Automatic Scout Rifles - Update, Please

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by SpeckEye, May 30, 2018.

  1. SpeckEye

    Currently the Automatic Scout Rifles (referred to from here as ASR's), as Iridar says,
    Proposed Changes

    I think these weapons could see an update in two departments,

    1) Ammo Attachments
    Please allow Automatic Scout Rifles to have the following choices:
    -Soft Point Ammunition
    -High Velocity Ammunition
    -Larger Magazine Size

    2) ADS Move Speed
    Please change from 0.5 to 0.75

    Confused ASRs are Confused

    ASRs are confused. The damage drop off lends itself to a solid mid-range weapon. The velocity, however, is poor and, for the sorry fellow who puts on a silencer, kiss velocity goodbye. When comparing ASRs vs. Assault Rifles (ARs from here on) , ammo per magazine is 40% smaller in the case of TR and 20% smaller for VS and NC which does not lend itself as a solid mid-range weapon nor does it reflect TRs Empire flavor. Coupled with low velocity, the damage drop off doesn't compensate leaving the gun frustrating at mid-range.
    Neither is it a CQC rifle as the hip accuracy is 3.5 while standing and moving while the ARs listed below are 2.5 at most (2.25 for TR and NC). Add in the lower rate of fire and odds are good that a 1v1 match will leave the infiltrator dead in CQC.

    Effectively, the closest cousin to the ASR is the AR. When compared with ARs that are given the niche for mid-range, the ASR literally falls short. Neither is it CQC with poor hip fire and rate of fire. Throw in a sad magazine size that will allow ~2 engagements and the ASR is left begging, if nothing else, for some ammo attachments.

    Updating the ammo attachments allows the player to decide on having more ammo or if they want to tip the weapon more toward mid-range or close-mid range. Having an improved ADS allows the player to use this weapon on the move as the AR cousins are able to do.
    ASRs Compared to ARs

    Currently ASR's have lower:
    -Rate of fire
    -ADS (except VS AR)

    (0.5 ADS)
    Damage: 143 @ 10m - 125 @ 60m
    Rate of Fire: 652 RPM
    Velocity: 530 m/s
    Ammo: 24/240
    Reload Time: 2 sec/2.64 sec
    Unlock Cost: 650 certs/499 DB Cash
    Assault Rifles with similar distance in mind to ASR's

    TR - TAR
    (0.75 ADS)
    Damage: 143 @ 10m - 100 @ 60m
    Rate of Fire: 800 RPM
    Velocity: 570 m/s
    Ammo: 40/240
    Reload Time: 2.97 sec/4.11 sec
    Unlock Cost: 650 certs/499 DB Cash

    Carnage AR
    (0.75 ADS)
    Damage: 143 @ 10m - 112 @ 60m
    Rate of Fire: 750 RPM
    Velocity: 580 m/s
    Ammo: 30/210
    Reload Time: 2.285 sec/2.6 sec
    Unlock Cost: 650 certs/499 DB Cash

    Terminus VX-9
    (0.5 ADS)
    Damage: 143 @ 10m - 112 @ 60m
    Rate of Fire: 769 RPM
    Velocity: 580 m/s
    Ammo: 30/210
    Reload Time: 1.95 sec/2.65 sec
    Unlock Cost: 1000 certs/699 DB Cash
  2. Sprant Flere-Imsaho

    "ADS move speed" Do you mean movement sensitivity when ADS? That's just a slider you can change at any time in the game settings.
  3. SpeckEye

    I'm talking about a players speed of movement when aiming down sights. Most guns cut it in half (0.5) but in some cases, it's 0.75 or 3/4 of your regular movement speed.
  4. Sazukata

    ASRs should be bad, they're on the class with cloaking.

    That said, they're not fun to use and have weird stats for the role they're supposed to fulfill. 0.75 ADS speed, access to HVA & SPA, and less recoil wouldn't hurt. It needs to keep low DPS and mag size, though.
    • Up x 2
  5. Jbeasty

    I agree, the current ASRs we have are very ****** and to compensate it would have been great if they gave them HIGH base velocity (~670) + HVA to specialize in using a suppressor at medium ranges, or extended ranges without. Everything else can remain the same imo. The small mag size, moderate FR, moderate min damage, average recoil would all act accordingly.

    They literally have no place when SMGs outclass them in CQC and things like the vandal/shadow/hsr/impetus/ksr/etc. exist for any other range.
  6. SpeckEye

    As you say, since they're on infil, I'm not looking for anything amazing. Something in the way of, at least, options for ammo and 0.75 ADS would be great.

