a very limited approach to balance that takes nothing into account beyond whether it has a 100% success rate or not. I really shouldn't need to explain this much more. This isn't rock/paper/scissors. --------------- @SOE I have two questions for you. 1.) Are you aware that these turrets can still easily be used out of their render distance? 2.) If yes, why has this not been fixed?
They are not fine BEGIN POSTING AGAIN, see? I can be a troll too, now get back to your cave before you turn into stone. I agree, every single update they say they fixed AV turret rendering distance, yet they can see you but you can't see them. A single turret per se is not a high threat, but they are persistent, they have infinite ammo and they do great in numbers, I feel damage is fair, hell, maybe even the unlimited ammo, but the range is insane, it's hard enough tho hit a turret 400m away, but it's harder to hit an invisible one using their rockets as a guide to guess the position, and, as devs stated many times, they are not working as intended.
it's also much easier to hit targets with the AV turret at near-max range than it is to headshot infantry with a sniper rifle at near-max range. I'm less concerned about whether they're perfectly 'balanced' or whatever than I am about how much fun they are to use and fight against, which is to say not at all. They're boring to use and even worse to fight against, since most of the time you can't see the turret gunner and just have to retreat to a position that keeps you out of LoS.
The problem is he is asking the wrong questions. @SOE 1.) Has the rate of AV MANA turrets being bought in your store slowed to the point that it can now be properly balanced? 2.) If not when can we expect that to happen?
I really dont like them that much eiter,but they are the only way to break huge tankzergs.And I sure dont want to go back to the days where mass tank beat everything and was pretty much unstopable.
They are fine because they need the range to do anything. Once a tank can see them you can one shot them easily. They defiantly don't stop a tank from doing really well on the battle field in most cases. If the enemy setups a nest in a good spot then your army needs to find a while to deal way them. Snipers, planes ect ect. The OPs kill board https://players.planetside2.com/#!/5428021759076345697/killboard My kill board https://players.planetside2.com/#!/5428010618040891665/killboard Tanks are fine.
What are you talking about Alarox? The AV turret has been working as intended for roughly 9 MONTHS. What is there to even complain about? It's not like they cost 0 resources, can hit you from over 600 meters away while being unrendered, do roughly a Decimator rocket worth of damage, are laser guided, have unlimited ammo, and have a broken hit box which makes it hard to snipe the engineer. I mean that would be ridiculously broken, and make for horrible vehicle counter play. Don't take my word for it though, here are some nice videos showing the AV working as intended, and I mean after so many months of them functioning this way why would you assume anything less...
Another struggling tanks driver with kill boards like this 20+ kdr. Yes there are some spots you may need other units to help out. Doesn't make tanks useless. If you choice to ONLY use one unit in the whole game there are times when things will not be in your favor. https://players.planetside2.com/#!/5428010618040867281/killboar
Another person who defends a broken weapon which can kill a tank from over 600 meters away while being invisible, invincible, while having unlimited ammo, and having unlimited respawns at the low price of 0 resources. Feel free to keep defending the AV turret as being balanced while using my Tanker KDR as a legitimate reason to invalidate my claims though.
These days it feels like the dynamic render distance is way too aggressive on MANA turrets, I now often can perfectly see the missile being fired while the thing itself is completely invisible.
I am sorry if you can't succeeded in a tank in the current state of the game, You are a bad player. AV turrets are a direct long range counter to tanks. They are required so armies that have been drain of resources usually the faction with 24 pop can organize A defensive. There weakness is that in order to be used effectually you are a sitting duck to ANY thing in the game. Like tank drivers always say this is combined arms game, Sometimes your unit is not the correct counter.
Get out of your tank and get a sniper rifle, Get a plane. Get a liberator. Your just crying about something that is made to counter you. And it can ONLY do that at long range. or are you going to tell me you can't one shot them from 200m??? I didn't use just yours, I used mine, the op and yours, We all have great kill boards it's not hard.
Another ad hominem+secundum quid+non sequitur. You can't defend an unintended feature, if devs said: "This drops its max range to match the AV turret’s render distance" But that's not true, because turrets are still invisible and can still hit you from outside render distance, then they made a mistake, and they need to fix it.
Yes because clearly that was the whole post. There are tons of effect counters. The same **** happens when you are shooting planes with bursters. Are we reducing their range now as well because planes can't always see them because of the same issue?? It's a video game and there are limitations when the army sizes get to big. There will always be rendering issues because of that
If my gunner was a sniper and got out of my tank he could do nothing to help me because the AV turret would be unrendered for him as well. Spending resources to pull a plane to go way back behind enemy lines where you can get shot down to take out one person, which can immediately be back their within a minute for 0 resources, is a horrible tactic. I'm assuming you know this. Of course the AV turret can only kill you in like it is in the following videos at long range, that's when it doesn't render, and I never claimed I couldn't hit one at 200 meters. My complaint is when I can't hit them all while it's unrendered. Your logic is flawed, and it's very easy to prove it as flawed. By the way the AV turret can negate it's weakness of being a sitting duck by firing outside of render range and thus being invincible/invisible.