    With the right kind of ammo attachments and ADS change, the SOAS could be more flexible in either mid or mid-short ranges. As it is now. it can't do either.
  7. adamts01

    This is your mistake. Infils don't have ARs or Carbines for a reason.

    I'm not saying ASRs couldn't use a little work, especially in the accuracy department, but they absolutely shouldn't compete with ARs in versatility.
    • Up x 2
  8. SpeckEye

    Seeing as how the ASRs are similar to the ARs I listed above in the following ways:

    -damage per bullet
    -bullet velocity (nearly)
    -equip time
    -ammo capacity (worse for ASRs)
    -reload time
    -CoF (in all stances/movements)
    -and recoil

    I would say the comparison is a pretty safe one.

    Even so, I'm not asking that the ASR actually become an AR. With ammo attachments and 0.75 ADS, it would certainly make it much more competitive and allow more flexibility. It allows a player to choose to be better at distance or better at close-mid depending on the ammo type chosen (soft-point | high-velocity | larger magazine).
  9. Halkesh

    Buff ASR so they'll get their own niche instead of a buff to make them on part with CQC AR.

    Suggested niche : lingering infiltration.
    -add a built-in silencer without changing the weapons stats. Make NC and TR silencer as quiet as Artemis (VS ASR).
    -in addition to the weapon's current large ammo pool, ASR's ammo pool refill one clip every 90 sec, as if you had ammo printer equipped.
    -add a built-in alternate fire that let you shot recon bolt that use charging mechanic : the longer you charge, the longer the bolt will exist and the more ammo you will use.

    New attachments that fit with the niche :
    -Decoy (ammo) throw decoy grenade with the alternate fire, but disable the alternate fire that throw recon bolts.
    -Extra nanite pool (barrel) your cloaking ability don't deply over time while you're immobile. (unlike stalker cloak it won't recharge while immobile), reduce the ADS speed to X0,33 and disable the auto refilling ammo pool.
  10. That_One_Kane_Guy

    Honestly if they did nothing more than to make all three Auto Scouts integrally suppressed with no penalty to the stats they have now I think that would be enough to make them more desirable. I would still love to see a little faction flavor between them, though. Something would be nice, even if it's small and stupid like what the directive BRs got.
    • Up x 4
  11. Jbeasty

    Similar to my idea, but I thought that might make them TOO desirable...530 m/s suppressed with no min/max distance negatives would be hawt.
  12. That_One_Kane_Guy

    Couldn't hurt to push them the other way for a change, it's not like you see many infils running them anyways. I barely see any with the Tomoe and most consider that a straight upgrade from the ASRs.
  13. Halkesh

    Considering it's a weapons with low DPS, medium accuracy and (very) low damage per magazine, I don't think putting a silencer on it without lowering the damage range or the muzzle velocity will suddently make it an OP weapons.
    But it will certainly make it an good weapon if you wish to play with a silenced primary that have more range than the MKV SMG.

    I agree that it will be enough to give them the same niche as MKV supressed, except it has less damage per magazine and is not a close range weapon.
    But I still think NC and TR ASR silenced sound should be reduced to the same level as VS's Artemis (and I say this as a VS).

    As an extra, I think it could be cool if ammo belt offer 2 clip per rank for ASR, instead of 1 per rank : these weapon feature larger than usual ammo pool but due to lower ammo per mag, it make ammo belt an even more poor option than usual. (larger ammo pool is probably the only feature this weapons have currently).
  14. That_One_Kane_Guy

    As opposed to removing the differences between them, I'd rather they change the TR and NC rifles to give them a similar "thing" to the silent VS scout. Maybe have them "jive" better with certain attachments like the Artemis does with the suppressor. Doesn't even have to be that much but an effort to make them more than re-skins would be nice.
    • Up x 1
  15. Jbeasty

    Im all for it, if they did it. But the range would be quite considerable and it would be the highest velocity suppressed weapon by far I believe.

    However, imo, suppressors **** weapons too much to begin with. I hardly see anyone using them when it just works much better to stay further away with a standard range loadout by comparison. -35-50% (most are -40) velocity is pretty absurd on top of the extra damage dropoff and only a handful of weapons actually do well with them. T5amc, torq9, bull, rhino being some of the best examples. Would like a quality/balance pass on suppressors as well. The nanoweave meta makes suppressors especially painful to use...
    • Up x 1
  16. Halkesh

    Considering the silencer will be built-in, it will end in a situation were VS dosn't have to pay cert to get their jived attachment while NC & TR have to.
    But outside of this, I like the idea : instead of completely different ES weapon, just give ES attachment to copy-paste weapons, like it's the case with the new BR.

    That's basically my point on giving them a niche role : ASR will stay bad when compared to non-silenced weapons, but if you want a silenced weapon it will be one of the best choices, if not the best.

    I agree that more often than not, silencer don't worth, but I think it's a good thing for the game to have silencer everywhere : see what happens to flash supressor after its rework : now everyone use it by default, even when it's not that useful (during the day at close range).
    When flash supressor used to increase bloom per shot, people used it only when it was useful (during night). And I think that was a good thing.
  17. Lee Weldon

    It's funny that people feel this way because I was just about to buy the AF-18 stalker and I think it looks like a solid weapon for when I'm too lazy to land all headshots with my sniper rifle. Not speaking from a lot of experience here but I would recommend this to any new player who wants to try infiltrator but cannot use sniper rifles well and while I like the SAS-R I actually think the AF-18 stalker can be more forgiving if you misread someones strafing pattern and they are able to pick you off very quickly, probably the more advanced players that are better at countering snipers. On paper the bolt action sniper rifles to me are far better but what people don't realise at all is that it's not the easiest thing in the world, these weapons are far from hit scan.

    To make this more clear as to what I'm trying to say is that SAS-R with 500 muzzle velocity trying to take out a target 70 meters away well... versus a AF-Stalker 550 muzzle velocity in its respective ranges a little closer to the target like 50 meters away is respectively 2/3 the travel time. So the profile for this weapon is actually fine at what it does, the surprise element of being cloaked can often give you a bonus 0.2 seconds of shooting so pretty much negates any weaknesses it has over assault rifles and carbines. I also think that infil play is fairly balanced because sensor darts are probably just as supportive as a medic who can revive targets. Vision is very important. That and bouncing bettys are insane for their free kills.

    I've said this in previous threads but I think the SMG's are not very good even the cyclone because you're visible when cloaked even in 20 meters from the target to the very experienced player who is looking to spot you and you're probably invisible to the opponent most of the time at 40 meters out, I know this kind of sounds like infiltrator basics 101 but people underestimate the edge it can give your opponent in the time it takes to reveal and the noise it makes practically negates any use of SMG infiltrator play (maybe if deep operative was changed so that instead of making you slightly more invisible it instead made uncloaking silent I think this would be cool).
  18. pnkdth

    I'd like them to solidify them as pure mid range weapons.

    Buff to 600m/s + increase recoil recovery (making it a very attractive burst weapon). Without actually increasing TTK, or indeed any aspect of CQC combat, you're encouraging the infiltrator to fight at mid range (where opponents can fight back with better weapons) and approaching precision gameplay in a different way than the Tomoe.

    Then as a nice little touch, each hit sends a 5 meter radar ping around the target.
  19. That_One_Kane_Guy

    Actually suppressors are pretty tame in most games considering what they could be. What most people don't realize is that the ballistic penalty of equipping a suppressor is not due to the suppressor itself but the ammunition. Sure you can shoot a normal load with a suppressed weapon and get decent velocity but breaking the sound barrier every time you pull the trigger isn't exactly covert :)
    I can shoot a .300 with hot loads at 640 m/s but if I load subsonics I won't even break 300. That's with a real firearm. To put that in perspective if you take your average carbine in PS2 and slap a can on it you're still going to be breaking ~310 m/s and in some cases pushing 370 m/s. Your T5 AMC? That guy's gonna be shooting ~30 m/s over supersonic. I'd say we're getting off pretty good.

    That is a good point and I like this idea. The copy paste weapons are kind of a pet peeve for me so anything to add a bit of flavor gets my vote. My only gripe with the ES attachments is when they start becoming a must-have which adds additional cost to the weapon, rather than having the weapon be unique to begin with with the options to specialize.
  20. ShotMeTender

    The only sensed way to make those rifles work is allowing their use on stalker cloak, until then, you can imagine 1 milion ways to rebuff them, non of those ways will ever work thou...
    Just think about having a 10 sec cloak and having youself standing near an Heavy what would you do with a so buffed scout?? Nothing, just landing some few damage before been sent to respawn....
    Buffing scout rifles won't making them more role sensed at all, allowing them on a stalker maybe removing everything else on the setup (sensors,mines,Kits ecc...) as a downside would be much more interesting, and above all much more role sensed...